• Wednesday, December 19, 2018

Arab Tank Concept

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by YvngEngineer, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. YvngEngineer

    YvngEngineer FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +0 / 21 / -0
    Country:
    Jordan
    Location:
    United States
    I was thinking why don't Arab nations cooperate on building a tank? They of course don't have the general expertise and technology to build it themselves but if a number of Arab countries cooperated they could all fund it. The same way Turkey used the design of the K2 Black Panther to make their Altay tank. Of course countries with older tanks which are nearing obsolescence such as the older M60 pattons that although upgraded can be made their armor is obsolete against 120 mm shells and ATGMs. I know that Jordan has developed many things related to tanks such as the Falcon turret which is not being pursued anymore but is unmanned to my knowledge. Unmanned turrets are the future of tanks because less protection is needed for the crew because even if the turret is hit it won't be a crew kill but maybe a mission kill and ammo explosion. Anyway if liscensed production for the 120 mm gun used on the Falcon turret was acquired and the turret systems and ballistic fire control were acquired the whole thing with the armament would be NATO standard. The hard thing to make would be composite armor which could be produced under license maybe depending on who is contacted. I read a story that Jordan has 65000 tons of uranium underground https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/opinion/28beilin.html This could be used in the armor of the tanks in the same way the M1 Abrams uses it. I know some people are sceptical about the idea but most of the work would probably be foreign and with enough funds could be pulled off. I would think a price range in the billions would be enough to pay for the project which would be more than affordable to the countries factoring in how rich the Gulf countries are. The funding could work like how the F-35 program worked. You pay how much you money depending on how many tanks you wish to purchase. An active protection system would be needed to make sure that they can be used more effectively in urban warfare. I think the LEDS-150 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw15dqklTT9fBMtDzBT55WoG&cshid=1542942621243 would be cost effective and would provide sufficient protection. I'm not completely finished with this but I will try to post more tomorrow. Give me your opinion on if this would be a viable project.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. YvngEngineer

    YvngEngineer FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +0 / 21 / -0
    Country:
    Jordan
    Location:
    United States
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  3. HannibalBarca

    HannibalBarca SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,973
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Ratings:
    +3 / 5,840 / -0
    Country:
    Tunisia
    Location:
    France
    The (basic)answer is simple. They don't need it.
    Every tank on this planet is open to almost any Arab country...

    Maybe in the future... when doors begun to close...
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

    Messages:
    38,480
    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Ratings:
    +373 / 90,399 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Australia
    Lack of foresight.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Ceylal

    Ceylal SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    7,600
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Ratings:
    +7 / 7,313 / -10
    Country:
    Algeria
    Location:
    United States
    It is not economical...
     
  6. YvngEngineer

    YvngEngineer FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +0 / 21 / -0
    Country:
    Jordan
    Location:
    United States
    The gulf countries could fund it themselves. It would probably only cost in the tens or twenty billions. The U.S. scams them on everything and overcharges.
     
  7. HannibalBarca

    HannibalBarca SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,973
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Ratings:
    +3 / 5,840 / -0
    Country:
    Tunisia
    Location:
    France
    It's not a problem of money, but "availability".
    Will you make your own cheese;Bread;Grow you own wheat/Rice/Vegetables... when you can buy it at a fraction of the price... in every supermarket in the whole country?
    Will you feel the need?
    At the exception you can't find it anymore or it's too costly to buy...

    Arab countries... aren't yet in that "Exception area"... Till then..;They will buy an buy... But they are different from others... The moment they see "the needs" to dev it...they will...
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  8. YvngEngineer

    YvngEngineer FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +0 / 21 / -0
    Country:
    Jordan
    Location:
    United States
    But the gulf arab countries don't buy it at a fraction of the price. They pay extra for less. The U.S. sells them inferior technology for like double or triple the value. In your analogy is incorrect because instead of buying them at a fraction they pay extra. For example buying apache attack helicopters for the billions is a scam and those kinfs are willing to pay for it. If they put in that same amount they could develop indigneous technology.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. HannibalBarca

    HannibalBarca SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,973
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Ratings:
    +3 / 5,840 / -0
    Country:
    Tunisia
    Location:
    France
    The cost is in comparison btw 1Unit bought and 1Unit created+R&D+Industry etc...
    So yes 50 Tanks from the West is Far cheaper than 50 Indigenous Tanks.
    And you have to understand that those 50 Home made Tanks will be technologically inferior to the "already" inferior tanks sold by the west...

    Then come the "Future" of that tank... What will happen after buying few hundred units? Is there prospect for export? Evolution? etc...

    But yes, I agree... They should put that money in R&D and start their own... and then in few decades could have a decent/Advanced def industry and therefore not being under the "West support".

    But... let's be honest... Most of Arab Gov/Kings/Dictators/President...aren't really into the "Future vision" of their country... They live for themselves and their own future...

    Current Arab gov/West relation is reliable "enough" for them... as of today... Those defense Equipements are a guarantee for them... as much it's a necessity... it's all part of the good old geopolitical maiden...
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Ceylal

    Ceylal SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    7,600
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Ratings:
    +7 / 7,313 / -10
    Country:
    Algeria
    Location:
    United States
    True..but knowing the idiotic revalery between Arab States, they will never work together...that historical fact!
    To built a tank, you have to have an infrastructure and factories for supplies..it is not that easy when the mentality of the Arab countries is based on import...
     
  11. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    26,665
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Ratings:
    +34 / 24,517 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    China
    Thats the only Tanks produced in Arab nations (once we figure out who are arab who are barbers , and who are north african , or who are Pharos)
    [​IMG]
     
  12. GumNaam

    GumNaam SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,962
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Ratings:
    +0 / 4,228 / -3
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    Dang...eat your heart out abrams! :wacko:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    26,665
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Ratings:
    +34 / 24,517 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    China
    We make Al Khalid Tank , Do deal with Pakistan make 100 Tanks Licenced or We produce or ship it over
     
  14. YvngEngineer

    YvngEngineer FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +0 / 21 / -0
    Country:
    Jordan
    Location:
    United States
    Get allies such as Jordan,Morocco,Bahrain,UAE maybe,Oman together. I might have forgot a country but these allies are pretty close. They could each put maybe some technology for the tank and then build maybe one or two major factories in developed countries such as Saudi Arabia and ship the tanks to the country's that don't have the capability to produce the tanks themselves. I know for a fact that UAE and Saudi Arabia have both tryed to improve their industry and add exports to their economy's so their mentalities are changing with Saudi Vision 2030 and the one that I can't recall for UAE.
     
  15. YvngEngineer

    YvngEngineer FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Ratings:
    +0 / 21 / -0
    Country:
    Jordan
    Location:
    United States
    That's kind of racist and a stereotype. Your "great" technology is mostly made from major assistance from China. Jf-17, Al-khalid, more I don't know about. So I wouldn't go around saying that when you couldn't do many things without China.