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Analysis by RUSI think tank

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TsAr

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https://hushkit.net/2018/01/25/so-h...-analysis-from-rusi-think-tanks-justin-bronk/

Created in China, perhaps based on an Russian idea, the JF-17 is solely in service with the Pakistan Air Force. Comparable in thrust and weight levels to the Swedish Gripen, the JF-17 is an intriguing design, but how effective is it? We asked Justin Bronk, from the Royal United Services Institute for his opinion.

“The JF-17 as an airframe is certainly competitive with the F-16, being slightly aerodynamically cleaner, with a lower wing loading but a less efficient engine than the F-16s latest F110-GE-129/132 engine options. In terms of pilot interface, sensor suite and weapon flexibility, the JF-17 is roughly at a par with 1990s-vintage F-16 Block 40/42 and could be close to the USAF-standard Block 50/52, although without the conformal fuel tanks, JHMCS helmet sighting system and radar upgrades which distinguish the later Block 50/52+ and AESA which equips the UAE’s Block 60/61s.”
How would you rate the JF-17 in terms of within-visual range (WVR) and beyond-visual range (BVR) fighter capabilities?

“WVR, equipped with the MAA-1 Piranha missile, the small and agile JF-17 will be a dangerous but not exactly world-beating opponent for existing fourth generation fighters. It is limited to +8/-3g and the current block 1 and 2 fighters do not yet have a helmet mounted sight system as standard (this is promised for block 3). The JF-17 also doesn’t have a greater than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio so would be at a significant disadvantage in terms of energy management against opponents such as the F-15C, Typhoon or Su-35. BVR, the KLJ-7 radar is significantly out-ranged by the F-16’s AN/APG-68 and completely outclassed by the Rafale’s AESA array, Typhoon’s CAPTOR-M and the Su-35’s monstrously powerful Irbis-E. The JF-17s small wing area and lightweight also limit its missile-carrying capacity which further disadvantages it in BVR engagements. However, it is worth remembering that the JF-17 is not really intended to take on Typhoons, Rafales, F-15s or Su-35s. It is meant to be a cheap and cheerful light multirole fighter and configured accordingly.”
 

aliyusuf

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KLJ-7 radar is significantly out-ranged by the F-16’s AN/APG-68
It is my opinion that is not the case with KLJ-7(V)2 anymore. All Block-IIs have this radar and it has been rumored that many if not all Block-Is have been upgraded to the KLJ-7(V)2.
 

Dil Pakistan

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araz

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https://hushkit.net/2018/01/25/so-h...-analysis-from-rusi-think-tanks-justin-bronk/

Created in China, perhaps based on an Russian idea, the JF-17 is solely in service with the Pakistan Air Force. Comparable in thrust and weight levels to the Swedish Gripen, the JF-17 is an intriguing design, but how effective is it? We asked Justin Bronk, from the Royal United Services Institute for his opinion.

“The JF-17 as an airframe is certainly competitive with the F-16, being slightly aerodynamically cleaner, with a lower wing loading but a less efficient engine than the F-16s latest F110-GE-129/132 engine options. In terms of pilot interface, sensor suite and weapon flexibility, the JF-17 is roughly at a par with 1990s-vintage F-16 Block 40/42 and could be close to the USAF-standard Block 50/52, although without the conformal fuel tanks, JHMCS helmet sighting system and radar upgrades which distinguish the later Block 50/52+ and AESA which equips the UAE’s Block 60/61s.”
How would you rate the JF-17 in terms of within-visual range (WVR) and beyond-visual range (BVR) fighter capabilities?

“WVR, equipped with the MAA-1 Piranha missile, the small and agile JF-17 will be a dangerous but not exactly world-beating opponent for existing fourth generation fighters. It is limited to +8/-3g and the current block 1 and 2 fighters do not yet have a helmet mounted sight system as standard (this is promised for block 3). The JF-17 also doesn’t have a greater than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio so would be at a significant disadvantage in terms of energy management against opponents such as the F-15C, Typhoon or Su-35. BVR, the KLJ-7 radar is significantly out-ranged by the F-16’s AN/APG-68 and completely outclassed by the Rafale’s AESA array, Typhoon’s CAPTOR-M and the Su-35’s monstrously powerful Irbis-E. The JF-17s small wing area and lightweight also limit its missile-carrying capacity which further disadvantages it in BVR engagements. However, it is worth remembering that the JF-17 is not really intended to take on Typhoons, Rafales, F-15s or Su-35s. It is meant to be a cheap and cheerful light multirole fighter and configured accordingly.”
I think this has been posted before. It was indeed factual when written. However the analysis may now be outdated. We need to understand that platforms are constantly being upgraded. We understand the limitation of the JFT vis a vis the twin engined beasts it has been compared to. Put in the money you need to buy 1 squadron of any of these into research into JFT and you will have a much better and comparable product. The miracle 9f the JFT is not its modernity but what has been achieved on a shoe string budget and from that perspective it is amazing. You can make a comparison between the 16 and 35 and make the 16 look ordinary but actual combat realities are different as the fight is between 2 systems. The february altercation proved JFT'S utility against its main adversariee. @fatman17 quoted that upgrade of Block 1 has not yet started so there is still a lot of work to be done.
A
 

fatman17

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I think this has been posted before. It was indeed factual when written. However the analysis may now be outdated. We need to understand that platforms are constantly being upgraded. We understand the limitation of the JFT vis a vis the twin engined beasts it has been compared to. Put in the money you need to buy 1 squadron of any of these into research into JFT and you will have a much better and comparable product. The miracle 9f the JFT is not its modernity but what has been achieved on a shoe string budget and from that perspective it is amazing. You can make a comparison between the 16 and 35 and make the 16 look ordinary but actual combat realities are different as the fight is between 2 systems. The february altercation proved JFT'S utility against its main adversariee. @fatman17 quoted that upgrade of Block 1 has not yet started so there is still a lot of work to be done.
A
Once the block 3 is inducted in large numbers ~ 3 squadrons, then the block 1 would be upgraded directly to block 3, giving PAF crews enough experience to upgrade in a seemless fashion.
 

Umair Nawaz

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Once the block 3 is inducted in large numbers ~ 3 squadrons, then the block 1 would be upgraded directly to block 3, giving PAF crews enough experience to upgrade in a seemless fashion.
cant be done, BLK3 is far larger.......

Plus yes Blk1 and 2 will be updated significantly but may not simply reach Blk3 in all the spheres of Spectrums
 

araz

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Once the block 3 is inducted in large numbers ~ 3 squadrons, then the block 1 would be upgraded directly to block 3, giving PAF crews enough experience to upgrade in a seemless fashion.
Sir jee. With changes in DSI and other changes made to accomodate the liquid cooling system for the AESA, is it going to be possible to upgrade block one to 3? Or are we looking at another AESA Solution.
A
 

Dazzler

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KLJ-7V can track a 3m2 target at 110km, 5m2 at 140km, when compared to the V9 that can track 5m2 target at 105 km.

These are confirmed figures, you decide which radar trumps which.

"Chinese KLJ-7V2 X-band multi-functional PD radar (track 10 and engage 2 simultaneously, look-up range 110km for RCS=3m2)"
 

fatman17

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Sir jee. With changes in DSI and other changes made to accomodate the liquid cooling system for the AESA, is it going to be possible to upgrade block one to 3? Or are we looking at another AESA Solution.
A
No structure changes obviously but radar and avionics upgrade
 

Chak Bamu

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This thread needs to be deleted. This was posted years ago and discussed to death. I hope there are no more posts in this thread.
 

Arsalan

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https://hushkit.net/2018/01/25/so-h...-analysis-from-rusi-think-tanks-justin-bronk/

Created in China, perhaps based on an Russian idea, the JF-17 is solely in service with the Pakistan Air Force. Comparable in thrust and weight levels to the Swedish Gripen, the JF-17 is an intriguing design, but how effective is it? We asked Justin Bronk, from the Royal United Services Institute for his opinion.

“The JF-17 as an airframe is certainly competitive with the F-16, being slightly aerodynamically cleaner, with a lower wing loading but a less efficient engine than the F-16s latest F110-GE-129/132 engine options. In terms of pilot interface, sensor suite and weapon flexibility, the JF-17 is roughly at a par with 1990s-vintage F-16 Block 40/42 and could be close to the USAF-standard Block 50/52, although without the conformal fuel tanks, JHMCS helmet sighting system and radar upgrades which distinguish the later Block 50/52+ and AESA which equips the UAE’s Block 60/61s.”
How would you rate the JF-17 in terms of within-visual range (WVR) and beyond-visual range (BVR) fighter capabilities?

“WVR, equipped with the MAA-1 Piranha missile, the small and agile JF-17 will be a dangerous but not exactly world-beating opponent for existing fourth generation fighters. It is limited to +8/-3g and the current block 1 and 2 fighters do not yet have a helmet mounted sight system as standard (this is promised for block 3). The JF-17 also doesn’t have a greater than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio so would be at a significant disadvantage in terms of energy management against opponents such as the F-15C, Typhoon or Su-35. BVR, the KLJ-7 radar is significantly out-ranged by the F-16’s AN/APG-68 and completely outclassed by the Rafale’s AESA array, Typhoon’s CAPTOR-M and the Su-35’s monstrously powerful Irbis-E. The JF-17s small wing area and lightweight also limit its missile-carrying capacity which further disadvantages it in BVR engagements. However, it is worth remembering that the JF-17 is not really intended to take on Typhoons, Rafales, F-15s or Su-35s. It is meant to be a cheap and cheerful light multirole fighter and configured accordingly.”
Excellent analysis but just one problem, its about 18 months old!

The things written hold true for Blk-I but HMD, AESA in Blk-III and Blk-I up gradation to Blk-II with addition of HMD this wont hold true. Also analysis of current KLJ-7 radar is also not accurate.

Once the block 3 is inducted in large numbers ~ 3 squadrons, then the block 1 would be upgraded directly to block 3, giving PAF crews enough experience to upgrade in a seemless fashion.

Sir jee. With changes in DSI and other changes made to accomodate the liquid cooling system for the AESA, is it going to be possible to upgrade block one to 3? Or are we looking at another AESA Solution.
A
Sir as per my information the Blk-I will be upgraded to Blk-II standard with a few additions to all these aircraft (like HMD). Blk-III will come with AESA. Once we are all done we will be operating two types actually, upgraded Blk-II+ standard and Blk-III.



Thread based on out-dated analysis that have already been shared and discussed. Closed.
 
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