What's new

Army's Combat Swarm Drones Fly In Public For First Time

In arduis fidelis

FULL MEMBER
Jul 4, 2014
1,064
3
1,622
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Controlled detonations or not, cheap dji copies or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is Indian high command saw the effectiveness of non conventional weaponry against the conventional war machine during recent conflicts and decided to replicate it while our powers that be closed their senses and are waiting for it to pass like a bad nightmare bcz accepting it would mean giving centre stage to branches which uptill now were mere meant for PR stunts and losing importance. I am afraid only thing that will wake up these 80s artifacts is a 27 Feb type embarrassment.
 

Ahmet Pasha

BANNED
May 23, 2017
7,998
-5
7,875
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Controlled detonations or not, cheap dji copies or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is Indian high command saw the effectiveness of non conventional weaponry against the conventional war machine during recent conflicts and decided to replicate it while our powers that be closed their senses and are waiting for it to pass like a bad nightmare bcz accepting it would mean giving centre stage to branches which uptill now were mere meant for PR stunts and losing importance. I am afraid only thing that will wake up these 80s artifacts is a 27 Feb type embarrassment.
Ye baat to hai
 

PanzerKiel

MILITARY PROFESSIONAL
Dec 5, 2006
2,246
136
12,156
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Controlled detonations or not, cheap dji copies or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is Indian high command saw the effectiveness of non conventional weaponry against the conventional war machine during recent conflicts and decided to replicate it while our powers that be closed their senses and are waiting for it to pass like a bad nightmare bcz accepting it would mean giving centre stage to branches which uptill now were mere meant for PR stunts and losing importance. I am afraid only thing that will wake up these 80s artifacts is a 27 Feb type embarrassment.
Wait for the upcoming 23 March parade..... I hope this parade happens, and I already hope that those things which I've got in my mind are displayed during this parade, they're still under consideration.... Would be really awesome.... Let's see.
 

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,273
50
3,534
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Wait for the upcoming 23 March parade..... I hope this parade happens, and I already hope that those things which I've got in my mind are displayed during this parade, they're still under consideration.... Would be really awesome.... Let's see.
Sir apkay moon main ghee shakar but it's best that the parade does not happen this year. Corona babu is still here and kicking. We can wait.
 

Smarana Mitra

FULL MEMBER
Feb 22, 2019
1,011
-6
408
Country
India
Location
India
The moment I saw this, knew you'd have me tagged. LOL! Indians have also placed a follow-up order for Heron and Harpy.

Well, who's going to wake up our grand ol' uncles at the helm? For them, war is still fought the WWII style and all of these are just 'gadgets'. At times, I do think a very very rude wake-up call is probably the only thing that can help us, but then again, these folks are fairly good at making excuses. Sorry for the rant, but just too tired of this. =)

And check this out, their next version is air-launched version for these.

No, India has not ordered any more imported drones. India is about to finalise Rustom 2 drone and that will be the mainstay henceforth

Just a few drones and that could be called as swarm??

Drone show in China

I try to recognize these two pieces. Z-10 and Q-5?
View attachment 707045
There is a difference between static drones and drones that can do targeting. These light bulb drones were controlled by a computerised transmitter which had a fixed algorithm of lifting the drones from a known point and following a fixed trajectory. It is simply sequencing all the commands to a thousand drones automated using computerized transmitter.

For example, a drone is asked to move up for 5 seconds, then move east for 5 seconds and then rise up while moving north for 10 seconds. This sequence is then applied to a thousand drones by making suitable modification taking initial point and final point as reference and avoiding any collision in between.

Rhe targeting drones, however, have to have a lock on the target and then calculate a point of drop, all done with its own AI driven functioning with limited input.
 

Goenitz

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 28, 2014
3,854
0
4,213
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
I hope this parade happens, and I already hope that those things which I've got in my mind are displayed during this parade, they're still under consideration
I hope Pak should not reveal its cards now (debatable). As I think ( :-) ), on 26th, if we hadn't responded and during only a major escalation we showed our jamming capabilities then the indian losses would be more. Anyway, the response was a compulsion, but now nation should trust and armed forces should follow a chinese principle :
"You cannot hide weapon but can hide intentions"
And I think India favoured us to bring drones in our region (which we already have). So let's wait and just show them to enemy in battlefield. That would be an awesome surprise though.
 
Last edited:

Smarana Mitra

FULL MEMBER
Feb 22, 2019
1,011
-6
408
Country
India
Location
India
Maybe directed EMP type weapons, but jammers no.
Jammers can destroy these drones. Because even these drones need directions to go somewhere. Else, it may end up targeting some monkeys in a forest mistaking them to be targets.
Would be interesting to know how much resistance to electrical interference these have. The further away from the controller these drones are the weaker the signal. I know that drones used by army here have built in capability to vary the frequency over a set bandwith.

If these are what I think they are, commercial drones running over a single frequency without any means of fluctuating and varying the frequency they will be a piece of cake to jam and compromise.
They can be jammed easily. Even military drones of such small size have limited frequency due to limited size of transmitter and receiver. Iran has jammed advanced USA drones in the past too, showing any drone can be jammed.

But these drones are not game changers but only meant for targeting small targets with minimal losses. Due to their small size, one can't easily detect whether drones have been launched and by the time the drones are detected, it would be too late. It is more about stealth rather than hard hitting power

Though the payload doesn't matter but the tech.. however, for a technology demonstration, they should have used only the drone munition... as it is embarrassing to do such thing on army day. @PanzerKiel sir how much explosive you think is enough for tank busting from top? nonetheless I think the mini kamakazi drone could carry maximum <500 g explosive.. what damage it could do?
To explode a tank from top, one needs same amount of explosive as in a manportable ATGM. It is about 4kg penetrator warhead. Lighter tanks can be busted more easily. With non penetrator warheads, the tanks can't be busted but only damage the visor, guns etc.
Hahahahahhahahahahhahahhahaha hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

Eeeee hahhaahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahhah

so we took civilian swarm drones made in China and put some
armament on them

:p::p::-):-):-):-):cheesy::cheesy::partay::partay::partay::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

You all know that a drone like this only flies for a maximum of 20 -30 minutes, it’s made in China 🇨🇳 and would have no real effect against a hardened Pakistani position! This is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid, hey look geo news has similar weapons.

Why is Pakistan even investing in MALE UAV’s why not just buy this from the Chinese company like DJI lol. Why buy a wing long two drone when India has a knock off Chinese drone to defend them using a dual antenna gps locator.

oh man the gullible Indians populous

k
The drones can fly for upto 1-2 hours easily if they use Lithium ion batteries. They obviously are not some heavy ammunition to destroy hardened positions. These drones are only meant to take out soft targets at short ranges for example, when enemy is hiding behind mountains or using cover, trenches etc.

A world war two 88mm flak battery would deal with this sort of "drone swarm". These aren't the drones that folks mean when they're talking about drone warfare. You wanna watch some footage from the Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict.
These drones can be taken out by a simple assault rifle like Ak47. The problem is how will you keep an eye for drones everywhere 24x7? These drones are small and can suddenly come out of nowhere and start dropping bombs. By the time the drones are detected, they would have caused enough damage
Now I'm no military guy - but the Indian demo were no swarm drone (s). They were simple copters that released its payload via AI. My understanding of swarm drones would best be described from the movie 'The Day the Earth Stood Still' - the movie shows countless small drone-like bees overwhelming its target. Now don't be fixated on the bee element cause no one has that tech yet - but look at how the bees play the number game to SWARM its targets; which is the opposite of what the Indians demonstrated.

The Chinese version is the closest representation of what a Swarm Suicide Drone should look like and behave towards potential targets.
The AI makes the ordinary drones into swarm drones. Don't expect some advanced radar or other technology. Swarm drones are mostly run on electro-optics, AI codes and decent drones. Pretty much anyone can make them. Even ISIS used them to attack Russia in Syria.
 

Goenitz

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 28, 2014
3,854
0
4,213
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
Jammers can destroy these drones. Because even these drones need directions to go somewhere.
But the source said it is Autonomous/AI/Machine Learning. Plus INS or GPS can guide them where to go. GPS signal is weak though. Plus the communication is secured via data link then jamming is impossible at first place. Even if jammed, then AI can itself decide where to go and what to hit.
 

Smarana Mitra

FULL MEMBER
Feb 22, 2019
1,011
-6
408
Country
India
Location
India
But the source said it is Autonomous/AI/Machine Learning. Plus INS or GPS can guide them where to go. GPS signal is weak though. Plus the communication is secured via data link then jamming is impossible at first place. Even if jammed, then AI can itself decide where to go and what to hit.
A small drone can't have INS. INS is extremely complex technology and requires great sophistication. This is the main reason why countries find it hard to make reliable ballistic missiles - INS technology is too difficult to master. Drones will never be given such complex and expensive technology. Even expensive drones like Predator MQ1 used in Afghanistan drone strikes did not have INS due to the complexity and expensiveness of INS technology.

Secondly, it has AI but not completely autonomous. It is partly autonomous and partly manual. It is very difficult to have fully autonomous targeting considering how complex situations could be and difficulty in image processing. The communication link can't be hacked if its is encrypted. But jamming is very simple - just find the frequency it is using and send beams of that frequency, making too much noise in the drone's receptor. The AI with low powered CPU & camera can't really compute its own path fully autonomously and will crash. High end large drones sometimes have mechanisms to navigate back to certain checkpoint when its signals get jammed. But even then, it will need access to GPS for navigating back. Blocking that GPS will result in the drone crashing.
 

Goenitz

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 28, 2014
3,854
0
4,213
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
A small drone can't have INS. INS is extremely complex technology and requires great sophistication. This is the main reason why countries find it hard to make reliable ballistic missiles - INS technology is too difficult to master. Drones will never be given such complex and expensive technology. Even expensive drones like Predator MQ1 used in Afghanistan drone strikes did not have INS due to the complexity and expensiveness of INS technology.

Secondly, it has AI but not completely autonomous. It is partly autonomous and partly manual. It is very difficult to have fully autonomous targeting considering how complex situations could be and difficulty in image processing. The communication link can't be hacked if its is encrypted. But jamming is very simple - just find the frequency it is using and send beams of that frequency, making too much noise in the drone's receptor. The AI with low powered CPU & camera can't really compute its own path fully autonomously and will crash. High end large drones sometimes have mechanisms to navigate back to certain checkpoint when its signals get jammed. But even then, it will need access to GPS for navigating back. Blocking that GPS will result in the drone crashing.
Sorry man I don't know about data link security, jamming or INS but in INS, don't some accelero-meters are used in 3 axis? which is quite simple!!
I bet every cruise missile has INS, plus mapping memory but I believe that INS instruments are not that big.
Yes, you need good computing power processors, but for instance, if it is programmed like cover a certain distance (enemy territory), find anything by shape, thermal imaging, size and hit it. Though through algorithm which target to hit by which drone.
this is just an scenario given in ted talk.

On a side note: My university built an app which can determine a tree by analysing pic of the leaf. It is not that big (<30 mb) in size. I think it can determine 500+ tree species..

 
Last edited:

Riz

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 20, 2010
3,983
-1
6,324
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Abhinanadn was first loyal wingman which DORDO tested on 27 feb... Which later caught and spanked by a kasbmiri BABA...
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom