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Featured Anatolian Eagle 2021 - JF-17 To Pitch Against Rafale and Vipers

DrWatson775

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read this book last year
"Psyche of the Pakistan Air Force" by Pushpindar Singh
states that after landing of F-16 in the subcontinent Indian air force end up buying Mig-29, Mirage 2000, Su-30, and is still unable to gain an edge in air superiority.
and now Rafales. soon mantra of rafales will be over just like Su-30MKI.
the perception that the maximum range of meteor will be used by IAF to gain an advantage is wrong. future engagement will be closer than expected only tactics will be the true definition of superiority.
Good book with a few caveats but overall good. Read it in '99 or 2000 I think.
The side with the most jamming resistant network centric system, efficient chain of command and quick action on information/intelligence will come on top; regardless of Meteor , Brahmos, PLs, AIM 120s. Publicly available info suggests PAF is ahead in this.
 

The Raven

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Good book with a few caveats but overall good. Read it in '99 or 2000 I think.
The side with the most jamming resistant network centric system, efficient chain of command and quick action on information/intelligence will come on top; regardless of Meteor , Brahmos, PLs, AIM 120s. Publicly available info suggests PAF is ahead in this.
This was blatantly apparent in Feb 2019, and the investments which the PAF is making now will ensure that edge for the years to come.
 

Trailer23

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No dual seater Jf-17 thunder in Anatolian eagle exercise?
Nope. Still up for debate what the role of B-variant truly is other than Training.

Its not like its a Growler-type EW jet..., currently.

When I asked a few officers of the PAF/PAC (during the DxB Air Show) if the B-variant was going to be used for EW, the answer was clearly "No".
 

Nomad40

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Nope. Still up for debate what the role of B-variant truly is other than Training.

Its not like its a Growler-type EW jet..., currently.

When I asked a few officers of the PAF/PAC (during the DxB Air Show) if the B-variant was going to be used for EW, the answer was clearly "No".
Remember when PDF was hot on LIFT for PAF.....well now they've got it. Besides if any one is still wondering about the JF-17B it is pretty much what I have stated before what it would Mean for the PAF.

Advanced Fighter Trainer - (Trains PAF Fighter pilots on a 4th Generation fighting platform)
Strike Platform /A-G Weapons delivery system - (Deep strike Capability if need be!)
.
.
.
Air interdiction
 

Big_bud

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Lo ge...another expert who know Jack shit but waffles pages of crap
Did you bother to read my previous and further comments before professing your beautiful upbringing? Don't quote my comments with your jacks and shits. I don't care what you think, if you had bothered to follow this thread and other threads on this topic you would have kept up. I can't be bothered to repeat myself. Take your waffles somewhere else.
 

PradoTLC

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Usually, they do not turn on ECM for exercise. So regards to state of art electronic from each individual are still unknown.

The only thing can see from each other are the agility and flight capabilities of each fighter.


and tactics..

however in case of full blown allies like US & UK and for that matter China and Pakistan the full scale of capabilities are explored.


the last exerices with Chinese airfares & PAF revealed the following

JF-17 toasted all ground strike aircraft however v Su-30s JF-17 were all splashed. Such tactic were instrumental against IAF a year later where F-16s were in the lead and JF-17 tied as escorts or specifcally baits for the Su-30s.
 
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Deltadart

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You are very wrong. We know the JF-17 with PL-15 is invincible against the Rafale based on all the expert talk here on PDF. There is no way anyone here can argue against it. I don't even understand why you guys keep comparing the mighty Thunder against the Rafale, the Thunder needs to be pitted against better aircraft. There are no victories against the already conquered -- at least on PDF. However, the outside world is starkly different.
So complains a pajeet from the lala fantasy land.
 

ummarz

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Did you bother to read my previous and further comments before professing your beautiful upbringing? Don't quote my comments with your jacks and shits. I don't care what you think, if you had bothered to follow this thread and other threads on this topic you would have kept up. I can't be bothered to repeat myself. Take your waffles somewhere else.
If you don't mind, going through this thread, this is what I observed.

I feel like you are arguing for point A, where as the others are arguing for point B. To you it seems those arguing for point B are against point A. and vice versa. I feel both parties are right in their arguments.

Your argument is that JF-17 can't substitute for Tier One aircrafts like, the latest F-16, Rafael, SU 30 etc.
Their argument is that JF-17 was meant as a substitute for F7, but it turned out much better than just that, and can put up a fight (albeit a losing one) against Indias top jets. Even Rafael if BLK III is considered.

If we combine the above points A+B, we can see the full picture. And both parties are correct in their assessment.

Conclusion:

JF-17 was meant as a substitute for Mirage, F-7 going into the 21st century. And it does all that very well, maybe even better than expected. Yes it is a light aircraft. Which for Pakistan (being a long and narrow country) isn't as big a issue as it would be for other countries. With block III coming, it is not something that can be thrown aside by our enemy. Yet at the same time, it is not and should not be considered as the lead aircraft in our line up. But it makes for a hell of a jet for supporting the leads. For Pakistan its lack of range is not as much a issue. The jet wasn't made for strike missions deep into India. Its role is defensive in nature, which it can do very well. As most area of operations near Indian border aren't that far from the airbases (due to Pakistan being long and narrow). So that leaves us with looking for a Tier one aircraft. That has deep strike capability and one that can manage its energy better.


Closing thoughts:

If you look at the JF-17 objectively, it might not seem all that great, especially when compared to F-16, F-18 and the likes. But when you look at it from the lens of Pakistan, the difference between F-16 and JF-17 in performance is very well balanced out by the geography of the nation, as well as the economics and logistics of having our own jet. And PAF has prepared a very comprehensive network of air defence and electronic warfare systems, as well as tactics hand crafted for our main enemy.
 

litman

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If you don't mind, going through this thread, this is what I observed.

I feel like you are arguing for point A, where as the others are arguing for point B. To you it seems those arguing for point B are against point A. and vice versa. I feel both parties are right in their arguments.

Your argument is that JF-17 can't substitute for Tier One aircrafts like, the latest F-16, Rafael, SU 30 etc.
Their argument is that JF-17 was meant as a substitute for F7, but it turned out much better than just that, and can put up a fight (albeit a losing one) against Indias top jets. Even Rafael if BLK III is considered.

If we combine the above points A+B, we can see the full picture. And both parties are correct in their assessment.

Conclusion:

JF-17 was meant as a substitute for Mirage, F-7 going into the 21st century. And it does all that very well, maybe even better than expected. Yes it is a light aircraft. Which for Pakistan (being a long and narrow country) isn't as big a issue as it would be for other countries. With block III coming, it is not something that can be thrown aside by our enemy. Yet at the same time, it is not and should not be considered as the lead aircraft in our line up. But it makes for a hell of a jet for supporting the leads. For Pakistan its lack of range is not as much a issue. The jet wasn't made for strike missions deep into India. Its role is defensive in nature, which it can do very well. As most area of operations near Indian border aren't that far from the airbases (due to Pakistan being long and narrow). So that leaves us with looking for a Tier one aircraft. That has deep strike capability and one that can manage its energy better.


Closing thoughts:

If you look at the JF-17 objectively, it might not seem all that great, especially when compared to F-16, F-18 and the likes. But when you look at it from the lens of Pakistan, the difference between F-16 and JF-17 in performance is very well balanced out by the geography of the nation, as well as the economics and logistics of having our own jet. And PAF has prepared a very comprehensive network of air defence and electronic warfare systems, as well as tactics hand crafted for our main enemy.
In the India-Pak scenario no 4th gen jet can carry out deep strikes into enemy territory. Almost complete strike package will be annihilated. No rafale, ,Su 30 , Mirage 2000, F-16 will be spared by the defending air force consisting of AWACS, 4th gen jets with BVR missiles like AIM 120, R77 , meteor, PL 15, SAMs like S 400 , SPADA etc. Feb 27 made it clear that today how difficult and dangerous is for any 4th gen jet to survive in high threat environment. More then 20 air crafts were used by both air forces just to drop some bombs close to the border into the jungle. How many air crafts will be required to strike deep into the enemy territory. The range of the ALCM carried by the strike air crafts will determine the max ability of how far strike air crafts can carry out their missions from staying inside their own air space.
JF 17 with SD 10 or PL 15 supported by AWACs is quite capable of handling any indian intruding jet. It also has decent capability now to launch air to ground strikes with REKs and RAAD( which has been integrated with it I think , not sure though). Similarly for air to see role all the latest weapons are already been integrated with it. So for our requirements JFT + F-16 can do the job till the induction of 5th gen jet. Till that time leave the deep strike missions to cruise missiles and other ballistic missiles.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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In the India-Pak scenario no 4th gen jet can carry out deep strikes into enemy territory. Almost complete strike package will be annihilated. No rafale, ,Su 30 , Mirage 2000, F-16 will be spared by the defending air force consisting of AWACS, 4th gen jets with BVR missiles like AIM 120, R77 , meteor, PL 15, SAMs like S 400 , SPADA etc. Feb 27 made it clear that today how difficult and dangerous is for any 4th gen jet to survive in high threat environment. More then 20 air crafts were used by both air forces just to drop some bombs close to the border into the jungle. How many air crafts will be required to strike deep into the enemy territory. The range of the ALCM carried by the strike air crafts will determine the max ability of how far strike air crafts can carry out their missions from staying inside their own air space.
JF 17 with SD 10 or PL 15 supported by AWACs is quite capable of handling any indian intruding jet. It also has decent capability now to launch air to ground strikes with REKs and RAAD( which has been integrated with it I think , not sure though). Similarly for air to see role all the latest weapons are already been integrated with it. So for our requirements JFT + F-16 can do the job till the induction of 5th gen jet. Till that time leave the deep strike missions to cruise missiles and other ballistic missiles.
So, the side with the more potent, intelligent and numerous stealthy jet powered combat and attack UAVs will ultimately gain the air superiority.....
 

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