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Analysis: PAF's Fighter Modernization Roadmap (Part-1)

Paksanity

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well yes it does make sense, the gap of not buying anything would be used to payoff the debts. i read the zd3's were not needed as the erieye was more capable, but were purchased as musharaf wanted to further improve ties with china?
$275 million down the drain.
also what you said about falling export and climbing debts and imports. not to forget expensive qatari lng.
Qatari LNG isn't expensive at the source especially when compared to Iranian gas. If they introduce a middleman (read politician's front men) then it may be expensive.
 

Quwa

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For once though, the general's self interests did pay certain dividends as the ZDK has turned out be actually more capable than the Erieye(in service with the PAF) in certain environments and definitely in range.
Compound that with the fact that the ZDK03 came for a really low cost, i.e. 4 for the price of 1 Erieye!

I imagine if we had more financial flexibility, we'd be doing some neat developmental stuff with Chinese AEW&C technology, e.g. working on a system with more consoles (i.e. larger platform), using an executive jet, etc.
 

SQ8

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Compound that with the fact that the ZDK03 came for a really low cost, i.e. 4 for the price of 1 Erieye!

I imagine if we had more financial flexibility, we'd be doing some neat developmental stuff with Chinese AEW&C technology, e.g. working on a system with more consoles (i.e. larger platform), using an executive jet, etc.
I doubt we would be doing that. Simply because the current platform (Y-9) is rather well suited to long range loitering and recce. Its only disadvantage is speed in outrunning enemy attack.

The only other platform that would be suitable to that would be the COMAC C-919.
 

rockstar08

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How much?
Considering that we have massive international debt servicing to do, have massive internal circular debt to try and stave off for a while.. then have the current regular payments for the loans of JF-17. ZDK, Erieye, and so on.
ZDK and Erieye are on Loans :( ?
as Quwa mentioned , F-16 older blocks , we can get it on really cheap price .. and than wait a bit to upgrade them by Turks TAI .. you think it might happen ? without disturbing the Economy much ?
 

Blue Marlin

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For once though, the general's self interests did pay certain dividends as the ZDK has turned out be actually more capable than the Erieye(in service with the PAF) in certain environments and definitely in range.
well range.... yes, but what about object size's? and is resilience to jamming and its capability in a environment with a huge amount of signals. anyway forget the sdk.

whats your opinion on which is pakistans future 5th gen fighter?
and what would you like them to have? if you had the choice and why?
 
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I doubt we would be doing that. Simply because the current platform (Y-9) is rather well suited to long range loitering and recce. Its only disadvantage is speed in outrunning enemy attack.

The only other platform that would be suitable to that would be the COMAC C-919.
As someone who's worked in the PAF branch could you disclose why the
hierarchy turned down the J10 was it down to performance?
 

Quwa

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I doubt we would be doing that. Simply because the current platform (Y-9) is rather well suited to long range loitering and recce. Its only disadvantage is speed in outrunning enemy attack.

The only other platform that would be suitable to that would be the COMAC C-919.
Throwing it out there... Using the Airbus A320 would be nice, for AEW&C and MPA (perhaps using the Saab Swordfish system).
ZDK and Erieye are on Loans :( ?
as Quwa mentioned , F-16 older blocks , we can get it on really cheap price .. and than wait a bit to upgrade them by Turks TAI .. you think it might happen ? without disturbing the Economy much ?
It'll depend on how much the PAF can spare. Putting an F-16 through SLEP and MLU or CCIP would cost $30-35 million a unit. That's half the price of a new-built F-16, but in the range of a new-built JF-17 Block-III. I think the PAF will just focus on trying to get used F-16s that are already capable of using AMRAAM and AIM-9M-8/9.
 
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Throwing it out there... Using the Airbus A320 would be nice, for AEW&C and MPA (perhaps using the Saab Swordfish system).

It'll depend on how much the PAF can spare. Putting an F-16 through SLEP and MLU or CCIP would cost $30-35 million a unit. That's half the price of a new-built F-16, but in the range of a new-built JF-17 Block-III. I think the PAF will just focus on trying to get used F-16s that are already capable of using AMRAAM and AIM-9M-8/9.
Aerodynamically the block 3 will still have a disadvantage over the F16, the F16 is more monuverable and has better angles of attack
 

SQ8

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Aerodynamically the block 3 will still have a disadvantage over the F16, the F16 is more monuverable and has better angles of attack
Please show the windtunnel test results and CAD cam simulations that prove that, or delete your post.

As someone who's worked in the PAF branch could you disclose why the
hierarchy turned down the J10 was it down to performance?
Where did you come up with the assumptions that the J-10 was turned down due to performance?
do you have a news report? An interview.. etc?

ZDK and Erieye are on Loans :( ?
as Quwa mentioned , F-16 older blocks , we can get it on really cheap price .. and than wait a bit to upgrade them by Turks TAI .. you think it might happen ? without disturbing the Economy much ?
They all are on loan. Only the F-16 and other ancillary equipment to support the various procruements came out of our coffer.

Availability of EDA or used F-16s depends upon flight hours in the airframe and upon the willingness of the country selling them to give them to us at an affordable price.
 
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Please show the windtunnel test results and CAD cam simulations that prove that, or delete your post.


Where did you come up with the assumptions that the J-10 was turned down due to performance?
do you have a news report? An interview.. etc?


They all are on loan. Only the F-16 and other ancillary equipment to support the various procruements came out of our coffer.

Availability of EDA or used F-16s depends upon flight hours in the airframe and upon the willingness of the country selling them to give them to us at an affordable price.
Yes the recent interview, a
Please show the windtunnel test results and CAD cam simulations that prove that, or delete your post.


Where did you come up with the assumptions that the J-10 was turned down due to performance?
do you have a news report? An interview.. etc?


They all are on loan. Only the F-16 and other ancillary equipment to support the various procruements came out of our coffer.

Availability of EDA or used F-16s depends upon flight hours in the airframe and upon the willingness of the country selling them to give them to us at an affordable price.
the chief director in his latest interview appeared u satisfied with the J10 he didn't specifically say performance was impaired but I gained the understanding that the airforce saw more reliability in the JF17
 

war&peace

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Obsession with F-16s despite repeated debacle is nothing but deeply hardwired slavery and total incompetency on part of the decision-makers.
 

SQ8

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the chief director in his latest interview appeared u satisfied with the J10 he didn't specifically say performance was impaired but I gained the understanding that the airforce saw more reliability in the JF17
Which interview? Please post the link to it since you have made the claim and highlight what time in the interview he implied what you have stated.
 

MastanKhan

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This was explained in the article.

The reasoning is quite simple. If the PAF were to procure the J-10, it would simply be acquiring another medium-weight fighter. In other words, its inclusion does not necessarily add to the PAF’s existing capabilities, at least in a significant enough way to warrant the induction of an entirely new platform. Yes, the J-10 would offer additional range, payload, and capability boosts (e.g. radar output) compared to the JF-17, but are these advantages significant enough to warrant the costs of introducing a completely new maintenance channel, especially for what will inevitably be a relatively small number of aircraft (i.e. two squadrons)? It will not.

To the PAF adding J-10 would basically be like adding Chinese-built F-16s, but for a higher cost than just buying used American F-16s. And for what? An F-16-type plane?

The PAF is basically deciding to spend a comparatively less amount of money on a handful of new F-16s and some more used F-16s, with the rest going into JF-17.

Hi,

If this is all you have been able to understand thru all the discussion about the J10 or similar aircraft---then I feel sorry for you and for those who believe in you.

The utility of a J10 or similar aicraft is to move away from the F16 and find a different platform that is reliable in its utility and function.

At this time---procuring F16's is like getting ready to commit suicide---. Its operation at time of war is not a guarantee .
 

Quwa

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Hi,

If this is all you have been able to understand thru all the discussion about the J10 or similar aircraft---then I feel sorry for you and for those who believe in you.

The utility of a J10 or similar aicraft is to move away from the F16 and find a different platform that is reliable in its utility and function.

At this time---procuring F16's is like getting ready to commit suicide---. Its operation at time of war is not a guarantee .
To be less sanction prone, that was and is the purpose of the JF-17. PAF is basically doubling down on it and is using what little is left on used and subsidized new F-16s.
 

rockstar08

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Availability of EDA or used F-16s depends upon flight hours in the airframe and upon the willingness of the country selling them to give them to us at an affordable price.
If we want to buy used F-16's from another country like EU or Jordan , do we have take NOC from US ?or in any way US can block the sell ? ask the seller to stop the sell ? or the selling rights is in complete control of the Operating country ?

Throwing it out there... Using the Airbus A320 would be nice, for AEW&C and MPA (perhaps using the Saab Swordfish system).

It'll depend on how much the PAF can spare. Putting an F-16 through SLEP and MLU or CCIP would cost $30-35 million a unit. That's half the price of a new-built F-16, but in the range of a new-built JF-17 Block-III. I think the PAF will just focus on trying to get used F-16s that are already capable of using AMRAAM and AIM-9M-8/9.
Availability of used F-16 always remain a unanswered question for PAF , the price and performance wise, F-16 can be a good addition cause we have a required setup to add more fighters without extra training or other cost .
but Europe and Pakistan relations were never been so good , recently as per Zarvans posts, Belgium is looking for a new fighter to replace old F-16's , they have 150+ F-16 A/B , block 10-15 .. we can get our hands on 18-36 , but again , US wont let that happen .

@Oscar @Quwa how will you guy rate Mig-35 ? quality and cost wise ? thrust , payload , maneuverability , and other factors ? will it be wise for PAF to look into Mig-35 ?
 
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