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Featured Anatolian Eagle 2021 - JF-17 To Pitch Against Rafale and Vipers

Ghessan

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with this exercise, which is obviously for understanding the behavior and performance of Rafael and JF-17 performing against it. and then upon conclusions PAF pilots will develop some tactics and train.

PAF will develop new tactics and measures with existing radar and ecm on JF-17
and then there will be a need to assess aesa radar and ecm on block III.

i think PAF need to upgrade earlier blocks as soon as possible.
 

iLION12345_1

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I know all what you have written and I have been saying the same at various threads & in various comments, maybe you haven't noticed my previous remarks. I am just responding to people claiming that our JF is "so great" that PAF is pitching it against Rafale and the video that I have quoted. I'm simply saying it isn't, it can't be, and yes it wasn't design to be. Plus it has a weak engine, as seen in the air shows. It isn't very agile even without any load on it. Add 4000Kgs of fuel and bombs on it and it would really become a sitting duck. JF can't be used on deep penetration bombarding, its just an interceptor. Small fuel tank, less load carrying capability, only 7 hard points. This means if we try to send it for deep penetration and bombardment, your jet will carry 2 x Fuel tanks, 2 x SD10s, 2 x glided bombs, 1 x optical pod for stealth and saving detection time. Hence after doing its bombardment mission, it would be low on fuel and will be carrying just 2 SD10s to defend itself! Even the gun it has is pretty basic and not good! Just 2 shots at enemy and then you are done! can't fight, can't run too fast or you will finish you fuel! If it is intercepted on the way back by more than 1 enemy aircraft, JF is gone. Hence its just a support fighter. We literally have only 75 F16s as of now(Even in these we know not all are high tech). Add 135+ JFs for defending our airspace and forget the rest of the crapy F7s and mirages.

We are lucky that our adversary itself is crappy and has an obsolete fleet. Otherwise the best we have are 18 block 52 F16s.




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The link doesn't say they said that. But I'd assume after kicking the butt down of old mirages, they will say such things for good sportsman spirit. What else? You expect them to be laughing and making faces to us? :omghaha: hehe.. whoever made such statements, I will take it with a grain of salt. The mirages are so bad, listen to what Mr. Kaiser Tufail has to say about them in his interview to "aircraft interview" youtube channel. They bleed lift and energy like crazy, he isn't a fan of delta wing design. They were good in their times but off course not now.
I didn’t know about your previous posts, but Your current argument is also not true as you’re going to the opposite extreme, you’re counting all the roles JF-17 was never made to perform and then calling it a bad fighter, but you don’t look at the roles it can perform very well for a fraction of the cost of a similar fighter. You also forget that half of the enemy fleet will never see combat against Pakistan because they’ll be deployed to counter China. You forget that our F-16s were modernized. You forget that the PAF obviously realizes this and will get another, larger fighter to support then JF. You forget the enemies inability to use their aircraft properly. You forget all the advantages that come from having a local aircraft, no matter how “bad” it is.

Deep strikes are impossible on both india and Pakistan due to the AD and AF capabilities of both sides, you could not dream of striking Delhi or Islamabad with F35s let alone JF-17s. BTW…your “only an interceptor” carried our 3 strikes on 27th February without a single loss and 100% success.

PAF has always been smaller and less capable on paper, just like PA, but in every war we’re shown how that doesn’t matter as much as people think, and this is by no miracle of will, it’s because the numerical and technical advantage exists only on paper, once we get to an actual conflict there’s enough factors to cancel that out, but that’s another long winded discussion. Bottom line is, Things are a lot less bleak than your numbers will claim. which again can never tell the full story of an aircraft. And please stop looking at air shows to decide how agile an aircraft is, that is not a good indication of anything. Nor is your deduction of “weak engine” and “too low fuel capacity” a demerit to a light aircraft that doesn’t need as much of either as a larger aircraft… It’s fuel is limited by its size and role, which has steadily increased in new blocks (also A2A refueling) and engine is currently limited out of necessity (93MA and WS-13…)

I also completely disagree with the people who say the JF-17 is even close to a a Rafale or even an F-16 in capability, or the ones that still claim F7PGs or mirages are good aircraft, because they often try to make it sound like we’re using them by choice and not out of absolute necessity of being a poor country. They’re usually delusional patriots too. (Plus All of these reports from exercises are usually BS hyperbole, every Air Force claims their MiG-21s shot down F35s in every exercises, but I don’t think the French were trying to make us feel better after they “kicked the assess” of our mirages. More than likely they were not expecting such an old aircraft to do even as well as it did, even if it did nothing special)

A single JF-17 is NOT a better aircraft than a Rafale. But if you had an equal amount of money to spend then the JF-17 is Definitely better than a Rafale for PAF because 5:1 will always mean superiority. But JF-17 isn’t the only aircraft PAF does and will operate and the Rafale isn’t the only aircraft IAF does and will operate. PAF doesn’t need to be nearly as big and as capable to counter the IAF due to the dozens of external factors. And IAF is the only Air Force we need to worry about, so why should we worry about being better than some other Air Force?

I’m not a person who believes in nationalistic hyperbole about our military equipment, it’s good to call a spade a spade. But Pakistanis have a habit of going to the two extremes of something being the absolute best or the absolute worst. That’s why I ask you to be realistic. But we’re getting way off topic so it’s best to carry out this discussion elsewhere now.

On an unrelated note, Deltas are not an outdated design, the EF and Rafale are both delta-wing aircraft. So is the Thunder…granted not of the same types. He flew on F-16s, of course he found the mirage to be inferior, it’s an old aircraft.
 

Reichmarshal

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In today air warfare environment, no ac working alone can succeed. All ac work with other ac and ground based systems to achieve optimum results.
Which is the clear outcome of feb 27. As at least on paper mki is a superior ac and when the bison is used in a high/low configuration, it becomes a deadly combo.
But superior electronics warfare and area denial by PAF it won the day hands down.
 

Zarvan

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Does anyone here has seen any articles or videos on Indian media about this exercise ?
 

Windjammer

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The link doesn't say they said that. But I'd assume after kicking the butt down of old mirages, they will say such things for good sportsman spirit. What else? You expect them to be laughing and making faces to us? :omghaha: hehe.. whoever made such statements, I will take it with a grain of salt. The mirages are so bad, listen to what Mr. Kaiser Tufail has to say about them in his interview to "aircraft interview" youtube channel. They bleed lift and energy like crazy, he isn't a fan of delta wing design. They were good in their times but off course not now.
In case you haven't noticed,
The link is not exactly a report filed by the French journalist on post exercise, it's for you to understand that an exercise involving the types did materialised back in 2006. You can find the report on the French carriers journey and the exercises it did with various Air forces in some edition of AFM including with Indian Sea Harriers.
And you have no personal experience and only quoting left right and centre.
No one expected Mirages to out flank the Rafales but they proved a worthy adversely.
At the end of the day, Mirages could boast of years of combat experience and several air victories while the Rafale has perhaps some Tanks and Guns under its belt.
 

Darth Vader

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Hopefully, this will be a good learning experience for PAF And TuAF.
Will it Outperform other aircraft may be in some cases as most of these exercises are like a controlled experiment that limits the usage of full capabilities a plane can offer.
Thunder was never designed as a 5th Gen or 4.5++ Gen or a True Air Superiority fighter.
The process started as a Budget-friendly replacement of legacy aircraft with a modern aircraft that can perform these roles in the modern age and then adapted to pushing the limitation of the aircraft.

The biggest benefit of this plane is its price and how easy it to upgrade it is.
With its Price and Advancement made by china Pakistan have a very cheap 4th Gen aircraft with some 4.5++ features with Decent EW, Decent BVR and its size and price it's a highly capable system currently biggest issue is the Engine but currently for Pakistani need and it's more than enough as Pakistan will not use aircrafts to target deep inside indian territory majority, and BVR will be the first offensive system used by both sides overall and majority WVR combat most probably will be limited to only a few areas

For Export i would say china need to work hard on WS engine.
 

FuturePAF

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Don’t worry about the Rafales, the Qataris flying them were literally trained by the PAF, we’ve had this discussion before. Qatari media reported years ago that the first pilots and ground crew to train on their Rafales were Pakistani…The PAF knows everything it needs to about them.
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Let’s focus on the JFs for now, they’ll learn some new stuff for sure, can’t wait for the pictures.
It would be nice if they ended the exercise with a few nice pictures of the JF-17 Flying side by side with the Rafale. Maybe even a picture of a Rafale in the “gunsights” of a JF-17. ;)

Hope this exercise outlines where the JF-17 will need to improve, both electronically and kinematically (such as engine performance needed to achieve the desired TWR and power for the electronics)
 
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Bossman

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It would be nice if they ended the exercise with a few nice pictures of the JF-17 Flying side by side with the Rafale. Maybe even a picture of a Rafale in the “gunsights” of a JF-17. ;)

Hope this exercise outlines where the JF-17 will need to improve, both electronically and kinematically (such as engine performance needed to achieve the desired TWR and power for the electronics)
Pictures with Rafales will be great but I want see pictures of our pilots after a mission with the Rafales. Their faces and body language will say a lot.
 

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