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Around A Whopping $3.0 Billion Worth Of Animals Sacrificed On Eid Al-Adha In Pakistan This Year.

Mentee

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Again - I am not debating expensive animals due to market conditions, nor the farz of sacrifice. But rather the idea of spending millions on expensive and display animals versus the spend of that money on better placed activities

Sir g ap ko kia ho gia hai? No law can force the super rich to pull a few millions out of his pocket and hand it over to the down trodden . The poor might not even exist in their every one eats cake world.


Even if he do it for show and pomp and consider it a cultural obligation atleast this practice still is causing him to spend a sum of his finances to satisfy his ego which eventually gonna add monetary value to the mainstream -------.
 

Salza

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how? can you please break it down?
them cattle barons/dons are poor?
Its not ONLY restricted to cattle barons etc but there is whole eco system of meat industry from cattle dwellers to butchers, from butchers to grain/food walas, animal transport walas, rich people buy more auxillary meat items such as masalas, more iron/steel is produced in the form of knives, more house keeping staff are employed with over time money, tents are produced and used more,bbq stuff and more refrigertors/ freezers are used and sold etc etc. With all this generation of money and activity - helps on poor not the one who is buying Rs 5 lacs animal.
 

Dalit

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This statement reminded me of the following video. Pakistanis spend a lot more money on entertainment but people rarely bring up poverty to discourage that, it is always religious matters people object to.
You and I know that libturds have an agenda. They are anti-religion by definition. These people just need an excuse to bash anything religious. The new theme is Qurbani. They want to make it controversial.

LOL at the notion that Qurbani money should be invested in other areas. There are tons and tons of things where Pakistanis waste their money on. The only thing we can think of saving money is during Eid ul Adha.
 

Rana4pak

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We need some kind of Islamic legislation that allows people to pay money to the poor instead of sacrificing animals.

Imagine $3b dollars put towards poverty every year - every poor child will be fed, educated and provided healthcare for the whole year rather than a parcel of meat that will last a week.
That is called zaqat
 

HRK

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There are tons and tons of things where Pakistanis waste their money on.
Just to make this point clear just see the below attached table
258620.png

Anyone who have little knowledge of import export or have experience related to trade as banker or custom officer know this fact that more then 50%-60% of total demand of tea in Pakistan is meet through informal channels like smuggling via Afghan transit trade or through smuggling from Iran, the rest of the demand is meet by importing tea from formal channel but it is imported by using methods of under declaration or under invoicing.

The table table which is showing the import figure of approximately $ 590 million is in reality is around $ +1billion, but no one feel pain for this unnecessary import bill and advocate that we should give this $ 1 billion to poor people in charity.
 
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Dalit

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Just to make this point clear just see the below attached table
View attachment 766640
Anyone who have little knowledge of import export or have experience related to trade as banker or custom officer know this fact that more then 50%-60% of total demand of tea in Pakistan is meet through informal channels like smuggling via Afghan transit trade or through smuggling from Iran, the rest of the demand is meet by importing tea from formal channel but it is imported by using methods of under declaration or under invoicing.

The table table which is showing the import figure of approximately $ 590 million is in reality is around $ +1billion, but no one feel pain for this unnecessary import bill and advocate that we should give this $ 1 billion to poor people in charity.
What about this one?


 

Verve

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A lot of kneejerk reactions to my early post. Firstly, I am not inventing new rules for Islam, I am asking the learned authorities to apply ijtehad and issue new guidance / legislation. Islam has been interpreted according to the needs of the time. The suspension of certain rules during Umar RA's time is a well known example.
What school/sect do you belong to? Above nonsense and lies are typical of the schools/sects.

Do you do any of the bolded parts as part of a religious ritual?

“You shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and properties and in your personal selves, and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you (Jews and Christians) and from those who ascribe partners to Allah, but if you persevere patiently, and become Al-Muttaqun (the pious) then verily, that will be a determining factor in all affairs, and that is from the great matters, [which you must hold on with all your efforts]

So if it comes to wealth, for which nothing prohibits use and display of, there is also responsibility with it. For that purpose Zakat does exist and its likely that the man sacrificing a 2 million animal may be giving 30 million in alms.. but does that still justify the 2 million import?
Sure, leave it to Allah and you should - just don’t paint it as the most prudent and welfare ridden choice.
I always ask The Almighty for a modest yet comfortable and peaceful life but I am not a money chaser. I buy what I need but best quality I can afford that lasts years instead of buying a lot of stuff regularly with short lifespan. My dad has nearly 50 years old gransons or loakes shoes in very good condition that he still wears - manufacturer even asked for these to be donated for display in their museum. I've got a few pairs of gransons that are over 15 years old now - it doesn't matter to me wearing these on multiple functions and occasions over these years. Sure there are certain luxuries one buys that one doesn't need and I don't see any harm in fulfilling the wishes once in a while. We do qurbani like any other regular family, no exotic breeds etc. But we give a lot in charity without disclosing where we can and avoid waste. Goal is not to be arrogant (as arrogant shall not enter Jannah) and balanced - enjoy what Allah has given and spend in Allah's way as well.

Yes we all will be tested by many things including wealth, children, wives etc - how we do in these tests is up to us but government legislating on one's spending and waste? Discussion is about legislating on such acts. I personally do not agree with this excessive spending on qurbani animals but I also do not agree with a legislation to curb it as only Allah knows the niyat.

Kindly answer below.

Examples you are giving re niyat end up adversely impacting others. Explain how buying an expensive animal for sacrifice hurts, causes inconvenience or inflicts damage on any other person? How are YOU adversely affected by such an act?
 
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SQ8

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Sir g ap ko kia ho gia hai? No law can force the super rich to pull a few millions out of his pocket and hand it over to the down trodden . The poor might not even exist in their every one eats cake world.


Even if he do it for show and pomp and consider it a cultural obligation atleast this practice still is causing him to spend a sum of his finances to satisfy his ego which eventually gonna add monetary value to the mainstream -------.
Bhai meray - when you can discourage the import of expensive cars by high duties, you can definitely do the same for animals. Again, I am not discouraging spending millions on Qurbani - if you have the ability do so you should. But rather that it be spent to benefit more people.
 

SQ8

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@Verve PDF seems broken and wont let me quote .. please see above and that I didn’t specify introduce the idea of legislation in the thread but discouragement. Much as one should discourage spending millions on marriages regardless of the ability and niyat. I am convinced by arguments here that a law isn’t the way to go, but am also not going to agree that just because it is a practice that is ultimately defined between human and Allah much as Namaz is - I cannot be eunuch’ed to not feel that with such wealth in the country readily available it is such a waste to spend excessively it on animals for pomp and show instead of other causes. It doesn’t take away that it also shouldn’t be the same disgust if the guy buys a 5crore LX570 in Pakistan… but that was not done in Allah’s name. Nobody should suggest that we should stick to chickens for Qurbani.. it is practice to try and offer the best animal that you can afford easily, but where is that fine line between a good animal and an excessive one?
 

SQ8

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Just to make this point clear just see the below attached table
View attachment 766640
Anyone who have little knowledge of import export or have experience related to trade as banker or custom officer know this fact that more then 50%-60% of total demand of tea in Pakistan is meet through informal channels like smuggling via Afghan transit trade or through smuggling from Iran, the rest of the demand is meet by importing tea from formal channel but it is imported by using methods of under declaration or under invoicing.

The table table which is showing the import figure of approximately $ 590 million is in reality is around $ +1billion, but no one feel pain for this unnecessary import bill and advocate that we should give this $ 1 billion to poor people in charity.
I think a thread should discuss this as well?
What is forcing tea import, Or cereal import ,Or phone import besides brand power?

I bought myself an imported car in Pakistan versus my friend buying a local assembly - this was 2010.Mine was 2 years old already when I bought it and his was brand new.. his was in the shop 2 weeks from purchase and he sold it in less than a year. So basically Pakistani quality has always been an issue - why hasn’t it been remedied and why haven’t consumers made a concerted effort to ask for better(it seems they are finally in the cities anyway) .. and if they say they are powerless to a mafia then frankly they don’t want to make the effort as a collective as those that want quality will find ways to procure it in Pakistan too.

Off topic discussion and it may have less of an impact on sacrificial animal quality(or would it?).. but it points to wider malaise in terms of awareness and apathy in the society as well. People who don’t know their rights and how to ask wont ask.
 

HRK

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I think a thread should discuss this as well?
What is forcing tea import, Or cereal import ,Or phone import besides brand power?

I bought myself an imported car in Pakistan versus my friend buying a local assembly - this was 2010.Mine was 2 years old already when I bought it and his was brand new.. his was in the shop 2 weeks from purchase and he sold it in less than a year. So basically Pakistani quality has always been an issue - why hasn’t it been remedied and why haven’t consumers made a concerted effort to ask for better(it seems they are finally in the cities anyway) .. and if they say they are powerless to a mafia then frankly they don’t want to make the effort as a collective as those that want quality will find ways to procure it in Pakistan too.

Off topic discussion and it may have less of an impact on sacrificial animal quality(or would it?).. but it points to wider malaise in terms of awareness and apathy in the society as well. People who don’t know their rights and how to ask wont ask.
Yes it will be an off-topic discussion therefore I would only say imports related to different industries and consumer segments have different reasons .... For example our auto Industry in past was facing Oligopoly situation .... but due to new entrants in Indutry now there is hope that we may soon come out of this situation.

So in short its a wide subject that need knowledge and understanding about different industries
 
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Verve

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@Verve PDF seems broken and wont let me quote .. please see above and that I didn’t specify introduce the idea of legislation in the thread but discouragement. Much as one should discourage spending millions on marriages regardless of the ability and niyat. I am convinced by arguments here that a law isn’t the way to go, but am also not going to agree that just because it is a practice that is ultimately defined between human and Allah much as Namaz is - I cannot be eunuch’ed to not feel that with such wealth in the country readily available it is such a waste to spend excessively it on animals for pomp and show instead of other causes. It doesn’t take away that it also shouldn’t be the same disgust if the guy buys a 5crore LX570 in Pakistan… but that was not done in Allah’s name. Nobody should suggest that we should stick to chickens for Qurbani.. it is practice to try and offer the best animal that you can afford easily, but where is that fine line between a good animal and an excessive one?
I agree such practices should be discouraged. You may recall clips on TV in 80's, one particular one about not blocking by parking behind others cars and another on driving slowly through standing water to avoid splashing at pedestrians. We need long social re-engineering programs by the government that have been completely missing for decades now. Excessive spending of all kind should be discouraged via such programs.
 

xyxmt

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We need some kind of Islamic legislation that allows people to pay money to the poor instead of sacrificing animals.

Imagine $3b dollars put towards poverty every year - every poor child will be fed, educated and provided healthcare for the whole year rather than a parcel of meat that will last a week.
Well Mr. Simpleton economist, This 3 billion might have created 6 billion worth of economic activity.
with you simple economic wisdom we should also put legislation to stop fasting and celeberating Eid and give that money to poor.
 

Goritoes

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And here comes the defensive rants and assumptions that slowly denigrate to frothing attacks and all the teachings of Islam and values unravel right then. Yes, the excessive spends on iphones, european vacations and gucci bags are all excesses that could have been focused more on charity than any Qurbani animal could be - but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things to improve everywhere and more importantly, it doesn’t mean only the rich ignore giving money to the mosque to install something.

Gaslighting isn’t a good practice in general.
Why are they rant, but you do a lot for Islam right? why do you worry mian shahb, I bet you are from the family of those who liberated the Byzantine empire and Persia... Qurbani is essential by any Fard of a family who has a legitimate income, and can afford it similar to that of hajj. My shot was for those rich who live in millions of PKR house, drive expensive cars but they have issues in spending a dime in charity, funny who comes to lecture us and other Muslims today :D


Here is some of the hadith of the Prophet about Qurbani, even though he hardly have enough to go around but he does manage to find 1 and sometimes 2 ram for Qurbani. Now Please don't claim that even he was wrong and you are right.
 
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TNT

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A lot of kneejerk reactions to my early post. Firstly, I am not inventing new rules for Islam, I am asking the learned authorities to apply ijtehad and issue new guidance / legislation. Islam has been interpreted according to the needs of the time. The suspension of certain rules during Umar RA's time is a well known example.

Secondly, everyone saying it's 3b of business seems to forget that meat is consumed in prodigious quantities in Pakistan and it's one of your biggest exports. The animals will not go wasted, they will be sold regardless.
And yet u failed to reply to any single one. Just admit it that u uttered BS big time and should avoid talking abt things that u have no idea about.
 

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