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Argentina Rejects American, Russian & Indian Jets Selects JF-17

KaiserX

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Is it a Chinese sale of the plane or a Pakistani sale? My understanding that China was in the lead for getting this sale as they have done all the leg work and that it is "China that is selling the FC1 to Argentina" and not "Pakistan is selling the JF17 to Argentina" in the sameway that "China sold the FC1 to Mynamar" and "Pakistan sold the JF17 to Nigeria" ...

Pakistan obviously performs a portion of the manufacturing and assembly under the overall contract that Pakistan and China have to each other but that is distinct and different to who owns the relationship for the sale.

Given that the large amounts of aid that the UK gives to Pakistan - are the optics on this sale correct ? Surely Pakistan would want the world to see China take the lead on this ? Feels odd to me - and i would not be suprised if the UK tries to cancel the free (aid) £300million of free FX reserves ( $423 million USD of FX ) that get added to Pakistans state bank every year to try and pressure Pakistan to cancel the sale ( and where the benefit to Pakistan is a one-off sale of $660million of which Pakistan will get a lot less that 58% of it .. ).

If Pakistan loses UK aid - then this "deal" with Argentina is not worth much to Pakistan. Of course we will get the usual drones that want to tell the UK to take a hike about free aid that goes to no one or someone - but given that Pakistan is BORROWING loans to boost its foreign exchange reserves from the IMF, World Bank, Asian Development Bank to pay its bills in USD's, is the potential loss of the yearly $420million odd of aid truly in Pakistans interest ?

Will be interesting to see how the UK goverment responds to this sale. That alone will determine if this sale is good or bad for Pakistan. The present UK goverment is fairly anti-Pakistan anyway and i am sure they wont let this opportunity to take a stripe or two off Pakistan and the anti-Pakistan elements will jostle to try and hurt Pakistan.
Work for these type of GOVT-GOVT deals are usually done by various prime/sub contractors. In this case wouldnt be surprised if PAC was the prime contractor and subs being various Chinese/pakistani entities.

Overall a great deal for us. Selling the thunders at 50 million USD a piece means their is a decent profit margin. This should be reinvested into the 5th generation AZM program.
 

Easy When

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Argentina is currently without a supersonic jet. If the deal for the S.Korean fighter was approved by the Argentina Congress then the JF-17 will sail through as Argentina is currently without a supersonic jet fighter. Why does India keep embarrassing itself by pitching the Tejas?
 

Sage

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Hi,

It happened due to what the Argentinian air chief / delegation stated over a decade ago while visiting Kamra.

" how can I decide about an aircraft if I cannot ride in it ". He was talking about the lack of 2 seater JF 17 aircraft
Exactly ...and the credit of the DP Thunder goes to Argentina...
 

Thorough Pro

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I don't have a source but in my opinion for obvious political reasons, Pakistan will not be the signing party. The agreement will be signed between China and Argentina as China will provide the loan (if any). Also, certain western equipment in Thunder would be swapped with the Chinese version hence the JF17 would be FC version, not the Thunder version.

Can you provide some evidence to this claim because it's not just Geo that is reporting this.
 

WarKa DaNG

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Off the topic, But the JFT block 1 and 2 does not have full FBW system, is it good to have full FBW or partial like JFT
 

airmarshal

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Could this be true?

I was thinking the UK would not like Pakistan to sell fighter jets to Argentina.

 

iLION12345_1

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I don't have a source but in my opinion for obvious political reasons, Pakistan will not be the signing party. The agreement will be signed between China and Argentina as China will provide the loan (if any). Also, certain western equipment in Thunder would be swapped with the Chinese version hence the JF17 would be FC version, not the Thunder version.
There are no two versions of the aircraft. There is only the JF-17 thunder. FC-1 is a designation. Not a version. The aircraft will still be built in Pakistan and use all the same components, only the ejection seat will be changed as was done in the Burmese models (which were also built in Pakistan).

The only other component in the JF that had some significant western tech in it was the EW suite (has input from Spain’s Indra system) which has already been swapped for a new Chinese internal EW in all models of block 3, including the ones we will be using.

The ejection seat and even the engine (which may be changeable to the Chinese one in the future As an option) do not make the aircraft a different version, it’s just like you spec a car with different options depending on your need. Countries can opt for the Chinese parts if there is an issue with sanctions (As with the british seats here) or simply because they want to.

However it is true that the marketing and dealing for this sale was done by China, for political reasons and our ties to the UK, when this was not an issue, as in the case of Nigeria and Malaysia, Pakistan did all the marketing, dealing, delivery and even training by itself, and will continue to do so. This is another advantage of a joint project. Keep in mind if the sale does go through, regardless of how Argentina pays, Pakistan will get its share of the money and profits according to whatever deal PAC and CAC have.

Keep in mind the JF-17 is a proper joint-venture, down to program ownership rights. China cannot sell this aircraft to any country without Pakistani permission, and vice versa.
While I agree there was more Chinese input on the design side of this aircraft, people think that Pakistan wasn’t involved at all, well let me tell you, the DSI and the LERX were both Pakistani designs and additions, and they are not small components of the aircraft, the Chinese prototype didn’t have them. The Countermeasure system of the aircraft was of Pakistani origin as well if I recall correctly, so was the original IFR system.
Since the aircraft being built for the PAFs needs, the majority of the flight testing team was also Pakistani pilots.
The funding of the program was also shared equally. Since then Pakistan has been working on increasing its compatibility with its own data link and weapon systems as well as trying to increase the indigenous content in it or at least increasing the amount of the aircraft manufactured locally using license or co-production (RWRs, Radars, HMDs and HUDs etc).

So to all those who sadly still think this is just a Chinese aircraft that we put our name on, please, think again, at least there was an effort, something that sadly cannot be said in most of what we make or buy. With what limited expertise we had we decided to make an effort, now we have more expertise, and hopefully someone will make another such effort sometime soon, this is how baby-steps are taken towards building your own industry after all. China started from copying and reverse engineering foreign tech, that too poorly at the start, look where they are now. Alas we have too many old-fashioned minds and too much corruption at every level to advance like they did. But one can hope.
 

airmarshal

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this could get very interesting

I wonder if UK has any objections

London and Islamabad are close

and they could kill the deal

Block III is a lethal aircraft and although it cant pose a threat to the Falklands UK might not be too happy

however since the French have been done over in AUKUS now France could sell aircraft to Argentinians so UK might see it favourably

lets wait for official confirmation

my concern is why are we selling Block III when we have not inducted it yet and hopefully its a heavily downgraded version

we should never export Block III no matter what
We should also thank stupid India for a spectacular marketing they helped by crossing the international border. Next day, Pakistan attacked and shot down 2 Indian jets. This was an advertisement of JF-17 capabilities that Pakistan could not never have been able to market.

After that, there has been interest in this jet.
 

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