• Friday, October 18, 2019

Ancient Arab female rulers and the only de-facto female Caliph in history - Do Arabs hate women?

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by Saif al-Arab, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    That is how they like theirs mostly.. so that is their perception of women in general.. So they get shocked when they find differences in the Muslim culture..
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  2. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    @The SC

    This thread appears to be a nightmare for some people who can't deal or master the courage to admit their Arab obsession (inferiority complex and hatred) and ability to deal with historical facts. It's very pleasing to see.

    upload_2018-6-22_22-43-33.gif
    JOURNAL ARTICLE
    Pre-Islamic Arab Queens
    Nabia Abbott
    The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures
    Vol. 58, No. 1 (Jan., 1941), pp. 1-22
    Published by: The University of Chicago Press
    Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/529209
    Page Count: 22

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/529209

    Arab Warrior Queens


    by Adrienne Mayor (Regular Contributor)

    [​IMG]Neo-Assyrian records of the eighth century BC name several queens who ruled Qedar, a confederation of nomadic Arab and Semitic tribes that ranged from the Syrian desert to the Nile. The Qedarites were also mentioned in the Old Testament and by Greek and Roman writers.

    Zabibi (her name means “raisin”) was “Sarrat qur Aribi” (Queen of the Arabs”) from 738-733 BC. Some have suggested that she was part of a dynasty of female rulers that included the Queen of Sheba, the mysterious queen who met King Solomon in the Old Testament. Zabibi ruled as a vassal who paid tribute to the Assyrian king Tiglath Pileser III. Her successor was Samsi (Arabic, “sun”).

    Queen Samsi made an alliance with Rakhianu, ruler of Damascus, and together they led a rebellion against Tiglath Pileser III in 732 BC. Arabian warriors, male and female rode horses and used bows and javelins. The decisive battle took place on the plain below Mount Sa-qu-ur-ri (site unknown) and Samsi’s army was defeated. According to Assyrian archives, Queen Samsi “fled into the desert like a wild she-***.”

    The Assyrian comparison was apt. The Syrian hemippe, an extinct species of small (about 3 feet at the shoulder) but very strong and swift onager that was once common in herds across the nomad territories of Syria, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Iran. The Syrian onagers were dark and tawny in summer and pale sand-colored in winter. Considered as beautiful as thoroughbred horses the asses were notoriously elusive and impossible to tame or domesticate. The last two wild Syrian onagers both died in 1927: one was shot in Jordan and the other died a captive in a zoo in Vienna.

    Samsi surrendered and negotiated an agreement with Tiglath Pileser that allowed her to remain queen of the Qedar until 728 BC. She was succeeded by Queen Yatie.

    Yatie joined the coalition of Chaldeans, Elamites, and Aramaeans to fight the Assyrian king Sennacherib in 703 BC for control of Babylon. Her successor was Te’el-hunu. Nothing is known of her except her name. The Qedarites also disappear from the historical record by the first century AD.

    About the author: A Research Scholar in Classics and History of Science, Stanford University. Adrienne Mayor is the author of The Poison King: Mithradates, Rome’s Deadliest Enemy, a nonfiction finalist for the 2009 National Book Award, and The Amazons: Lives and Legends of Warrior Women across the Ancient World (2014).

    http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2015/04/arab-warrior-queens.html
     
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  3. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    Using coins and inscriptions on Nabataean tombs and monuments in Greek and Semitic languages, Fassi surmises that women’s independent status was linked to a rise in trade and political exchanges in the ancient world at the time.

    “There was a certain economic change in that period that allowed women to become stronger or more visible,” she said. “I believe it was because of the economic absence of men ... At the end of the first century BC the caravan trade became intensive, twice a year rather than once in the previous millennium.”

    The last of the Middle East states to fall to direct Roman rule in 106 AD, the Nabataean confederation’s power was based on desert trade routes from Yemen to Greece and Rome.

    Nabataean queens had coins struck in their name and showing their face, with light hair-covering veils.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nt-womens-rights-idUSL136115520080501?sp=true
     
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  4. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    [​IMG]

    22 JANUARY, 2017 - 01:52 NATALIA KLIMCZAK
    Mavia: A Powerful Warrior Queen Who Struck Fear in the Hearts of Ancient Male Rulers

    A woman whose life isn't confirmed by any archaeological evidence is recognized as one of the most famous ancient Arab queens. Next to Zenobia of Palmyra, Queen Mavia is one of the heroines from the sands of the deserts. Her story has only survived in song and oral traditions, but with this information researchers have been able to reconstruct a probable version of her biography.

    The deserts that belonged to the Arab tribes were ruled by many unknown leaders. Stories about these forgotten kings and queens have been lost amongst the grains of sand. Not all of their people were illiterate, as was common back then, so their tales couldn't be recorded. However, some of their memories have survived through folk songs and oral legends that were later written down. One such story is the legend of Queen Mavia, who was more powerful than many men and an inspiring personality for ancient Arabic women.

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    A depiction of Saracens in a 15th-century woodcut (According to Sozomen provided details) ( Public Domain )

    A Queen of Deserts and Oasis
    Her Arabic name was Mawiyya, but she is known in the English language as Mavia. She was probably a daughter of Tanukhids, a man who lost the support of his Arab tribes and migrated to the northern parts of the Arabian Peninsula. His daughter Mawiyya married al-Hawari, who was the king of the Tanukh tribe. He ruled in 375 AD. Mavia became his co-regent as her tribe demanded a revolt against the Roman Empire. When al-Hawari died, the Roman Emperor Valens believed that it would be a simple task to conquer and Christianize the people of Mavia’s tribe. However, Mavia, who inhabited Aleppo at that time, decided to withdraw from the city to the desert – greatly increasing her chances to defeat the enemy. Some researchers suggest that she could have been a Christian by then, but there is no clear evidence to this.

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    A marble bust, possibly representing Valens. ( Public Domain )

    This supposition may be rooted in another legend - a tale of a meeting between Queen Mavia and an orthodox monk, who spent some time with her and apparently converted her to Christianity. Roman writers doubted this story however, suggesting that the legend of her conversion may have been created later. This means that Mavia was probably a pagan queen.


    Mavia’s life mostly took place in the desert sands, on horseback, and in the battlefields. Apart from fights with the Roman Empire, she is also famous due to her rides in Phoenicia and Palestine. Her cavalry had terrifying power on the battlefield. It is said that Mavia rode a horse very well and was a remarkable fighter. Without any mercy, she defeated countless enemies who disrespected her for her gender. Many male rulers didn't respect her and hoped to conquer her lands easily in the beginning of her reign, but with time she became a force to be reckoned with in the Mediterranean area.

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    Regions under the authority of Odaenathus of Palmyra. ( CC BY-SA 4.0 )

    Was She a Real Person?
    The task of finding primary historical references about Mavia isn't easy. Many of them are mixed with the stories of other rulers, including the legendary achievements of Zenobia of Palmyra. Thus, there are different theories about Mavia. According to Archaeology Magazine:


    De Vries notes that the nomadic nature of the Saracens would leave little archaeological evidence. “Thus, for Mavia’s material world, you may have to think ‘tents,’ not palaces,” he says. “In general, the material evidence for local Arab culture in this period is ephemeral, and, textually, they do not tend to write about themselves.”

    “The revolt didn’t last very long and certainly didn’t leave any archaeological traces that I’m aware of. One could be hard put to date them unless they had a name on them,” says Bowersock. Islamic scholar Irfan Shahid believes that an inscription from A.D. 425, found near Anasartha, Syria, references Mavia’s contributions to local Christianity. The text praises a woman named Mavia and states that she built a martyrium, or building in honor of a saint, for St. Thomas. Shahid holds that both the timing and the laudatory tone of the inscription fit with the warrior queen. Bowersock counters with the assertation that the name “‘Mavia’ is not all that uncommon. We do have people called ‘Mawiya’ in inscriptions of this time, but there’s not the slightest reason to think that it’s this Mavia.” Adds de Vries, “Irfan Shahid, my friend, does stretch the evidence because he so desperately wants Mavia to be a great Arab Christian queen...he speculates a lot, and sometimes those speculations become facts when he returns to them later.””


    Researchers have analyzed hundreds of texts that could be about her, but there are no known precious artifacts that are connected to this mysterious queen. It is, however, believed that she died in Anasartha, east of Aleppo. Most researchers agree that her death took place in 425 AD; about a century after the death of Zenobia of Palmyra, another great female ruler who became a legend.

    [​IMG]

    Queen Zenobia's Last Look upon Palmyra by Herbert Gustave Schmalz. ( Public Domain ) Mavia is the second most famous Arab queen, only following behind Queen Zenobia.

    Searching for a Semi-Nomadic Queen
    Most researchers agree that Queen Mavia was a real person. She is believed to have been a strong ruler of the Arab world who was one of the most influential women in the ancient history of these lands. Yet some of the stories about her sound like tales about Zenobia of Palmyra and were probably mixed up over the years. But both women are still recognized as powerful icons of the Arab world and in the history of the Middle East.

    Top image: ‘Arabian Eyes’ by mnadi ( flickr)

    By Natalia Klimczak


    HideReferences


    Irfan Shahid, Rome and the Arabs: A Prolegomenon to the Study of Byzantium and the Arabs, 1984.

    Warwick Ball, Rome in the East: The Transformation of an Empire, 2001

    Jan Retsö, The Arabs in Antiquity: Their History from the Assyrians to the Umayyads, 2003

    Mavia of Arabia by Carly Silver, available at:
    http://archive.archaeology.org/online/features/iron_ladies/mavia.html

    http://www.ancient-origins.net/hist...struck-fear-hearts-ancient-male-rulers-007415
     
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  5. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    I dont know if the Arabs hated women ...But we all know that the Islamic rule was overthrown by Christians who burned libraries and villages (hence records) or by other religions like Hinduism in India where they also killed/ trashed and burned alot! No one can deny it because in every war there were losses ESP to education/ writings and so on!

    Instead of relying on wikipedia, I suggest you read proper books and research articles to find your query otherwise it is just writings of the winners of war + whatever people in todays world want you to hear!
     
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  6. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    My friend, we know from historical writings, records, artifacts, archaelogy that this was not the case. Neither in the pre-Islamic nor Islamic period. Kindly read the thread from the beginning to the end if you get the time to do so. Those Wikipedia links are not hostile at all or anti-Muslim or anti-Arab but purely give an introduction to those ancient Arab female rulers or female Arab Islamic personalities.

    Ancient pre-Islamic Hijazi female clothing (a few examples)

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    30 + something more traditional dresses can be seen here below.

    http://www.mansoojat.org/costumes01.html
     
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  7. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    No wonder the verses came to cover the bosoms! This dresses are known due to movies about prophet's life (without showing prophet's face but lifestyle)
     
  8. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with those beautiful traditional dresses. They have been worn throughout the entire Islamic period (1400 years) and continue to be warn.
     
  9. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    Saudi Arabia, Oman sites added to UNESCO World Heritage List
    [​IMG]
    Photo showing members of delegations attend the opening session of United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization’s (UNESCO) 42nd session of the world heritage meetings in the Bahraini capital Manama, June 25, 2018. (AFP)​
    AFP
    June 29, 201817:16
    • UNESCO added Saudi Arabia’s Al-Ahsa Oasis and Oman’s ancient city of Qalhat to its World Heritage List on Friday.
    • Saudi Arabia’s lush Al-Ahsa oasis is dotted with yet-to-be-excavated archaeological sites, and carries traces of human occupation dating back to Neolithic times.
    MANAMA: UNESCO added Saudi Arabia’s Al-Ahsa Oasis and Oman’s ancient city of Qalhat to its World Heritage List on Friday, the world cultural body said.
    Authorities in Riyadh, as well as Muscat, have put tourism high on their economic agendas as Gulf states look to diversify their oil-dependent economies.
    Saudi Arabia’s lush Al-Ahsa oasis is dotted with yet-to-be-excavated archaeological sites, and carries traces of human occupation dating back to Neolithic times.
    Al-Ahsa “was a commercial center for the Hajjar territory of Bahrain,” reads the Saudi submission to UNESCO.
    “Archaeological evidence shows that it exchanged products from southern Arabia and Persia as well as throughout the Arabian Peninsula.”
    Riyadh’s tourism drive, backed by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, has not shied from highlighting pre-Islamic heritage in the kingdom.
    Oman’s Qalhat also dates back to pre-Islamic times.
    The port city on Oman’s Indian Ocean coast was once a key hub for trade in goods including Arabian horses to Chinese porcelain, according to the Omani submission.
    The case of Qalhat also demonstrates the power women could hold in Arabian society at the time.
    “In the 13th century ... the governor Ayaz split his presence between Hormuz and Qalhat, which in his absence was ruled by his wife Maryam,” the submission reads.
    “She, Bibi Maryam, is said to have built the Great Friday Mosque and a mausoleum for her late husband. She continued ruling after her husband’s death until at least 1319.”

    The World Heritage designation is a prestigious one for the Gulf states, looking to make their mark as culturally rich, safe tourist destinations.
    The UNESCO gathering in neighboring Bahrain however comes at a sensitive time for the world body as it scrambles for funding following Washington’s withdrawal last year.
    US President Donald Trump’s administration pulled out of UNESCO citing its continuing “anti-Israel bias,” six years after the organization allowed the Palestinians to join.

    http://www.arabnews.com/node/1330406/saudi-arabia

    [​IMG]Bibi Mariam tomb, Oman by Eric Lafforgue, on Flickr

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalhat

     
  10. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    Nader Masarwah
    • 3.8
    • Al-Qasemi Academic College of Education


    Abstract
    This study aims at illuminating the institution and customs of marriage in the pre‐Islamic period (AlJahiliyya), and at the same time at putting to rest certain completely unfounded, fabricated and slanderous claims about this period which have been disseminated by a not inconsiderable number of scholars. It will present the facts about marriage in the period in question by way of showing how it appears in pre‐Islamic literature, prose as well as poetry, and how the social and humane relations between husband and wife reflected in the pre‐islamic poetry and prose. The Arabs in pre-Islamic times possessed the institution of marriage, which had its principles and rules. At the same time, some people preferred not to enter into a marriage and lived a life of celibacy or monasticism (in Arabic they were called sarura or 'azha). On the other hand, some Arabs were polygamous, with the number of wives occasionally exceeding four. Pre-Islamic Arabia by-and-large respected women and did not look at them furtively, especially if they were divorced or widowed. They would lower their gaze when such a woman came into their sight, in order not to discover her residence. Nor was any shame attached to marrying such a woman, even among men who had never married before. Perhaps the best-known example of this was the marriage of the Prophet Muhammad, as a young man who had never been with a woman before, to Khadija the daughter of Khuwaylid al-Thayyib. The fact that no shame or blame was attached to marrying a widow or a divorced woman is attested by an epistle written by

    Rest of the PDF file can be downloaded below:

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...and_Humane_Relations_Between_Husband_and_Wife
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  11. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    @OutOfAmmo

    This thread is another wonderful example of how ignorant, moronic and most importantly non-factual propaganda (in particular by foreign radical Islamists but not only), if parroted enough of times, becomes "the truth" in certain uneducated circles despite archaeology, historical records and modern-day scholarly works destroying such ridiculous notions completely.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
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  12. BATMAN

    BATMAN ELITE MEMBER

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    Is there any other church as old as this?

    That's what i noticed... ignorance + hate, that's what they all reflect.
     
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  13. CamelGuy

    CamelGuy FULL MEMBER

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    I believe that when it comes to society, the 'balance' of the genders and the gender topic in general we need to keep both Islamists (women oppessors) and Western '3rd/4th wave' feminism at distance. The latter causes the destruction of families pushing women to make use of their sexual power in their young days whilst becoming lone childless beings later on or they divorce and destroy every quality a man has always represented. The Islamists are oppressing women entirely and tend to blow up when another man looks at them, we've got 2 monkeys to deal with here. This is why I always know then the westerner criticizes any of our regimes, be it that of Iran, Iraq, Saudi or any other state they are not doing so in the benefit of the middle eastern people but from the system they seek to instil. All foreign interference is destructive and hostile, despite the hostilities in the region the middle eastern people share with each other more than they do with outsiders in the west or far east. A change in any of them will cause chain reaction to other states.
     
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  14. Saif al-Arab

    Saif al-Arab BANNED

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    In KSA? Not that I know of but it would not surprise me if even older churches would be discovered in KSA seeing the great pace by which 100's upon 100's (if not 1000's) of new archaeological/pre-historic/historical remains sites are being discovered.

    See the text in the article below written with large letters.

    Discovering Saudi Arabia's hidden archaeological treasures

    Mada'in Saleh remains a blank page on the archaeological record, closed off by geography, politics, and religion – but this stunning region is about to throw open its doors to the world

    [​IMG]
    Mada'in Saleh, the archaeological site with the Nabatean tomb from the first century ( All photographs by Nicholas Shakespeare )
    Out of the windy darkness a fine sand was blowing across the road from Medina to Al-Ula. Flat desert on either side, a few lights. The Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta passed this way on camel back in 1326, and wrote of its emphatic wilderness: “He who enters it is lost and he who leaves it is born.”

    Before mass tourism ruined them for a second time, I’d travelled to the so-called “lost” cities of Petra, Machu Picchu and Angkor Wat. My destination tonight was the isolated sandstone valley eulogised by Charles Doughty, the first European to enter it in 1876, as “the fabulous Mada’in Saleh which I was come from far countries to seek in Arabia”.

    The prospect of following in Doughty’s flapping shadow gave me a jolt of anticipation that I hadn’t experienced since my twenties. Doughty’s classic book Arabia Deserta was championed by his friend TE Lawrence, who later used it as a military textbook, as the greatest record of adventure and travel in our language.

    It begins with Doughty trying to smuggle himself into Mada’in Saleh in the guise of a poor Syrian pilgrim. Even up until recently few Europeans have visited this cradle of forgotten civilisations, which, though designated a World Heritage Site in 2008, remains a blank page on the archaeological record, closed off by geography, politics, religion.


    “Visitors last year from abroad? I can say zero,” my guide Ahmed tells me.

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    The temples of Mada'in Saleh near Al-Ula have survived for almost 3,000 years

    This is set to change. Last July, under the impetus of Saudi Arabia’s progressive new Crown Prince, Mohammed Bin Salman, or “MBS” as he is popularly known, a Royal Commission took charge of Mada’in Saleh and its surrounds – “the crown jewel of a site that the country possesses,” says one of the archaeologists recruited to excavate it.

    In December, public access was halted; first in order to survey what actually is there, next to develop a strategy for protecting it, and then to open up Mada’in Saleh to the outside world. My advance visit is aimed at providing an amuse-bouche, as it were.

    In the bright morning sunlight, Ahmed escorts me through locked gates, past the German-built railway-line linking Damascus with Medina, which Lawrence bombed (“there are still local tribes which call their sons Al-Orans”), to the celebrated Nabatean rock tombs.

    Doughty first heard about these in Petra, 300 miles north. Fifty years earlier, an awe-struck British naval commander had gazed in disbelief at Petra’s imperishable Treasury, murmuring, as many continue to do: “There is nothing in the world that resembles it.” He was wrong.

    If a little less rosier than her sister city, Mada’in Saleh shares her capacity to stagger. Out of the flat desert, one after another, the ornate facades rise into sight, 111 of them, carved into perpendicular cliffs up to four storeys high, their low doorways decorated by Alexandrian masons in the first century AD, with Greek triangles, Roman pilasters, Arabian flowers, Egyptian sphinxes, birds.

    “This is a twin to Petra,” Ahmed says. Except that in Petra we would be bobbing among crowds.

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    Tour guide Ahmed is descended from a long line of imams

    Standing in reverent silence, with the valley to ourselves, I recall how the Victorian artist who supplied the first images of Petra to the world, David Roberts, responded to that other city. “I turned from it at length with an impression which will be effaced only by death.”

    These tombs were carved for the Nabatean tribes who ruled this region for 300 years until the Romans annexed them in 106AD. Semi-nomadic pastoralists who had settled and grown wealthy, the Nabateans controlled the lucrative spice route from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea.

    Then, like the civilisations they’d replaced, the Dedanites, the Lihyanites, the Thamuds, they galloped off into obscurity. Their tombs were looted: the acacia doors plundered for firewood, the marble statues melted to make lime for plaster, the porphyry urns smashed.

    All that survives of their caravan city, Hegra, is a flat expanse behind a wire fence: “her clay-built streets are again the blown dust in the wilderness,” Doughty wrote.

    The same desolation holds true for the still more ancient Biblical city of Dedan, situated on the lip of an oasis a few minutes drive way. To visit both sites is to gain the sense of a narrative even now being worked out. Until the 20th century the story of these civilisations was scrawled on the rocks in Nabatean or Thamudic script. Ahmed leads me between two steep cliffs to the oldest inscription, written 6,000 years ago.

    Saudi Arabia's hidden archaeological treasures
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    Tombs in Mada'in Saleh were decorated by Alexandrian masons in the first century with Greek, Roman and Arabian symbols

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    The ancient Biblical city of Dedan is situated on the lip of an oasis

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    Cliffs formed out of red and black sandstone have eroded into crazy, hallucinatory shapes such as elephants, mushrooms, and seals
    Nicholas Shakespeare
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    Ancient Dedan inscriptions. Holes in the rock floor denote a sacrificial spot from the time of the Dedanites
    Nicholas Shakespeare
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    A street in the old town of Al-Ula

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    Mada'in Saleh, the archaeological site with the Nabatean tomb from the first century
    Nicholas Shakespeare
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    Ahmed comes from a long line of imams descended from a grand tribal judge who arrived c1400 in Al Ula’s 'old town'
    Nicholas Shakespeare

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    The cliffs in the distance: out of the flat desert, one after another, the ornate facades rise into sight, 111 of them, carved into perpendicular cliffs up to four storeys high
    Nicholas Shakespeare
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    The temples of Mada'in Saleh near Al-Ula have survived for 3,000 years
    Nicholas Shakespeare
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    'Charles' is scratched on the oat-coloured mud wall not by Charles Doughty but by Prince Charles (in 2015, with his key)
    Nicholas Shakespeare
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    Al Gharamil

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    Mada'in Saleh tombs

    Below, a square hole in the rock floor denotes a sacrificial spot from the time of the Dedanites. Ahmed could be speaking of the cavity in the historical record when he says, “They were making sacrifices to one god, Dhu-Ghaibat, which means ‘the one who is absent’.”

    Out in the desert, the wind has chiselled its own mysterious deities and hieroglyphs. The scene is stunning. In Petra, which forms part of the same massif, David Roberts threw away his pencil in despair at being able to convey it, believing that the ruins “sink into insignificance when compared with these stupendous rocks”.

    It’s hard to disagree. Cliffs formed out of red and black sandstone have eroded into crazy, hallucinatory shapes: elephants, mushrooms, braying seals. If they were transcribed into music, it would be Wagnerian.


    They make you believe in mountain gods, I tell Ahmed, who smiles. “I never try smoking weed, but when I hear someone react, I feel like that. It makes you high, naturally.”

    For sheer high spirits, no one yields to the British archaeologist I meet that night. Jamie Quartermain is part of an international team employed since March to survey these sites.

    A surveyor who pioneered the use of drones, Quartermain says: “We’ve been wanting to get involved here, but Saudi has been a closed shop, a completely untapped reserve."


    "The perception is that it’s big, open desert. When I tried to find out anything about it, there was essentially one book. The discovery that there are so many archaeological sites is a big shock for most people. It was a big shock for me.”

    Advised by the Royal Commission to expect 450 unexcavated sites, Quartermain estimates the truer number between 6,000-10,000. “The survival of the archaeology is remarkable, some of the best condition remains I’ve ever seen. We’re not finding it close to the surface, it’s above surface, well and truly visible.”


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    Ancient Dedan inscriptions. Holes in the rock floor denote a sacrificial spot from the time of the Dedanites

    Deploying a drone, he has begun creating a three-dimensional textural surface of the area. Already, what he has found is ground-breaking. “You can see all the archaeology jumping out and biting you on the bottom.”


    When, aged 20, I visited Petra, sleeping in one of the caves, I talked to the head of the Bdoul tribe, allegedly descendants of the Nabateans, who told me: “We have a saying that the more wealth you have, the more brain cells you need to be able to cope with it.

    What impresses about MBS’s plan for Mada’in Saleh is his determination to use his nation’s resources to avoid the pitfalls of Petra.

    “Wadi Rum is pretty disastrous,” says Chris Tuttle, an American archaeologist seconded to the project. Tuttle spent many years excavating in Petra. He saw at first hand the ruinous impact of tourism, both on the ruins and the local community.


    By contrast, in Al-Ula, the local town for Mada’in Saleh, there has been a concerted drive to educate the locals, giving scholarships to 150 children, but also to attract experts armed with the latest methodol

    One reason for the blankness on Saudi Arabia’s archaeological map, says Tuttle, has been the resistance of conservative religious leaders to question their history. “You don’t need to study the past when you’ve been given a manual from God.”

    Suddenly, a multi-thousand-year-old story has become an open book, not a closed one, and the revelation it contains could be a complex of sites more significant even than Petra. My guide Ahmed Alimam is a perfect representative of Al-Ula’s past and future. He comes from a long line of imams descended from a grand tribal judge who arrived c1400 in Al Ula’s “old town”


    Abandoned in 1983, the year of Ahmed’s birth, this haunting labyrinth of mud houses and twisting streets replaced Dedan and Hegra. It was built using stones from those cities. They can be seen fortifying the occasional doorway.

    Ahmed leads the way down an empty street to the house where his parents used to live – collapsed beams, upturned crates. He shows me the mosque, erected over the spot where the Prophet Mohammed stopped in 630AD, and with a goat bone drew in the sand the direction of Medina; Ahmed’s uncle was the last imam.

    And a modern inscription: the name “Charles”, scratched on the oat-coloured mud wall not, as momentarily I’d hoped, by Charles Doughty, but by Prince Charles (in 2015, with his key), and below it the Islamic translation.


    During the Islamic period, Al-Ula, or El-Ally as Doughty knew it, became an important station on the haj road south, and marked the last place where Christians were permitted to travel. Ibn Battuta described how pilgrim caravans paused here for four days to resupply and wash, and to leave any excess baggage with the townspeople “who are known for their trustworthiness”.

    “I hope we are still doing our best to be like that,” Ahmed says. “You can try, if you want, to leave something.”

    The only thing I left behind after my four days here was an urge to come back.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...y-alhijir-petra-charles-doughty-a8373686.html

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    I agree wholeheartedly. A balance is very important when it comes to gender relations but I believe that this is already an natural feature of Arab culture.

    BTW what you described about women in the West, this is mostly confined to Western and Northern Europe. Eastern Europe and most of Southern Europe is not like that. At least the old generation. Their family values are more traditional and healthy as I call it. In many ways similar to traditional Arab family values, if we remove the religious aspects but in any case both Islam and Christianity are Abrahamic religions and very similar by large.

    Anyway this "Feminazi" attitude from women in the Arab world only (mostly) comes from Atheist (vocal) Arab females.

    The likes of this one.:lol:



    Cute but no comment. Love the English accent though.:lol: Comments from Westerners (vagina-worship) as expected.:lol: They want to save her!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  15. Aramagedon

    Aramagedon SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yet cucumber and tomato are banned for women in Saudia.