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'Are wedding halls and cinemas for defence?' CJP grills govt official over military land's commerical use

Myth_buster_1

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i hope the army focuses only on fighting and not on politics and commercial activities. then lets see what happens.
I hope useless pathetic awam get their act together and for once do something to build the economy so army does not have to do the job that rest of the world nations citizens do.
By army stepping away from commercials activities wont solve the nations problems. Their are no compatative locals companies lining up to take over the role other then sub standard low quality chor bazari haram khori companies. Look at cepec for example. Why China or any other nations dont want to import technical stuff from pakistan? Because of cheap sub standards maal. The only thing i can notice pakistani made in US is just Nationals masala, pink salt and small percentage of cloths and oh yeah phootbaaals.
For fk sake even Bangladesh exports better quality products then pakistan. Do you want me to mention smaller nations such as vietnam thailand etc?
Look at ur daily local products and compare it with rest of the world. For same price u get better quality products in other parts of the world. Heck pakistsni nuts and bolts looks something out of 18th century.
 
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S.Y.A

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I hope useless pathetic awam get their act together and for once do something to build the economy so army does not have to do the job that rest of the world nations citizens do.
By army stepping away from commercials activities wont solve the nations problems. Their are no compatative locals companies lining up to take over the role other then sub standard low quality chor bazari haram khori companies. Look at cepec for example. Why China or any other nations dont want to import technical stuff from pakistan? Because of cheap sub standards maal. The only thing i can notice pakistani made in US is just Nationals masala, pink salt and small percentage of cloths and oh yeah phootbaaals.
For fk sake even Bangladesh exports better quality products then pakistan. Do you want me to mention smaller nations such as vietnam thailand etc?
Look at ur daily local products and compare it with rest of the world. For same price u get better quality products in other parts of the world. Heck pakistsni nuts and bolts looks something out of 18th century.
engro is better than fauji. and what makes you think that phauji phoods offers better quality products than others?
 

S.Y.A

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I hope useless pathetic awam get their act together and for once do something to build the economy so army does not have to do the job that rest of the world nations citizens do.
By army stepping away from commercials activities wont solve the nations problems. Their are no compatative locals companies lining up to take over the role other then sub standard low quality chor bazari haram khori companies. Look at cepec for example. Why China or any other nations dont want to import technical stuff from pakistan? Because of cheap sub standards maal. The only thing i can notice pakistani made in US is just Nationals masala, pink salt and small percentage of cloths and oh yeah phootbaaals.
For fk sake even Bangladesh exports better quality products then pakistan. Do you want me to mention smaller nations such as vietnam thailand etc?
Look at ur daily local products and compare it with rest of the world. For same price u get better quality products in other parts of the world. Heck pakistsni nuts and bolts looks something out of 18th century.
and the only reason that phauji group seemingly performs better than others is because of the fauji primacy in pakistan. they get permits faster, they get better import quotas, they get better access to raw materials simply because of being "fauji". its just a mass re-employment scheme for retired has-beens or their sons and bhanja/bhatijas. I have a simple proposal: anyone who is working for fauji foundation should either give up their pension or stop working at fauji foundation.
 

S.Y.A

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and here is a list of top exporters for 2020 from pakistan:

I see no faujis there.... turns out your claim of them being better than haramkhor civilians was a lie. turns out they are the ones importing stuff and selling substandard products to "kahil and jahil" awam of pakistan. lol.
 

S.Y.A

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From Shuja Nawaz's book, Crossed Swords:
"...The issue facing Pakistan and its military today is one that faces many other developing countries. Apart from crowding out other more useful investments, the relatively large size of the defence sector and its gradual expansion into other economic activities, as has been the case in Pakistan, Turkey, and Indonesia, for example, spawns a host of ills associated with such parastatal (government and semi-government owned) enterprises: featherbedding or over-employment, heavy and often hidden subsidies, privileged access to scarce resources, and the creation of a powerful and new vested interest group in economic activities: the serving military and ex-servicemen. Further, these activities lead to other spin-offs in the economic field, including

non-military industries, hospitals, real estate, banking, insurance, airlines, and even consumer goods such a cereals and clothing, often in the guise of benevolent schemes for ex-servicemen. As stated earlier, there is little financial scrutiny or supervision of these enterprises or, more importantly, overall defence spending. This distorts the allocation of scarce domestic resources and retards economic development..."

Its not me saying this, its a guy whose brother served as COAS of the army, and knows it pretty well.
more form the same book:

"The army has gradually acquired a corporate structure and identity that appears to trump broader national interests. It tends to act autonomously in foreign dealings, particularly with the Middle East and the United States. It has penetrated the civilian sector and now controls large segments of civil administration. And, it has a wide economic footprint that goes well beyond the welfare needs of its ex-servicemen and women. Increasingly, the central decision making on political issues involves the corps commanders and the army chief....."
 

khail007

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There are acts and stories of display of courage from each and every country in the world, Pakistan is no exception. It does not mean that we turn a blind eye to the acts of the Military High command and let them run the country as they please. It is not just a handful of Generals, it is the mentality of their entire senior leadership of the Military otherwise things wouldn't be in the same cycle of events since Ayub Khan.

Altaf Hussain is a branded a criminal and a traitor for his actions, are any of the Generals, including Musharraf, branded traitors for their actions over the course of our history? And before we even get to the crimes of Altaf Hussain, might I ask you who made Altaf Hussain and MQM? Who made IJI? Who made PTI? Who made JI? Who made MMA? Who made various political alliances for their political interests and who maligned and blackmailed politicians, bureaucracy and judiciary for their own interests using the tools provided by the state for the protection of the same politicians, bureaucracy and judiciary etc? The stories are never ending and repetitive and yet here we are singing praises! And now even TTP is acceptable!!

The fact is, my truth about Indian soldiers killing less Pakistanis than my own soldiers is integrity; there is no shame in accepting our flaws and correcting them.......and neither is it treason!
I have nothing to do with stories of displays of courage from each or every country of the world; I am a Pakistani and will stand for Pakistan. It is neither my duty nor my trait to highlight and admire the sacrifices of others and criticize mine. If you are practicing it start from your home.
Your posts reveal that even you do not have an eye; leave aside the blind eye. You just want to criticize those who were sucked in the power vacuum in a result of mess created by these corrupts/theives/murderers and admire these politico 'kanjars/liars/fraudlants' and same is the mentality of whole senate and all assemblies and even echoing in the general public and dangerous trend - we already witnessed it in Sialkot incident.
Those 'haram-khor/kanjars' joined JI/MQM/MMA/IJI were fools/idiots as military asked them and obeyed? There were infight among those mongrels on the streets. They all know how to make money and that is their main goal. If you think they will elevate you then you have only a 'foolish asumption' none else.

The so called fact/truth behind the last sentence is just your ignorance, hypocracy and hate. Which proves the imbalances in your level of knowledge.



Somehow you translate "I want the military high command to stay within their constitutional bounds" to "unarming Pakistan" which is quite immature really. As for the neighbors comment, I am concerned with my relations and not that of India's! And get out of the nonsense that the world wants to see us remain a slave, nobody wants to enslave you any more.....except those in Pakistan who hold all the guns and who invade their own country every few years!
Here again, I will advise you to listen to the statements of a boar-like Altaf Hussain/Nawas Sharief, enjoying in London. You could say that the number of people murdered by Altaf Hussain are more than those killed by the Indian Army; this could be a real statement but maybe you will feel it painful. Go and read the history of 'Khaji Killing Ground' of Karachi, I already told you. They invade the country because these 'politico kanjars' have only lust for money and they fight like boars to get an advantage on each other which time and time again destabilize the national integrity.


I give you fact after fact and that makes me hateful and jealous? Can anyone dispute the fact that the Military has the largest pool of human and material resources?
Again your facts after facts are just based on hate/jealousy as you admitted. What do you think, you want to fight with enemies without weapons; I don't know what is an issue with you? Do you want that amount spent on weapons/equipment to guard the nations should also go to the accounts of Zardari/NS & Co/Altaf Hussain?

If I asked you how Pakistani armed forces are doing well in defense of the country since birth, it would start a whole other debate because I have a very different view of what the Military has been doing since 1965 especially and how it has repeatedly engaged India, sometimes without the approval of the Government!

And the role of the Military in civilian matters is so deep and grave that they have become a part of every organization and institution in Pakistan, that is NOT the case in other countries; this is the reason the involvement of Military in civilian matters is being increasingly discussed. It is not like we discuss the Military in their own mandate but rather the invasion of mandates of other organs of the state.
I am not surprised, yes you should have a different view as you are totally ignorant of reality how the son of soils are sacrificing their lives to save you from an enemy of monster size and resources, as compared to Pakistan. Is it your wish to see Pakistan under Indian influence/hegemony with Altaf Hussain as head of the state or under TTP rule?

You speak as if the people of Pakistan actually can choose who comes into power; you are ignorant of the highest order! Pakistanis are kept in the illusion that they are somewhat involved in the election of the Government whereas things are made and broken in private rooms under the patronage of the GHQ which decides which political party or coalition is to be allowed where!
Till you remain bagger of IMF/Brotherly Muslim Nations; you could not move an inch in the right direction; as you are highlighting that it happens in GHQ; again I think you have some grey matter issue; so-called elected have to report to KSA where the agenda from the USA awaits them and soon after getting the initial draft they have to pay a visit to real masters for their future assigned duties. Get rid of corruption and corrupt politics; everything will be settled down to norms.
 

jk007

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That is also is why our enemy across the border laughs at them as property dealers.

He is just picking the usual suspects without actually doing anything to seem relevant and show them asserting the independence. Sab saale chor thay aur hain siwaye Quaid-e-Azam ke.
a) I guess you are referring to Indian media. Frankly, I have seen maybe a couple of articles quoting your famous journalist's book on this matter....and those articles are not ridiculing PA. You see - our communish / liberal dominated media in India desperately wants to publish good news about Pakistan......and they hide so much news about Pakistan that is of poor taste.

b) Most Pak PDFers seem to have almost pathological dislike for pre-IK politicians. Not sure why so much hatred. Hope this is not a reflection of the entire Pak society / nation.
 

Mav3rick

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Oct 4, 2008
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I have nothing to do with stories of displays of courage from each or every country of the world; I am a Pakistani and will stand for Pakistan. It is neither my duty nor my trait to highlight and admire the sacrifices of others and criticize mine. If you are practicing it start from your home.
Your posts reveal that even you do not have an eye; leave aside the blind eye. You just want to criticize those who were sucked in the power vacuum in a result of mess created by these corrupts/theives/murderers and admire these politico 'kanjars/liars/fraudlants' and same is the mentality of whole senate and all assemblies and even echoing in the general public and dangerous trend - we already witnessed it in Sialkot incident.
Those 'haram-khor/kanjars' joined JI/MQM/MMA/IJI were fools/idiots as military asked them and obeyed? There were infight among those mongrels on the streets. They all know how to make money and that is their main goal. If you think they will elevate you then you have only a 'foolish asumption' none else.

The so called fact/truth behind the last sentence is just your ignorance, hypocracy and hate. Which proves the imbalances in your level of knowledge.
Well, I am not insecure about my country's abilities and hence can confidently accept the bravery of my enemy whenever it is displayed. And they have stories of bravery just as many as we do. That does not make me a traitor, it makes me a realist who knows what my country is capable of and what my enemy is capable of.

Perhaps there was a time when the Army was invited (the first coup) by then president of Pakistan, great grandson of a traitor. But that single mistake should not be responsible for multiple violations of the constitution. Waise, do you know what the constitution says about those who break the constitution? Do you know what they are called?

We did not go for Land reforms due to which we have a landlord/wadera system prevailing in the country curtesy of which 300-500 families are a part of every successive Government one way or the other. And today, this system works to the benefit of the establishment and hence is protected. It is easier to manage a few hundred families than to manage many thousand individuals.

As for the comment on my last line, it is a the TRUTH and hence indisputable!



Here again, I will advise you to listen to the statements of a boar-like Altaf Hussain/Nawas Sharief, enjoying in London. You could say that the number of people murdered by Altaf Hussain are more than those killed by the Indian Army; this could be a real statement but maybe you will feel it painful. Go and read the history of 'Khaji Killing Ground' of Karachi, I already told you. They invade the country because these 'politico kanjars' have only lust for money and they fight like boars to get an advantage on each other which time and time again destabilize the national integrity.
Most definitely, MQM is most definitely involved in more killings than the Indian Army; I have no idea about NS. But to build on that, MQM had its own reasons and the only way to liberate Karachi from waderaism and pukhtonism, the 2 predominant menace and terrorizing factors of the time, was to speak to the waderas and pukhtoons in their own language. The initial era led to a time of peace and serenity before Altaf Hussain refused the bag of money sent by the ISI to become a part of IJI against an elected Government and hence because a target of the agencies which led to the military operation in Karachi! This is what happens when you say no to the establishment, you are made an example.



Again your facts after facts are just based on hate/jealousy as you admitted. What do you think, you want to fight with enemies without weapons; I don't know what is an issue with you? Do you want that amount spent on weapons/equipment to guard the nations should also go to the accounts of Zardari/NS & Co/Altaf Hussain?
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the English language and the 'question mark' which was at the end of my sentence thereby explaining to you the contrary in the first part and inviting your common sense in the later part, which you failed miserably. Nevertheless, Here I was explaining to you that the Military has a pool of a million plus (active and reserve) which can be called upon to assist the Government and you concoct an imaginary story line, as if in a parallel state of argument. Ridiculous!



I am not surprised, yes you should have a different view as you are totally ignorant of reality how the son of soils are sacrificing their lives to save you from an enemy of monster size and resources, as compared to Pakistan. Is it your wish to see Pakistan under Indian influence/hegemony with Altaf Hussain as head of the state or under TTP rule?
You have no idea where the country would be under an Altaf of the 80's and 90's. Perhaps you need to listen to his speeches from before 2000 and you would realize what a gem of a politician and a leader he was, nobody came close except maybe Bhutto. But democracy is a danger to the establishment and hence to Pakistan.



Till you remain bagger of IMF/Brotherly Muslim Nations; you could not move an inch in the right direction; as you are highlighting that it happens in GHQ; again I think you have some grey matter issue; so-called elected have to report to KSA where the agenda from the USA awaits them and soon after getting the initial draft they have to pay a visit to real masters for their future assigned duties. Get rid of corruption and corrupt politics; everything will be settled down to norms.
As you have repeatedly failed to grasp, it is the establishment which holds hegemony over Politicians and they decide whom to make and whom to break. For this purpose they have an almost unlimited number of options and tools at their disposal from embarrassing/compromising audio/video to mutually beneficial deals (carrot and stick). They have Governed directly for over 32-32 years and through proxy for the remainder and they will ultimately decide which direction the country takes.
 

khail007

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Mar 25, 2008
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Well, I am not insecure about my country's abilities and hence can confidently accept the bravery of my enemy whenever it is displayed. And they have stories of bravery just as many as we do. That does not make me a traitor, it makes me a realist who knows what my country is capable of and what my enemy is capable of.

Perhaps there was a time when the Army was invited (the first coup) by then president of Pakistan, great grandson of a traitor. But that single mistake should not be responsible for multiple violations of the constitution. Waise, do you know what the constitution says about those who break the constitution? Do you know what they are called?

We did not go for Land reforms due to which we have a landlord/wadera system prevailing in the country curtesy of which 300-500 families are a part of every successive Government one way or the other. And today, this system works to the benefit of the establishment and hence is protected. It is easier to manage a few hundred families than to manage many thousand individuals.

As for the comment on my last line, it is a the TRUTH and hence indisputable!
Why defensive or feel guilt? On one hand, you do not want to acknowledge the development of a 'Brotherly Muslim Country' thru the vision of UAE leaders, strong law, commerce/trade; only mumbled 'they have OIL'
On the other hand, you want to praise the courage and bravery of the enemy. It only reveals problems of your personality.
Dont teach me the wrongs of your leaders, I am very well aware of the history compared to yourself. That is a natural phenomena that when there is a vacuum the surrounding air rush to fill, do not try to deny it with your idiotic rants.
On one hand you denying to landlords/waderaism on the other hand you are supporting same status quo in politics of Pakistan. What a height of hypocracy. Just go and check the history, who was the supporter of landlords/waderaism in Pakistan.

Most definitely, MQM is most definitely involved in more killings than the Indian Army; I have no idea about NS. But to build on that, MQM had its own reasons and the only way to liberate Karachi from waderaism and pukhtonism, the 2 predominant menace and terrorizing factors of the time, was to speak to the waderas and pukhtoons in their own language. The initial era led to a time of peace and serenity before Altaf Hussain refused the bag of money sent by the ISI to become a part of IJI against an elected Government and hence because a target of the agencies which led to the military operation in Karachi! This is what happens when you say no to the establishment, you are made an example.
They were involved in the killings of thousands of innocents, even did not spare the founder companion in UK, you should be very well aware of it, don't you?
Now you glorify the group of murderers and no need to tell that MQM is an ethnic group based on racism.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the English language and the 'question mark' which was at the end of my sentence thereby explaining to you the contrary in the first part and inviting your common sense in the later part, which you failed miserably. Nevertheless, Here I was explaining to you that the Military has a pool of a million plus (active and reserve) which can be called upon to assist the Government and you concoct an imaginary story line, as if in a parallel state of argument. Ridiculous!
Yes, you are more familiar with English, I am not. Maybe one day you will be nominated for the noble prize in English literature, so keep it up to satisfy your ego. Again and again, your pain against Pakistan's Armed Forces irritates you like labor pain. It is not your fault, it is MQM ideology inscribed in your brain. You have to see a psychologist.
A piece of advice for you, better open a thread on PDF and start teaching English grammar to the members it could be better for you.

You have no idea where the country would be under an Altaf of the 80's and 90's. Perhaps you need to listen to his speeches from before 2000 and you would realize what a gem of a politician and a leader he was, nobody came close except maybe Bhutto. But democracy is a danger to the establishment and hence to Pakistan.
Yes only you can admire the murderers of the history of Pakistan, I do not have even the slightest idea that how brilliant a murderer Altaf Hussain was. Shame on you, presenting that 'swine' as GEM who was ordering drilling of limbs of political opponents and killing them only as they are opposing him, he was worst than Nazis in savageness.
Oh, are you slave to your circumstances due to your some role at that time?

As you have repeatedly failed to grasp, it is the establishment which holds hegemony over Politicians and they decide whom to make and whom to break. For this purpose they have an almost unlimited number of options and tools at their disposal from embarrassing/compromising audio/video to mutually beneficial deals (carrot and stick). They have Governed directly for over 32-32 years and through proxy for the remainder and they will ultimately decide which direction the country takes.
Your usual baseless accusations by only seeing the one side of a coin. Those who can hoard, do land grabbing, stuffing money abroad with so brilliant system of corruption that second to none in the world were so innocent they were unable to comprehend and prevent what is happening around? Appointed a person like you as their mouthpiece for support?
 

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