• Saturday, October 19, 2019

Featured Anatomy of the Hatf-VIII Ra’ad Air Launched Cruise Missile

Discussion in 'Pakistan Strategic Forces' started by JamD, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Bratva

    Bratva PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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  2. Nigel Farrage

    Nigel Farrage FULL MEMBER

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    I thought that's an animation. isn't it?

    BTW the same "Pod video" also appears in every test, I just checked 2011 test,it has the exact same "Pod video ".
    2016 one is different.
     
  3. Bratva

    Bratva PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    low quality camera with which they shoot the video makes it look like an animation
     
  4. Mysticbuddy

    Mysticbuddy FULL MEMBER

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    It is not . It has been limited to 290 km. Anyways it's a member now.
     
  5. Quwa

    Quwa Research Partner

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    Thank you for your response sir. I have no disrespect for those serve, just as I have no disrespect for the humanitarians who go into dangerous areas of the world to help their fellow human beings, or the political activists who stand up against tyranny with nothing but their words, only to get hit by aggression (with no means to materially respond).

    But my conversation with you isn't about you as an individual or even the ACM as an individual, but of the PAF as an agency of the Pakistani state. It is an institution at the end of the day, and I believe that an institution must be accountable to those it serves. If it is indeed the case that civilian experts (actual ones) are being roped in to provide guidance or to keep tabs on the JF-17 or other programs, then great, I don't need to know the details. I was just worried that this was not considered or forgotten in your earlier statements.
     
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  6. Oscar

    Oscar ADVISORS

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    Finally glad that we have a thread that reflects what both admin and think tank always hoped discussions on PDF to be like. Great work @JamD @amardeep mishra
     
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  7. ConcealCarry

    ConcealCarry FULL MEMBER

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    Really? so the doctrine should come from public, like the ones on this forum? Comon

    No! common man has no right to ask an institution what they are doing, specially when the nature of their work is confidential and revolves around country's defence. These institutions have tasks given by government according to it's priorities, importance and fund availability, and that is what they do. they are responsible and accountable to their master (the government) not the public.

    missiles and tanks hang pretty low and don't interfere with the flaps. 2D pics don't tell the full story


    [​IMG]


    that is unprofessional and uncalled for. If you want people to respect you, you need to respect other regardless what their opinions are.

    This is a public forum and it's beauty comes from different points of view, if everyone was saying the same thing, it wouldn't be interesting. A teams strength comes from difference of opinion, from conflict that leads to new thinking. Because you come from a military background, where contradicting seniors and colleagues is generally avoided as it is equated to indiscipline, you probably don't appreciate it much. But in private organizations it is encouraged and appreciated.

    This part is so lame, so by your logic, if you hire a night guard who is supposed to perform guard duty while you sleep, just because he is awake all night he is not accountable to you for what he does at night?

    Don't equate objective critique to negativity. If you can't comprehend what he says, then it's your fault not his.

    I think its straight forward 300 km limit from point of flight to point of impact.


    You tube is your friend. Find a friend to interview you and you can give your point of view. how cool is that?

    nice illustrations and the point 2D pics don't tell the full story and pixel counts are pixel counts not the exact geometry.

    Looking at this vid, it looks like dimensions wise launching Ra'ad from Thunder should not be a problem.

     
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  8. amardeep mishra

    amardeep mishra FULL MEMBER

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    @Oscar
    That is correct,we must have "literature-backed" discussions based on hard scientific literature. The problem though,as i see it,a lot of folks might not be able to follow the rigorous mathematics.
     
  9. Oscar

    Oscar ADVISORS

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    As I suggested to you a while before.
    I have read and understand both
    https://www.amazon.com/Mechanics-Flight-11th-R-H-Barnard/dp/1405823593
    https://www.amazon.com/Flight-witho...TF8&qid=1467259009&sr=1-6&keywords=ac+kermode

    And have thankfully learnt when and where to use both. Suggest you get both these, as regardless of forums; they are a joy to read.
     
  10. Nigel Farrage

    Nigel Farrage FULL MEMBER

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    A bit off mate.
    The wheel track of Thunder is 2.54 meters not 2.24 meters as per your pixels calculations. But that margin of error is expected in this type of work. Or an error margin of 12%, in your case.
     
  11. amardeep mishra

    amardeep mishra FULL MEMBER

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    Hi dear @Oscar
    I already have both the books you mentioned,but i find them lacking in rigorous mathematics vis-a-vis books like mc'ruer,nelson or even donald mc'lean etc.
    Here is my collection.Kindly go through them.
    amar1.png
    amar2.png


    FOr me,these are my favourite books on flight dynamics- in the decreasing order-
    1)Mc'Ruer
    2)Nelson
    3)Roskam
    4)brian L stevens
    I mean to be brutally honest,there is no SINGLE books that explains you all the concepts with indepth insights the way you want.One would have to refer to at least 5 books to get a grip.For instance Concepts of frame transformation and development of equation of motion 12 eqn model is best explained very rigorously in Mc'ruer.However nelson is more control oriented.brian L steven basically explains Mc'ruers works in easy to understand mathematical construct-hence it is highly recommended for beginners.

    However for missile guidance nothing beats
    1)Missile guidance and control- george M sioris
    2)Automatic control of Missiles-J blakelock

    Even one of my professor has authored a very good book on flight dynamics but his approach is quite different and is more theoretical analysis based on bifurcation theory/continuation analysis
     
  12. Nigel Farrage

    Nigel Farrage FULL MEMBER

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    Thats because we are not here to do a PHD or write a research thesis. Just a discussion which everyone or at least most people can understand.
     
  13. Oscar

    Oscar ADVISORS

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    Which is why I mentioned them for lacking in rigorous mathematics. They do not dwell on the Excessive theories of what is essential to understand flight, they are precise and to the point. The extended mathematics and theory is focused on those looking to develop systems.
    Yet, these two were sufficient during a project for me that involved a cousin of the system under discussion. Someone else with a PhD or two along with their team did the flight dynamics, all I needed to understand was not why a fluid molecule will behave due to what equation, but what AoA of the control surface would create what movement. Suffice to say, that system performs flawlessly and has excellent performance characteristics; it will also probably not see the light of day until maybe 10 years from now when maybe some wonderful people at NDC might write a history of the place like Munir Akram did.

    What you are trying to get into would make sense if you got up now and try to work on the AMCA and actually design its wing. But for someone to be able to look at a wing and understand its basic characteristics and get an estimate of how it effects the aircraft's performance; books like these would be sufficient.

    P.S Although I would recommend Bernard's book as even with a little skimming over the more terse equations it has well explained theory for those looking to go beyond just understanding flight in depth.
     
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  14. Nigel Farrage

    Nigel Farrage FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. amardeep mishra

    amardeep mishra FULL MEMBER

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    Hi dear @Oscar
    Designing various aircraft components particularly wings,etc is the job of aerodynamicist- it is entirely different from flight dynamics. Control Engineering aspect of aircraft comes in the end when the an aerodynamicist has done his job. I am basically a control engineer,(no amount of aerospace will turn me into an aerodynamicist lol) and as a control engineer one must know the dynamics of any process(be it aircraft,nuclear reactors,nuclear submarines or your oil rig!) he/she wishes to control.

    On more serious note though,ADA has already designed the wings and the basic layout of AMCA is frozen. System level design will commence soon.A lot of engineers working on AMCA are also research assistants/pursue MS/PhD at IITs.And Unlike pakistan their research is definitely published or patented!- our research is very transparent
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016