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Are TTP mullah coming in Swat, Again?

PakSarZameen47

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Then its up to the people who brought upon the difficult times on themselves and have to make choices to leave that situation,
Otherwise, much like Jahnnum - their skin will be burnt - torn off, new skin put in and burnt again.

I didn't say we sit around and do nothing. We're already seeing change with people coming out for Imran Khan without him even calling to.

I was trying to explain that one should jot be hopeless in this situation. There have been countless times where Pakistans survival has been at threat. Its own creation was a miracle agaisnt all odds.

Pakistan unfortunately will never see proper stability as India is our neighbour and has and will never accept our existence. We need to accept this and take into consideration that we are very likely going to face them in war , sooner that we'd like.

Everyone here loses all rationality and sense when difficulty arises. It's completely agaisnt what how we should act as Muslims. That was my point. Khair some people will never accept this but its fine.
 

Khan_patriot

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I remember the time when Taliban came into power and members on PDF expected Taliban to kick TTP's behind and help Pakistan overcome TTP menace. I felt the opposite since Afghanistan is a play ground for terrorism. It contains almost all the "wanted" terrorist outfits of the world. Pakistan's bad luck that Afghanistan de-stabilization starts making its way into Pakistan due to religious and cultural background.

When Pakistani officials often implied, that U.S. exit from Afghanistan and the return of the Taliban would limit the TTP’s threat against Pakistan, it was a wrong calculation. TTP seems to have been energized with the Taliban’s takeover and looks stronger than before. The depth of the TTP-Afghan Taliban relationship became evident after the Taliban’s August takeover. Almost immediately, Taliban leadership released senior TTP leaders and a large number of fighters imprisoned by the former Afghan government. Taliban can easily supply weapons, ammunition, human resources, intel, contacts etc to TTP to strengthen TTP against Pakistan.

Taliban can pressurize Pakistan by using TTP against Pakistan and attaining the leverages it requires.

The talks between Pakistan and TTP never seemed to have worked. TTP considers Taliban its ideal and inspiration. TTP has also seen how Pakistan ditched Taliban as soon as USA came in the scene. Pakistani leadership in past also never get on same page regarding amnesty with TTP, there were always conflicts.

1. TTP may have been using the cease-fire to gain the release of imprisoned senior leaders and improve its battlefield position by sneaking fighters into Pakistan from across the border in Afghanistan.

2. Or maybe TTP was complying with an ask from the Afghan Taliban leadership to help it consolidate power in Afghanistan. In any case, Pakistan was being damaged.

3. A longer cease-fire would bring stress on the TTP’s cohesion and trigger defections, especially to the more violent IS-K which regularly engages in outbidding violence. TTP is also allied with the notorious AQ.

The growing friction in the Pakistan-Taliban relationship has been increasing keeping following factors in mind:

1. The construction of a border fence by Pakistan. And if the Afghan Taliban step-up their opposition to Pakistan’s fencing of the border, Pakistan-Taliban relations can deteriorate.

2. The current political situation. If the TTP’s violence continue to escalate, particularly in Pakistan’s urban areas, Pakistani military and intelligence leadership will face some civilian political pressure to re-calibrate its strategy.

In both cases, Pakistan might try to ingress in Taliban’s internal politics to influence the group’s positions on Pakistan-specific issues.

TTP would be wanting the following:

1. Release of some TTP prisoners

2. Permitting selected members of TTP or a certain group to keep their weapons.

3. Allowing TTP and its related members to conduct cross-border movement.

4. Given freedom in some part of Pakistan to setup their space e.g Swat.

Pakistan has previously attempted to divide the TTP, such as TTP in Punjab, using monetary and political inducements, perhaps mixed with targeted violence against key nodes within the group, to wean away malleable from hardline insurgent leaders. This succeeded to some extent.

The issue with USA is that the resurgent TTP creates more space and options for al-Qaeda, which also remains allied to the Afghan Taliban. TTP seemed poised against Pakistan by minimizing its interest in global terrorism to protect itself from USA drones targeting TTP in Afghanistan. This is where USA interests eventually align with Pakistan to some extent. This is where foreign policy comes into play. USA and Pakistan both are taking out targets in Afghanistan separately. Both don't trust each other. It seems that both are taking out key leaders of Taliban, AQ and TTP, while TTP retaliates by using foot soldiers in sleeper/in active/newly raised cells/groups in Pakistan, which doesn't require TTP pouring its terrorists through the border into Pakistan. A certain part of Pakistan's population still has a soft place for Taliban and TTP in their hearts. This is dangerous but its there because of many reasons including politics and illiteracy in rural/regional areas.
Possibly one of the most sane arguments I’ve read on pdf in a long time Sir.
 

Metal 0-1

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. A certain part of Pakistan's population still has a soft place for Taliban and TTP in their hearts. This is dangerous but its there because of many reasons including politics and illiteracy in rural/regional areas.
I know someone with bachelor's who's living in west. He's basically apologist for AQ and T-Ban
 

El Sidd

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The abject condition of the economy is providing ample ground for recruitment coupled with projection of lawlessness from top to bottom. Blaming Afghanistan is simply not a sound argument.

Successive Pakistani governments have failed to undermine the root cause. Elimination of hardcore terrorism has not been capitalized upon by the government
 

JackTheRipper

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we are back to square one i think we lost swat again to taliban

Brothers any information @RescueRanger @PanzerKiel

This post seems misleading..

I know pictures are coming, where ttp mullah are in Swat mountains and roads, few soldiers including DSP, Major were captured, later released.

I had seen same video in different tweet, where people from kpk were protesting for target killings, i forget the kpk area, from where video belong. but here in this tweet, they are claiming on swat lost, people are protesting..
 

Signalian

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I know someone with bachelor's who's living in west. He's basically apologist for AQ and T-Ban
TTP has made it a religious war. One can blame the religion but its the individual himself who has to be responsible for understanding a religion thoroughly when following it.

An example would be the bodies of killed TTP extremists who were found to be uncircumcised.
 

Khan2727

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I wrote exactly the same thing ages ago (months ago) on this forum yet I was silenced and my thread was deleted. I guess that the establishment will ignore this as they ignore other internal problems and instead of trying to figure out/solve the reasons for this problem, they will just amplify it.

The "war on terror" that Musharraf began was really a gift that kept giving.
 

Sayfullah

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I remember the time when Taliban came into power and members on PDF expected Taliban to kick TTP's behind and help Pakistan overcome TTP menace.
Pakistan has to play its cards right too. Many in AFG would bend over for dollars. The recently killed ttp commanders and zawahiri and hizb tahir leader were all sold and killed for dollars.
 

lastofthepatriots

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Pakistan has to play its cards right too. Many in AFG would bend over for dollars. The recently killed ttp commanders and zawahiri and hizb tahir leader were all sold and killed for dollars.

It was conducted with IEA permission and intel. The haqqani mullah killed today in a suicide bombing was targeted by TTP/isis-K in retaliation.
 

Signalian

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Pakistan has to play its cards right too. Many in AFG would bend over for dollars. The recently killed ttp commanders and zawahiri and hizb tahir leader were all sold and killed for dollars.

Pak-Afghan topics have been discussed to death many times. The inter linking of cultures of Pakistan and Afghanistan along with religious ties of muslims on both sides of the border is difficult to bring under control. There is a certain group that hated Pakistan when Government writ was tried to establish in FATA. Next, there is a struggle to get whole KPK merged into Afghanistan. With such an ideology, every step becomes a challenge.

The war that Zia started and then Musharraf replicated has affected Pakistan badly. Moreover there was hardly any checks and balances on weapons and human resource back then. Uzbeks, Tajiks, Egyptians and maybe Chechens were sitting with loaded guns in Lal masjid in 2007, thats the capital of Pakistan. Things are very different now but every Pakistani is paying the price. Afghanis say Pakistan meddled in their business, well Afghanistan itself had allowed fighters from over dozens countries to fight alongside Afghanis and this is still true today since TTP, AQ, IS and other factions are formed of international fighters.

India just cries wolf whenever an incident happens in J&K. Take a look at RAW's budget Vs ISI's budget, the difference is massively gigantic. Afghanis are sold easily for money and USA tried that too. Here on PDF, USA is always taken as a negative entity yet if USA starts giving visas, these members will be the first in the line to fly to USA. Understanding USA isnt easy but isnt difficult too. USA had money but wanted its own policy implemented for the party to get paid. That party maybe a Jirga or a village or a faction or a leader of a clan or anyone who negotiated with USA. However, sometimes one or both parties didnt keep their words and ended in failure and destruction.

Pakistan if led by one person, ends in disaster (Zia, Bhutto and others). Pakistan if led by a team of members, still ends in disaster. All the decisions in past were not always taken by one man at the top. and even if he took the decision, the ones below him made the circumstances hell as they disputed his ideas. In Govt, some wanted religious madrassahs, other didnt. Some felt madrassah as threat, other as recruiting ground. In 90's, these were sent in J&K, that stopped completely in 2000's, but by that time a strong foothold had been made by extremists into Pakistan. Extremism led to terrorism. This is what Pakistan has been a victim of. Now rehab centres and other methods have been introduced to bring extremist minds to normalcy.

Society is to blame too. The teachings of molvi, in fact sermons, incite emotions of hatred. In many homes, literacy rate is flat 10%, only one learned member in commerce or arts or science and technology. Education is what you have remembered after leaving school, college, university. When doctors in a hopsital in Sindh started to treat heat stroke patients in ramzan, protrests erupted that fasts are being broken before maghrib. where is common sense ? no but Islam says so. Kher I wont debate on Islam or any other religion. But saving one life is saving humanity. In Armed Forces also, issue arises, pilots want long beards but PAF won't allow them to sit in cockpits then.

I had an interaction with a captain in good old days, he looked normal but no one every found him social or normal, he had a short beard, considered himself above the rest due to his pure beliefs, while i was a standing attention in front of him one day, he said to me,
"Do you see me telling that my dxxx is longer than this road and i will fxxx your axx with it".
He continued,"you know why, coz I understand Islam". I kept quiet, it wasn't my place to say anything being a cadet.
His version of Islam was somehow found extremist by Army and he vanished after a few months, we kept asking where is Captian XYZ, no one uttered a word. It wasnt that he didnt like using vulgar words, he started giving sermons, throwing ideas of extremism and started grouping. Then there were the long bearded officers with an even longer tasbih found in their hand always. Those were best in creating politics out of nothing based on their views of Islam.

In my travelling with soldiers and later with civilian technicians, we used to eat out of the same plate or karahi as travelling to far flung areas of Pakistan for sake of providing communication. Once a molvi type JCO saw that a shia soldier was with us, he at once picked up a spoon and put curry in a separate plate for him so the rest of us "muslims" could eat in a single plate. In civilian life, same thing happened when a supervisor saw a christian technician (called him Choorra at his back) and said,
" Sir iss choorray k liye alag plate mein salan daal letay hain" . Later I formed my own team of misfits to complete the projects.

All this is taught at homes to us.

If you look at it from a neutral point of view, its the distorted views of religion that has taken many shapes in Afghanistan, but why blame religion, blame the individual's and faction's own perception of religion.
 
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Hephaestus

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My very close friend is in Swat and he is travelling every corner of the valley. He is posting lots of videos and I would love to post some but I do not know how to.

He is saying there is absolutely no law and order issues and he feels extremely safe . They do however hear of rumours of Talibans from the mountains coming down and occasionally harassing locals and that’s about it.

He mentioned he came across army troops heading to some remote part of the valley for what seemed like some sort of operation.

Overall too much hype and not much truth.

By the way I noticed from his videos how clean and beautiful cities and towns are and road work looks really nice . Also on the roads nice looking new vehicles . He mentioned that there are lots of new cars on the road …. Non custom paid smuggled from Afghanistan and people standard of life is very good despite high inflation. PTI has done wonders for the local population and tourists have brought great wealth to the locals .


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What a lovely place.
 

Sayfullah

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It was conducted with IEA permission and intel. The haqqani mullah killed today in a suicide bombing was targeted by TTP/isis-K in retaliation.
Not just IEA permission, some TB ministers and one faction especially wanted them dead. They wanted their share of power in Afghanistan so IEA is setting up them to be killed because they want all power to them selves. Allowing intel agencies to kill is just because they don’t directly want to be held responsible.
The scholar killed today was top on iskp hit list for years. He survived an attack by iskp in Peshawar just recently. He had many ttp followers and supporters. But ttp it self is many factions with pro iskp and pro IEA ones. Just like the 4 commanders killed recently were all more pro iskp and being former iskp. Abdul Wali only left iskp because he wanted to be emir for the region and iskp didn’t allow. So some pro iskp ttp might have assisted but within Taliban there’s many iskp insiders. The driver for the scholar was apparently iskp and involved in it. Even in IEA there’s many iskp cells and supporters.
 

Sayfullah

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Pak-Afghan topics have been discussed to death many times. The inter linking of cultures of Pakistan and Afghanistan along with religious ties of muslims on both sides of the border is difficult to bring under control.
We have to play our cards correct to take full advantage of cultural and ethnic ties. Sometimes divide and rule is needed. You have to play dirty to win.
There is a certain group that hated Pakistan when Government writ was tried to establish in FATA. Next, there is a struggle to get whole KPK merged into Afghanistan. With such an ideology, every step becomes a challenge.
The faction that has our support has more powerful positions in AFG and is against the faction that hates us. There is other groups in Afghanistan wanting to have a backer saying pro pak statements and already have some power. We just need to invest correctly. Think about it. We wasted billions on war on terror. Imagine we used a couple million to keep these groups in our packet instead. What would be the cheaper option? Unlike india we are their neighbour and have more power over them.
The war that Zia started
Desperate times call for desperate measures. I rather have a Pakistan full of extremists then no Pakistan.
Afghanistan itself had allowed fighters from over dozens countries to fight alongside Afghanis and this is still true today since TTP, AQ, IS and other factions are formed of international fighters.
Now we see IEA particularly a faction in it trying hard to get rid of international fighters and be recognized by the world. That faction was behind the recent killings. Their leader loves money and is desperate for more power.
We should deal with such groups because they are reality now in AFG and I rather pak be their daddy then india. Even with a smaller budget we have more leverage and power because this particular faction Pakistan has huge leverage over.
Society is to blame too. The teachings of molvi, in fact sermons, incite emotions of hatred. In many homes, literacy rate is flat 10%, only one learned member in commerce or arts or science and technology. Education is what you have remembered after leaving school, college, university. When doctors in a hopsital in Sindh started to treat heat stroke patients in ramzan, protrests erupted that fasts are being broken before maghrib. where is common sense ? no but Islam says so. Kher I wont debate on Islam or any other religion. But saving one life is saving humanity. In Armed Forces also, issue arises, pilots want long beards but PAF won't allow them to sit in cockpits then.
I agree we as a society need to change. We need to promote proper Islamic education to counter these jahils. What our state does wrong is when issue is with jahil extremists our state goes full 180 degrees and starts promoting the opposite secularism which just makes these jahil Mullahs more stronger and gives them more propaganda chances. Like for war on terror, we are fighting people who claim to want “shariah”. Their target is Islamic conservative people who they want to recruit. Our state instead promotes secularism. These jahil people who are targeted by propaganda by these groups see this and are more likely to join extremist groups then. Had we instead promoted extremists as khawarij we could have destroyed their propaganda and made their traditional support base fight them. Tribal areas many people are practicing conservative Muslims. Secularism was never gonna work there. Had we promoted ttp as khawarij from day 1 we could have had all tribal areas fighting for us against ttp. Instead we had mushy with his enlightened moderation.
India just cries wolf whenever an incident happens in J&K.
Partly because our fault. When we have pm like Nawaz saying we sent fighters for Mumbai attack, what do you expect Indians to say? Also for years we didn’t mention Indian terrorism in Pakistan neither did we do proper lobbying abroad. This was job of our government but our politicians just care to fill their pockets during their term so india has free way to do all the propaganda it likes.
 

Sayfullah

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Take a look at RAW's budget Vs ISI's budget, the difference is massively gigantic.
Geography also plays a rule. Pakistan will always have the upper hand even with a lower budget.
Afghanis are sold easily for money and USA tried that too. Here on PDF, USA is always taken as a negative entity yet if USA starts giving visas, these members will be the first in the line to fly to USA. Understanding USA isnt easy but isnt difficult too. USA had money but wanted its own policy implemented for the party to get paid. That party maybe a Jirga or a village or a faction or a leader of a clan or anyone who negotiated with USA. However, sometimes one or both parties didnt keep their words and ended in failure and destruction.
Many tribal leaders in AFG or tribal elders would play both sides with Americans. Usa bought many out but it got played a lot too. Usa failed to understand the impact tribal loyalties and tribal ties have in AFG.
Also people can deny as much as they want but usa lost in AFG because Pakistan also didn’t want usa in AFG. IEA’s 313 Badri is more Punjabi then Pukhtun. I know fighters from it. 313 was trained by us. IEA intelligence was trained by us.
Pakistan if led by one person, ends in disaster (Zia, Bhutto and others). Pakistan if led by a team of members, still ends in disaster. All the decisions in past were not always taken by one man at the top. and even if he took the decision, the ones below him made the circumstances hell as they disputed his ideas. In Govt, some wanted religious madrassahs, other didnt. Some felt madrassah as threat, other as recruiting ground. In 90's, these were sent in J&K, that stopped completely in 2000's, but by that time a strong foothold had been made by extremists into Pakistan. Extremism led to terrorism. This is what Pakistan has been a victim of. Now rehab centres and other methods have been introduced to bring extremist minds to normalcy
Agreed completely. Pakistani decision makers are short sighted and make blunders often. It’s like they don’t have a plan B in place and don’t think long term.
I had an interaction with a captain in good old days, he looked normal but no one every found him social or normal, he had a short beard, considered himself above the rest due to his pure beliefs, while i was a standing attention in front of him one day, he said to me,
"Do you see me telling that my dxxx is longer than this road and i will fxxx your axx with it".
He continued,"you know why, coz I understand Islam". I kept quiet, it wasn't my place to say anything being a cadet.
His version of Islam was somehow found extremist by Army and he vanished after a few months, we kept asking where is Captian XYZ, no one uttered a word. It wasnt that he didnt like using vulgar words, he started giving sermons, throwing ideas of extremism and started grouping. Then there were the long bearded officers with an even longer tasbih found in their hand always. Those were best in creating politics out of nothing based on their views of Islam
Again, proper Islamic education is needed. You can’t counter these guys with secularism it will only make them stronger.

If you look at it from a neutral point of view, its the distorted views of religion that has taken many shapes in Afghanistan, but why blame religion, blame the individual's and faction's own perception of religion.
I see this as consequences of bringing foreign ideas to an area to quickly and fighting extremism with secularism.

Also people can deny as much as they want but usa lost in AFG because Pakistan also didn’t want usa in AFG. IEA’s 313 Badri is more Punjabi then Pukhtun. I know fighters from it. 313 was trained by us. IEA intelligence was trained by us.
IEA victory in AFG was because of Pakistani fighters and any us veteran from AFG would tell the same.
 

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