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Argentina Rejects American, Russian & Indian Jets Selects JF-17

MultaniGuy

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There are no two versions of the aircraft. There is only the JF-17 thunder. FC-1 is a designation. Not a version. The aircraft will still be built in Pakistan and use all the same components, only the ejection seat will be changed as was done in the Burmese models (which were also built in Pakistan).

The only other component in the JF that had some significant western tech in it was the EW suite (has input from Spain’s Indra system) which has already been swapped for a new Chinese internal EW in all models of block 3, including the ones we will be using.

The ejection seat and even the engine (which may be changeable to the Chinese one in the future As an option) do not make the aircraft a different version, it’s just like you spec a car with different options depending on your need. Countries can opt for the Chinese parts if there is an issue with sanctions (As with the british seats here) or simply because they want to.

However it is true that the marketing and dealing for this sale was done by China, for political reasons and our ties to the UK, when this was not an issue, as in the case of Nigeria and Malaysia, Pakistan did all the marketing, dealing, delivery and even training by itself, and will continue to do so. This is another advantage of a joint project. Keep in mind if the sale does go through, regardless of how Argentina pays, Pakistan will get its share of the money and profits according to whatever deal PAC and CAC have.

Keep in mind the JF-17 is a proper joint-venture, down to program ownership rights. China cannot sell this aircraft to any country without Pakistani permission, and vice versa.
While I agree there was more Chinese input on the design side of this aircraft, people think that Pakistan wasn’t involved at all, well let me tell you, the DSI and the LERX were both Pakistani designs and additions, and they are not small components of the aircraft, the Chinese prototype didn’t have them. The Countermeasure system of the aircraft was of Pakistani origin as well if I recall correctly, so was the original IFR system.
Since the aircraft being built for the PAFs needs, the majority of the flight testing team was also Pakistani pilots.
The funding of the program was also shared equally. Since then Pakistan has been working on increasing its compatibility with its own data link and weapon systems as well as trying to increase the indigenous content in it or at least increasing the amount of the aircraft manufactured locally using license or co-production (RWRs, Radars, HMDs and HUDs etc).

So to all those who sadly still think this is just a Chinese aircraft that we put our name on, please, think again, at least there was an effort, something that sadly cannot be said in most of what we make or buy. With what limited expertise we had we decided to make an effort, now we have more expertise, and hopefully someone will make another such effort sometime soon, this is how baby-steps are taken towards building your own industry after all. China started from copying and reverse engineering foreign tech, that too poorly at the start, look where they are now. Alas we have too many old-fashioned minds and too much corruption at every level to advance like they did. But one can hope.
I agree with you.

I hope the day comes when People in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia ditch USA completely for China.
 

LeGenD

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He missed my point which was in reply to someone putting soda down and instead went to a long post on fighter aircraft. I have no idea why?
The post you responded to clearly mentions Eurofighter Typhoon, F-35 and JF-17 in comparative context. Are the first two better on paper and/or heavyweight elephants in your terms? Perhaps you did not frame your argument correctly?

A post can be left unaddressed when it is almost spot on.

I am as proud of the JF-17 Thunder Block 3 as any Pakistani would be in person. I am glad that PAF will be able to field a modern jet fighter with support of China in response to latest updates in the regional security environment. This is a need of the hour. There is much hardwork behind this achievement which deserves absolute appreciation. The jet fighter in question is a benchmark in its class.

But it is not to be mistaken for technological revolution; it is more like a catch-up effort.

There are countries with considerable aviation expertise and legacy. I hope you get my drift.

I agree with you.

I hope the day comes when People in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia ditch USA completely for China.
And what will be the outcome of that?

DPRK ditched USA as well. Have a look at its level of 'progress'. Nearly eating grass?

Even DPRK is willing to have talks with USA by the way.

Foreign Policy is not a zero sum game.

WE are cozying up to Russia as well - the country most responsible for destruction of Afghanistan in modern times.

Blind hatred of any society will get us nowhere.

Work and Manage.
 

Saleet

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Nigeria wants upto 40 JF17s

Iraq is now receiving it's Super Mushaqs and I believe talks for JF17 are now in final stages

12 for Argentina (probably initial purchase)

Multiple other countries in discussion too
pai mein fer inkaar he samjhan ? (Teja)
 

MultaniGuy

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The post you responded to clearly mentions Eurofighter Typhoon, F-35 and JF-17 in comparative context. Are the first two better on paper and/or heavyweight elephants in your terms? Perhaps you did not frame your argument correctly?

A post can be left unaddressed when it is almost spot on.

I am as proud of the JF-17 Thunder Block 3 as any Pakistani would be in person. I am glad that PAF will be able to field a modern jet fighter with support of China in response to latest updates in the regional security environment. This is a need of the hour. There is much hardwork behind this achievement which deserves absolute appreciation. The jet fighter in question is a benchmark in its class.

But it is not to be mistaken for technological revolution; it is more like a catch-up effort.

There are countries with considerable aviation expertise and legacy. I hope you get my drift.


And what will be the outcome of that?

DPRK ditched USA as well. Have a look at its level of 'progress'. Nearly eating grass?

Even DPRK is willing to have talks with USA by the way.

Foreign Policy is not a zero sum game.

WE are cozying up to Russia as well - the country most responsible for destruction of Afghanistan in modern times.

Blind hatred of any society will get us nowhere.

Work and Manage.
I mean have good relations with everyone, but give preference to China.
 

Basel

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Between the British ejection seat, Russian RD-93 engines there are way too many dependencies on foreign suppliers
Argentina is going to think through this. But then given the precarious state of the Argentine economy there is not much to think about

Argentina will not get PAF block-3 version, they will get all Chinese JFT block-3 version most probably.
 

Saleet

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China and Pakistan have done exceedingly well with JF -17 block III export. Bigger export players like US and Russia have ignored the light weight export jet potential at their own loss.

I wonder if it would be viable for US to build and market a low cost variant of the fabled F-16! Countries like Argentina would obviously stay away for US equipment for obvious political reasons, but some African countries would certainly find the prospect appealing. :-)
It is not the technology & Cost anymore... Countries have also recognized the importance of after-sales services now. The Sellers like USA UK France are always in habit of blackmailing the buyers afterwards against their illegitimate interests. Sos this factor has also led buyers to even accept slightly inferior products but with no compromises.
 

Wood

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It is not the technology & Cost anymore... Countries have also recognized the importance of after-sales services now. The Sellers like USA UK France are always in habit of blackmailing the buyers afterwards against their illegitimate interests. Sos this factor has also led buyers to even accept slightly inferior products but with no compromises.
I don't think France puts a lot of restrictions on how you can use its weapons. But US certainly does.
 

Keysersoze

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I agree with you.

I hope the day comes when People in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia ditch USA completely for China.
Throwing all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea. What if China suddenly changes policy or leadership?
All big powers will look after their own interests.
I don't think France puts a lot of restrictions on how you can use its weapons. But US certainly does.
They place restrictions by charging stupid amounts of money for their products and aftercare.
 

MultaniGuy

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Throwing all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea. What if China suddenly changes policy or leadership?
All big powers will look after their own interests.

They place restrictions by charging stupid amounts of money for their products and aftercare.
True, as Pakistanis we look after our own interests first. But the Chinese have never wronged us.

Have good relations, but give preference to those countries that have never harmed us or our allies.
 

Marker

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The draft budget for fiscal year 2022 was presented to the National Congress by Ministry of Economy, which includes a request of US$ 664 million for the acquisition of JF-17 Thunder Block III fighters 15-9-2021

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The procedure caused a division between the heads of Economy and Defense, Martín Guzmán and Jorge Taiana, respectively.

Source: https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/0...-664m-for-jf-17-block-iii-purchase-in-fy2022/
The Defense Ministry informs

The Ministry of Defense informs that, by means of a Public Credit Operations Authorization note, it has requested the inclusion for the 2022 Budget of the authorization to manage credit for up to USD 664 million for the acquisition of multipurpose fighter aircraft, for the surveillance and control of the air space.

Likewise, this ministry clarifies that it has not been issued regarding the purchase of supersonic aircraft of any origin and is in the technical-economic and financial evaluation stage of five alternatives.

Source: https://www.argentina.gob.ar/noticias/el-ministerio-de-defensa-informa

It appears, that China must have offered a very attractive deal over and above JF-17 package, enticing Argentina's Finance/Economic division to forward the draft budget for approval from National Congress without verification from Defence Ministry.

IMO JF-17 package is only tip of an ice-berg. China is planning something big by cashing the hostility between UK and Argentina.
 

deep_blue

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Argentina denies it has purchased JF-17 from Pakistan
 

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