• Monday, July 13, 2020

"Arjun is the best tank in the world" Rebutted

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Forum' started by FuturePAF, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    They are using ws10 as a stop gap measure as china want to continue with local options.

    The moat common problem with WS10 is very small MTBO and MTBF is very low. The metallergy of the blades is a problem due to which it requires extensive maintenance.

    Furthermore ws10 starts installing only after 2011 and china places order of su35 at the same time
     
  2. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

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    Short MTBF is just the initial batch and the continue media spinning of past old stories. WS-10 MTBO is 6000hrs and much higher than AL-31F. There is no proof of short MTBO and exist as a problem now. Why would J-10C and J-20 switch to domestic engine if WS-10 still a problem?

    Su-35 of 24 purchased is just a the minimal requirement to trigger a sale. If so good, why stop at 24?
     
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  3. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Wht china has to do trigger a sale of competitor ? That initial batch is of the same time when su35 order was finalized.

    If u need nothing of su35 then why did u buy that planes?
     
  4. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

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    US too plane an order of two Su-27 from Ukraine. But does than mean they are shortage of fighter jet?

    24 order is the minimal needed to trigger a sale. Plus Putin has urged China to diversify is import from Russian besides raw material. Import 24 Su-35 can train up our unit and research for further improve of our J-16 and satisfy Putin called for more import of finish good, why not?

    https://eurasianet.org/moscow-not-worried-about-trade-disparity-with-china-russian-scholar
     
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  5. syed_yusuf

    syed_yusuf FULL MEMBER

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    and then ws-10x with tvc will surpass su-35 flight performance with fly by light flight control system if and when applied to j-11d and j-16
     
  6. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Lolz ... are you for real ? Did u even read my post ?

    I stated the same in my poat China bought them as they want to imporve their exiating tech specially for radars and engines.

    Secondly your compariaion to US is hillarious. US purchased SU27 foe training against them. By that definition china should have been buying f15 f16 and f18s.

    U r wasting my time by draging useless diacusaion. After dozena of poata now u r stating the same as i poated initially
     
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  7. arjunk

    arjunk FULL MEMBER

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    Hello there
     
  8. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    Let me ask this. How does Chinese improve Chinese radar by buying Russian radar? You think radar is something with instruction manual inside when you unscrew it open? So with engine how will Chinese improve a totally different engine. Can Ford improve their V6 engine by buying a M1 turbo tank engine and just looking at it? Sorry but these radar and engine technologies cannot be copied or learned and even the learning from looking doesn't work this simply. All Chinese can do from these is to check Su-35 performance against China's own fighters. Of course they are useful as well in war. WS-10B and thrust vectoring mechanism shown with J-10B prototype is very different to Su-35 method. Also come exist years before Su-35 purchase to be shown only a year after receiving Su-35. 117 engine is totally different to WS-10 and WS-15. Design and material but also how to make the material. This is something you cannot learn from unless they tell you.

    Anyway it doesn't matter. This discussion seems like you said waste of time. If someone wants to believe Su-35 purchase means Chinese is behind Su-35 level it doesn't change what is actually real.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  9. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Are u living in a parallel world? Have u ever heard of reverse engineering ? Why dont u come back to real world and count the military machines in chinese inventory that are exact copy of russian systems ...
     
  10. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    Chinese operate third generation of AESA radar. PESA used in J-10B before Su-35S. AESA used in J-10C, AESA used in J-16, AESA used in J-20. All this while Su-35S just come out with PESA. So what is there to learn and copy here? Yes Chinese have copied a lot of Russian weapon design from 1960s until 2000s but from 100% to 10% to now maybe nothing. 117 engine cannot be copied. This is real world engineering not cheap word like saying buy = can study. So if I give Pakistan a drone I still think it will not be so easy to copy. So when you talk about Su-35 engine and radar can be copied by China, I ask you why? Chinese AESA not good enough? Chinese thrust vectoring not good enough? Or just to copy because it's fun?

    Tell me how to copy radar and engine. Please explain. I work in engineering field for 10s of years and never heard to copy electronic circuit and software. Definitely much harder to copy radar receiver and transmission units. So if I look at their shape then I use plastic for same shape and I achieve working copy? Really all you have is these easy words to say. Bought to copy that's it. Look at China copied J-11 from Su-27Sk. This is actually different? Su-27SK was shown to us how to build because J-11A is built from Russian equipment and they showed the whole process. J-11B for example would not be a copy of Su-27SM. Yes of course the shape is still similar but to say we can copy this magically is not possible. How to copy engine technology? This is not as simply as ceramic plate or table.
     
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  11. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yup u r right ... lets forget the past ... 10 years back u hardly had a commericlaly feasible jet engine but now u have achieved it so lets wash all the copies u made of russian tech.

    Anyways it is foolish to talk to people who are so blinded by national pride that they forget to acknowledge the help they received from the friends.

    Anyways, due to opinion of some fan boys my respect my chinese nation will not diminish but i will still now deny the reality of building chinese industries from copying and reverse engineering the technologies of others.

    Good bye
     
  12. PeacefulWar

    PeacefulWar FULL MEMBER

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    Chinese Military Industries were built with USSR help and TOT at the beginning, not from RE. And then endless investment to keep it moving from there.

    No one can set up an industry from RE. It probably worked before World War II because most technologies are about mechanical designs etc back then.
    But it's impossible to RE modern technology because of the wide usage of IC and material technology.
     
  13. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Not all the military technology is based on TOT and not all the technology is based in RE. The truth is somewhere in between.

    Anyways, china did great and is about to surpass US in technology and advancement so hats off to u guys for the hardwork u did
     
  14. PeacefulWar

    PeacefulWar FULL MEMBER

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    Dude, no country dare to claim will surpass US in technology in foreseeable future.
     
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  15. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Technology relies directly on economy.

    With US economy deteriorating fast they will loss the world influence and hence dollar will lose its status as world trade currency. Ultimatley US will not be able to finance hefty defence budget they have now ... i expect in a couple of decade US is expected to become second level world power