What's new

Army chief calls for national consensus to confront ‘economic and terrorism’ challenges

Bleek

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 21, 2021
5,949
6
7,468
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
Like I said, the birthright citizenship to Afghans born in Pakistan was considered by IK. As for freedom of movement is a long term possibility, should we have mutually beneficial economic prospects. There would be still be border controls, but it would be a two way street, once the two economies are strong enough to support it. Mostly this is related to people living in Pakistan to decades. Pakistan has absorbed assimilated the Mojahirs and their descendants, and in a similar manner many of the children of Afghan refugees probably only see themselves as Pakistani, having no real ties to Afghanistan. Alienating these people that are living in Pakistan leave a great zone in which miscreants could operate and recruit.

But this is getting off topic. These are discussion to have under a government that upholds Pakistan’s long term regional interests, to put to rest any terrorist and ethnic-nationalist designs on Pakistan, that could creep up when we have political instability.

The Pashtuns on our side of the border out number the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and the the loyal Pakistani Pashtuns outnumber the miscreants. Besides, two things will keep regressive mindsets at bay. Economic activity will possibly moderate the afghans and/or allow Pakistan to spend on education to push back against the ideology. And if this doesn’t work, a strong economy will allow the government to spend on police, FC, and Army to deal with miscreants comprehensively.

Pakistan can’t afford to give up on the Afghans and the Pashtun people, besides there are many voices inside their movement trying to fight the Jahilyat, and their society will have to evolve when confronted with the truth.

But once again, back to the topic. These are options/strategies to consider when we have a government that has the mandate, economy and authority to carry out long term planning and implementation.


And I still think IK's suggestion is naive. How will you filter through which Afghan has been here for decades and which one just recently crossed over?

Your assumption is based on the fact that they'll cross over and live as civilised people but if you know anything about them it's the exact opposite.

It's not a smart decision to allow people who claim your lands as their own and despise the native people's & nation's existence to settle in your lands. It's like Palestinians inviting the Israelis into their own home.

They just fuel separatist elements within society, fuel crime, and are primary recruits for terror organisations like TTP or foreign intelligence agencies.

They literally terrorise and abuse the native locals in their own areas, creating their own personal Afghan enclaves. This keeps growing until the claim the entire area as belonging to them. You're destabilising your own country by inviting anti-state assets waiting to be used by miscreants.
 
Last edited:

FuturePAF

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
9,123
24
9,926
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
And I still think IK's suggestion is naive. How will you filter through which Afghan has been here for decades and which one just recently crossed over?

Your assumption is based on the fact that they'll cross over and live as civilised people but if you know anything about them it's the exact opposite.

It's not a smart decision to allow people who claim your lands as their own and despise the native people's & nation's existence to settle in your lands. It's like Palestinians inviting the Israelis into their own home.

They just fuel separatist elements within society, fuel crime, and are primary recruits for terror organisations like TTP or foreign intelligence agencies.

They literally terrorise and abuse the native locals in their own areas, creating their own personal Afghan enclaves. This keeps growing until the claim the entire area as belonging to them. You're destabilising your own country by inviting anti-state assets waiting to be used by miscreants.
I respect your earnest concerns. They are definitely valid, and need to be kept in mind when making any policies. But we need a long term plan (any policies implemented will have to be carefully done to ensure safety before all else) to end their extra-territorial ambitions, with safeguards in place.

How many Afghans do we already have in Pakistan? How may get through the border and live under the radar in Pakistan. We have no real plan to deport them. We need to plan to document them, and use it as leverage to stabilize and benefit from Afghanistan’s economic development (when they will have to open up mining to pay for their rebuilding) as they have benefited from our economy for most of our existence.
 
Last edited:

Enigma SIG

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 20, 2009
8,272
-5
12,350
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
No, thats not it. Aaam aadmi aka public doesn't have anything on its neck let alone a boot because public will bribe to get job done, lie on face, commit contacts in action when needed, waste time in wok place, never work hard in life and then complain to heart's content about Pakistan like a thankless jock.
Like I said, get off your high horse. Never drink your own Kool Aid. Army is the prime reason for paralyzed institutions, a cancer if you will.

You influence courts, politically engineer favorable politicians, and as a result fall short of your job role, resulting in loss of men, equipment, material, morale and the dignity of this country.

We can see the arrogance at display from whatever post in the army youre on, and it has been instilled as part and parcel of getting on top.

Awam galian de gi because weve had enough. We know you dont care because trampling civilians under shiny boots has been the hallmark for decades. But we will still speak.
 

Mentee

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 3, 2016
10,957
2
23,663
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
FYI - any Army officer at or above the rank of mid-career Major is not FA/BA instead Masters which is the requirement of promotion to Lt Col.

Yeah masters , the same degree which got validated via g-3 from the then third class Peshawar university coz such request was initially refused by Punjab university thanks to the self proclaimed Field marshal .



lets just assume its a proper degree but how come a general graduated in army tactics end up running


wapda while an engineer/sdo is denied the post ,


Chairman Cpec , while a phd in public administration is denied the same.


chairman/member public service commission,while people with relevant civil service experience are denied the same .



Chairman sui gas, while-----.


chairman sports board,while----------


D.g coast guard, while- -------




d.g atomic energy , while --------.


Chairman disaster management authority while service men from rescuce 1122 -------



Heck even sometime around chairman boards of education while professors- ------.


and the list goes on and on .


My question is if p.m.a is the only training academy around the globe producing masters of all then we better close down every university in Pakistan and beyond. I mean what is the point of investing tax payers money in a plethora of academic disciplines when we could just directly outsource the pros from p.m.a .
 

Goenitz

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 28, 2014
7,410
9
9,769
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
Ohh please! Speak for yourself sir
I work two jobs myself first one from 930 to 7 then another two hours on private teaching, also on Saturdays, apart from taking care of all my domestic chores and errands myself. We the middle class aka aam admi is working our azz off while these generalz, bureaucrats and politicians are enjoying their life sitting on the nation wealth like their baap ki jagir.
People are so oblivious to the working hours of farmers, labourers, domestic helpers, and other pvt employees. A lower secondary school teacher teaches 60+ pupils, check their homework, and exams, and earns merely 20+k a month.

People think poor/common people have the luxury of doing nothing and still getting paid.
 

Conqueror

FULL MEMBER
Dec 15, 2009
584
2
868
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The army chief wants to impose thugs and corrupt people as prime minister and interior minister, yet he expects the nation to join hands with them in the elimination of corruption and terrorism.

Let the laughter begin.
 

Goenitz

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 28, 2014
7,410
9
9,769
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
Awam galian de gi because weve had enough. We know you dont care because trampling civilians under shiny boots has been the hallmark for decades. But we will still speak.
They don't represent the public anyway but COAS. That is why they don't care about public sentiments or welfare. The same goes for PDM as they rig elections and ally with the estb. Then DG ISI came and had the audacity to say.. that ""quom an meray pa zimadari dali ha"" as he cares about civilians or 'responsibility' in the first place.
 

R2D2

FULL MEMBER
Sep 15, 2009
903
-7
674
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
A system like this would never work, accepting their demands would significantly increase the number of militants by unprecedented numbers and give them time for further organisation - which is how this initially got to this point.

And other provinces will be emboldened to demand Sharia as well, TTP is not a ideology that really stops at one area, it will spread and so will there support.
The civilian government will also get one or two years respite to overcome the economic problems. We can have peace for now as the country does not have resources to fund an operation.
 

imadul

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 7, 2007
3,393
0
4,468
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
No, thats not it. Aaam aadmi aka public doesn't have anything on its neck let alone a boot because public will bribe to get job done, lie on face, commit contacts in action when needed, waste time in wok place, never work hard in life and then complain to heart's content about Pakistan like a thankless jock.
@Signalian
Not sure where you live.
I have respect for you but feel sorry for you too.
At least you are following
وفاداری بشرط استواری اصل ایمان ہے۔
However misplaced it is.
 

Bleek

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 21, 2021
5,949
6
7,468
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
I respect your earnest concerns. They are definitely valid, and need to be kept in mind when making any policies. But we need a long term plan (any policies implemented will have to be carefully done to ensure safety before all else) to end their extra-territorial ambitions, with safeguards in place.

How many Afghans do we already have in Pakistan? How may get through the border and live under the radar in Pakistan. We have no real plan to deport them. We need to plan to document them, and use it as leverage to stabilize and benefit from Afghanistan’s economic development (when they will have to open up mining to pay for their rebuilding) as they have benefited from our economy for most of our existence.
I think we should follow @Imran Khan 's suggestion on developing a model similar to the Saudi deportation forces who are quite efficient. Especially targeting those that openly work against the state and spread anti-Pakistan/separatist narratives while living inside - they should be targeted first.

I understand your concern in regards to the economy and I think it's definitely valid, but national security must be considered first before any perceived economic benefits.

I might sound harsh but we are talking about extremely closeted nazi-like tribalist individuals, who see an entire nation and everyone in it as an enemy. This is an extremely common sentiment in over 90% of them. This is not an exaggeration or overstatement, they are genuinely like this.

Also forget about making them give up their claims on our territory, you could give these people the entire world but they will never give it up. It is as important to them as the core of being Afghan. It's like telling Pakistan to give Kashmir (AJK & GB) to India. Never happening.

I feel the only solution in the future is going to be one of three, to properly stabilise this region and focus on economic growth:

a) Bring a Taajik government to power in Afghanistan who is not hell bent on expansionism or conflict with Pakistan. They could truly control terror elements that emanate from Afghanistan for us, given they have the military capabilities. They could suppress the group that has these goals, secure the border from their own side.

b) 100KM buffer zone ingressing into Afghan territory, and make that a no man's land - anyone who enters is a valid target for neutralisation.

Less likely and questionable:

c) Take mass funding from China, etc, and occupy vast territories of Afghanistan and use extreme force to take it under your control. This one is problematic and would probably require US/Chinese support but if you take it under your control - it ends the core purpose of expansionism and you can use brute extreme force on any problematic elements.
 

Bleek

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 21, 2021
5,949
6
7,468
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
The civilian government will also get one or two years respite to overcome the economic problems. We can have peace for now as the country does not have resources to fund an operation.
One or two years under Sharia law, and you think the government will have a chance after that?

The militants will go from 10,000 to millions, and no one will let you remove Sharia law it will initiate a civil war.

Don't play with fire or Islam. If you want Sharia then implement it with the right intentions, and in the whole of Pakistan. Sharia just in KPK will spread the Taliban movement into Punjab.

There are many outside sources for funding that they have in mind like Chinese, Saudis, Americans.

Gen Bajwa had a meeting with Nawaz Sharif in London.

He is PMLNs boy.
 

Titanium100

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 1, 2019
7,448
-10
6,231
Country
Denmark
Location
Denmark
I think we should follow @Imran Khan 's suggestion on developing a model similar to the Saudi deportation forces who are quite efficient. Especially targeting those that openly work against the state and spread anti-Pakistan/separatist narratives while living inside - they should be targeted first.

I understand your concern in regards to the economy and I think it's definitely valid, but national security must be considered first before any perceived economic benefits.

I might sound harsh but we are talking about extremely closeted nazi-like tribalist individuals, who see an entire nation and everyone in it as an enemy. This is an extremely common sentiment in over 90% of them. This is not an exaggeration or overstatement, they are genuinely like this.

Also forget about making them give up their claims on our territory, you could give these people the entire world but they will never give it up. It is as important to them as the core of being Afghan. It's like telling Pakistan to give Kashmir (AJK & GB) to India. Never happening.

I feel the only solution in the future is going to be one of three, to properly stabilise this region and focus on economic growth:

a) Bring a Taajik government to power in Afghanistan who is not hell bent on expansionism or conflict with Pakistan. They could truly control terror elements that emanate from Afghanistan for us, given they have the military capabilities. They could suppress the group that has these goals, secure the border from their own side.

b) 100KM buffer zone ingressing into Afghan territory, and make that a no man's land - anyone who enters is a valid target for neutralisation.

Less likely and questionable:

c) Take mass funding from China, etc, and occupy vast territories of Afghanistan and use extreme force to take it under your control. This one is problematic and would probably require US/Chinese support but if you take it under your control - it ends the core purpose of expansionism and you can use brute extreme force on any problematic elements.

This Indian is terrified of the Afghans and wants Pakistan to waste itself there for them.. But Guess what the Afghans are my cannon fodders and guys.. We aren't gonna piss of or disrupt our cannon fodders..

Our Next war is against your India and RSS... Mr. Raja Al Hindustani

We need an strong Afghanistan this is crucial for us and if India didn't exist maybe we could have even attempted to annex Afghanistan but at this point or time nope..

Killing two birds with one stone is suitable..

If Pakistan was ever to commit a miscalculation it would be 100% against our eastern borders aka your beloved India to your great disappointment
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom