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Amazing - Glacier breaking and flowing through valley

Jungibaaz

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We have more glaciers than any other country in the world, and more than any other place in the world beside the polar regions. But huge sections of them have melted and disappeared permanently, and they continue to melt at an alarming rate.

<Off-topic tangent incoming....>

The loss of our glaciers and related issues need to be discussed a little more. Glaciers are not just a part of our natural landscape, and a part of ours and our children's heritage. Far more is at stake. More than half of the water that flows through the Indus comes from snow fall and glaciers. We'll suffer flooding and the formation of unstable lakes upstream, as well as drought and flooding downstream with glacial melt.

We are also set to become one of the most, if not THE most water stressed country in the world by 2040. At the time of our independence in 1947, water availability was 5,000 cubic meters per capita, today it is hovering around 1,000 cubic meters (<1,000 is classified as water scarce). It will reach lower every year, and quiet possible reach hellish levels around only 500 cubic meters by 2040.

I firmly believe that climate catastrophe is a far greater threat to the existence and prosperity of Pakistan than any external enemy. We will suffer multiple ways... we will have a giant proportion of our land classified as uninhabitable, what's fertile land today will be even more arid and desolate, we're already very prone to wild weather and it'll be worse in the future, and our water situation may be our undoing.

Unless Pakistanis want to become Fremen from Arrakis Dune, it's in our interests to take this threat very seriously.

Here are some tidbits that should light a fire under you:

Pakistan could "run dry" by 2025 as its water shortage is reaching an alarming level. The authorities remain negligent about the crisis that's posing a serious threat to the country's stability
....
Researchers predict that Pakistan is on its way to becoming the most water-stressed country in the region by the year 2040.

Source: https://www.dw.com/en/water-crisis-why-is-pakistan-running-dry/a-44110280
Scientists have warned that swathes of South Asia may be uninhabitable due to rising temperatures by 2100.
.....
Researchers outlined their findings in the journal of Science Advances warning of "summer heat waves with levels of heat and humidity that exceed what humans can survive without protection".
About 30 per cent of the population across the region would be exposed to the scalding temperatures, up from zero per cent at present, the report added.

Source: https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/asia/as-temperatures-soar-south-asia-may-be-uninhabitable-by-2100-1.625437
Projected temperature increases in Pakistan are significantly higher than the global average. The IPCC projects a global average temperature increase by 2081–2100 of 3.7°C under the highest emissions pathway (RCP8.5) whilst the model ensemble projects an average increase of 4.9°C for Pakistan in the same scenario.

Source: https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/pakistan/climate-data-projections#:~:text=Projected%20temperature%20increases%20in%20Pakistan,Pakistan%20in%20the%20same%20scenario.
Pakistan contributes less than 1 percent of the world's greenhouse gases blamed for causing global warming, yet its 200 million people are among the world's most vulnerable victims of the growing consequences of climate change.
........
Pakistan is among 10 countries affected most by climate change, according to the 2018 Global Climate Risk Index released by the public policy group Germanwatch.

Bridging the Middle East and South Asia, Pakistan is in a geographic location where average temperatures are predicted to rise faster than elsewhere, increasing 7.2 degrees Fahrenheit (4 degrees Celsius) by the year 2100, according to a 2012 World Wildlife Fund report.

This past April 30, the temperature in the southern city of Nawabshah soared to 122.4 degrees Fahrenheit (50.2 degrees Celsius), the hottest day on earth ever recorded in April, the Pakistan Meteorological Department and World Meteorological Organization said. It was even hotter in the southern city of Turbat on May 28, 2017, when the temperature hit a sizzling 128.3 degrees Fahrenheit (53.5 Celsius).

“We are planning to move to other places due to extreme heat in our area," Nawabshah resident Azhar Rashid said in an interview. "We are surprised by every new summer here starting with high temperatures that badly affect our daily routine and jobs.”

So far this year, more than 60 people have died from the heat in Karachi, the country's largest city. Many more die of heat-related illnesses across the country, but exact numbers of deaths are not kept.

In June 2015, more than 1,200 people died from the heat nationwide and 65,000 were treated for heat illnesses, the Provincial Disaster Management Authority for the Karachi region reported.

Depleting water supplies are another problem in a country where 60 percent of the land receives less than 10 inches of rain per year. Rivers are mainly fed by the Hindu Kush-Karakoram Himalayan glaciers, which are melting rapidly due to global warming.

At the same time, “the rise in the use of vehicles causes heat and more ozone-destroying gases that transform the environment into a furnace,” he said.

Pakistan, which has the world's sixth-largest population, is projected to add nearly 100 million people by 2050, causing great strains on its resources. Plus, ambitious plans for economic development could mean the country increases carbon emissions by 300 percent over the next 15 years, as more cars clog roads and demand for electricity expands, according to projections.

The country's government has pledged to reduce emissions by 2030, as required by nations that signed the Paris Climate Accord, but it has not said how it will accomplish that given its development hopes.

Feeding the growing population will be a challenge as the melting of glaciers and higher water evaporation rates caused by hotter temperatures will mean less irrigated water and smaller harvests of staples such as wheat and rice.
.............................
During the last five years, only the Pakistan Movement for Justice party, favored to score gains in the election, focused on environmental issues in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province by launching a program to plant a billion trees to reduce heat across the province.

“We need to teach new generations about the environment and encourage researchers to conduct empirical studies on climate change issues," Amjad said. "Their findings will help to streamline policies.”

A 2017 report by the Asian Development Bank concludes that northern parts of the country will suffer the biggest increases in temperatures and that water per capita will decrease at an alarming rate in coming years.

The report also warned that extreme climate change events, such as heavier rains that cause flooding, will damage the country's gas, oil, and power infrastructure. Warmer temperatures also may affect the efficiency of nuclear plants, it said.

“There is a need to develop drought- and heat-tolerant crops that show optimum performance even with changes in climate patterns,” the report said. It also called for construction of water storage systems, investment in renewable energy, "improved weather forecasting and warning systems, retrofitting of critical energy infrastructure, and construction of dikes or sea walls.”

Source: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/07/24/pakistan-one-worlds-leading-victims-global-warming/809509002/
"The sky is falling"
Source: Chicken Little
Not all of these issues are out of our control. For the ones that can be mitigated by us, such as water scarcity, we have to start making efforts immediately. Every litre of water should be precious, water intensive agriculture needs to be regulated and updated, water storage methods and the rapid depletion of ground water should be looked into.

As for the things that are not in our control, such as global warming... It's not just our right to make a hue and cry about climate change, it's our responsibility. Rich countries who spent the last century burning fossil fuels will not suffer uninhabitable environments and water scarcity. Canadians won't suffer shortage of water, Norwegians sitting in Oslo won't die of heat stroke, we might however when temperatures in our cities reach 50 Celsius.

It's our responsibility to raise this issue at every forum, and make the rest of the world pay attention and pay up for the mess they are causing.

Apologies OP for the tangential rant, it has to be said.
 

peagle

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We have more glaciers than any other country in the world, and more than any other place in the world beside the polar regions. But huge sections of them have melted and disappeared permanently, and they continue to melt at an alarming rate.

<Off-topic tangent incoming....>

The loss of our glaciers and related issues need to be discussed a little more. Glaciers are not just a part of our natural landscape, and a part of ours and our children's heritage. Far more is at stake. More than half of the water that flows through the Indus comes from snow fall and glaciers. We'll suffer flooding and the formation of unstable lakes upstream, as well as drought and flooding downstream with glacial melt.

We are also set to become one of the most, if not THE most water stressed country in the world by 2040. At the time of our independence in 1947, water availability was 5,000 cubic meters per capita, today it is hovering around 1,000 cubic meters (<1,000 is classified as water scarce). It will reach lower every year, and quiet possible reach hellish levels around only 500 cubic meters by 2040.

I firmly believe that climate catastrophe is a far greater threat to the existence and prosperity of Pakistan than any external enemy. We will suffer multiple ways... we will have a giant proportion of our land classified as uninhabitable, what's fertile land today will be even more arid and desolate, we're already very prone to wild weather and it'll be worse in the future, and our water situation may be our undoing.

Unless Pakistanis want to become Fremen from Arrakis Dune, it's in our interests to take this threat very seriously.

Here are some tidbits that should light a fire under you:







Not all of these issues are out of our control. For the ones that can be mitigated by us, such as water scarcity, we have to start making efforts immediately. Every litre of water should be precious, water intensive agriculture needs to be regulated and updated, water storage methods and the rapid depletion of ground water should be looked into.

As for the things that are not in our control, such as global warming... It's not just our right to make a hue and cry about climate change, it's our responsibility. Rich countries who spent the last century burning fossil fuels will not suffer uninhabitable environments and water scarcity. Canadians won't suffer shortage of water, Norwegians sitting in Oslo won't die of heat stroke, we might however when temperatures in our cities reach 50 Celsius.

It's our responsibility to raise this issue at every forum, and make the rest of the world pay attention and pay up for the mess they are causing.

Apologies OP for the tangential rant, it has to be said.
No need to apologize, so not accepted.
Anyway it wouldn't feel like a Pakistani thread unless someone goes off into tangents lol

If there's one thing we love is to discuss everything under the sun, when there is only one topic :rofl: , now I'm going into tangents lol.

Anyway, I feel your concerns, but honestly, personally, I am not worried. All I have ever heard in my life is doom and gloom about Pakistan, without fair analysis. Everything you have said is true in its simplest form because those are the stories repeated most often, and, those stories present a certain viewpoint and certain logic.

The fact remains that, the biggest threat we face is from inefficiencies, use of proper technics, and lack of suitable infrastructure with regards to water use. It is reported that over 90% of water use in Pakistan is in the agriculture sector. Generally, large efficiencies are very easy to achieve in almost any sector, at least on the first attempt, further efficiencies become harder.

If we apply a 20% efficiency to water use in agriculture, that provides us with an extra 200% of the amount of water avalable for domestic and industrial use. Once you improve our entire environment and take the efficiency mindset in all sectors it has unseen benefits. Using less water in agriculture will not necessarily result in lower production, but likely improve production due to mindful techniques and new technologies being introduced, combined with improved education for the farmers.

Before I get carried away, I'll cut short here myself lol
Not to ignore the points you highlighted, which have value and are important, I won't say it's doomsdays just yet, because clear solutions are available, it is just a case of correct mindset and appropriate measures being taken.
 

Turingsage

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It's our responsibility to raise this issue at every forum, and make the rest of the world pay attention and pay up for the mess they are causing.
An excellent write up Jungibaaz. India and Bangladesh too are in the same boat called Earth, though perhaps to a slightly lesser extent. As you say not enough is talked about this emerging catastrophe in South Asia and poses a far more real threat than wars.
 

krash

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Not sure if this video should be under the tourism section,
but, it is amazing and shows the variety of experiences and landscapes in Pakistan.

Simply Awesome.

That's just perennial snow though, not glacial ice. Mostly Neve and maybe some Firn. Commonly mistaken for a 'glacier'.
 

peagle

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That's just perennial snow though, not glacial ice. Mostly Neve and maybe some Firn. Commonly mistaken for a 'glacier'.
lol Congratulations on being the first person in finding the needle in the haystack.
But Glacier sounds so awesome, don't spoil the fun :rofl:
 

peagle

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Mountain nerd here. I take snow seriously :p

I hope you won't mind me nibbling your brain a little, feel free to send a direct message if you don't feel like sharing info openly. I have always wanted to do a trek to K2 basecamp, but the difference between the foreigner price and the local price has put me off because it really annoyed me so much lol, so never gave it a serious thought. Would you know if it is possible for me to pay the local price? Thanks
 

krash

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I hope you won't mind me nibbling your brain a little, feel free to send a direct message if you don't feel like sharing info openly. I have always wanted to do a trek to K2 basecamp, but the difference between the foreigner price and the local price has put me off because it really annoyed me so much lol, so never gave it a serious thought. Would you know if it is possible for me to pay the local price? Thanks
By all means. I'm PDF's resident 'virtual guide to Northern Pakistan'.

If you don't have a Pakistani ID, then I'd advise against trying to side step the system. It has more to do with governmental regulations due to the sensitivity of the area than anything about the tour guide operators.

All that said, I would sincerely advise that you pay them what they ask. I assure you, they are not ripping you off. You'll realize that too once you get there. Also, if you hire a Pakistani tour/guide company, as opposed to a foreign one, you'd be saving somewhere from $1000-$3000 anyway. You can further save around $500 by starting and ending the tour services in Skardu. Pretty easy to make it to Skardu and back by yourself.

Call Apricot Tours, Hunza Guides, and Adventure Tours Pakistan. Tell them how you want it done along with your budget and they will try to work something out for you.
 

peagle

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By all means. I'm PDF's resident 'virtual guide to Northern Pakistan'.

If you don't have a Pakistani ID, then I'd advise against trying to side step the system. It has more to do with governmental regulations due to the sensitivity of the area than anything about the tour guide operators.

All that said, I would sincerely advise that you pay them what they ask. I assure you, they are not ripping you off. You'll realize that too once you get there. Also, if you hire a Pakistani tour/guide company, as opposed to a foreign one, you'd be saving somewhere from $1000-$3000 anyway. You can further save around $500 by starting and ending the tour services in Skardu. Pretty easy to make it to Skardu and back by yourself.

Call Apricot Tours, Hunza Guides, and Adventure Tours Pakistan. Tell them how you want it done along with your budget and they will try to work something out for you.
Thank you for your reply.
I have done some travelling in my younger days, managed to visit about 19 countries I think, life got in the way in between. I did do some research some time ago and checked the website of Apricot Tours I think, and a couple of others. The last time I checked, I think the going rate for foreigners was nearly £3000, and for locals was less then a third, little difference I wouldn't have minded paying, but what's the point of having Pakistani blood if I have to pay many times over, felt like rubbing salt in my blood, so to speak lol

I was actually born in Pakistan but was took out in the early years by dear daddy, similar to many other stories. I can show them my Pakistani passport when I still looked innocent and cute :p: but I do not think that will pass anymore lol. But, I do have a nadra card at hand, which has been renewed regularly in all its formats most of my adult life. I had decided, if the call of the wild becomes too strong then I will pay the foreigner rate, otherwise spend the money on things more along with my personal tastes.

I don't know where the K2 basecamp hunger came from, other than an itch that wouldn't go away.
The previous message from you, had me thinking since I read it, so thought I'll ask.
 

krash

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Thank you for your reply.
I have done some travelling in my younger days, managed to visit about 19 countries I think, life got in the way in between. I did do some research some time ago and checked the website of Apricot Tours I think, and a couple of others. The last time I checked, I think the going rate for foreigners was nearly £3000, and for locals was less then a third, little difference I wouldn't have minded paying,
TBH, that difference doesn't seem right. Below are the prices their website gives. Since they are in Dollars and Euros, I'm going to guess they are for foreigners. In fact, I couldn't find any separate pricing list for foreigners/locals.


Is it possible you were mistakenly comparing different packages? This British operator, who btw is one of the cheapest out there, charges £2675 for a land only trek, i.e. Starting and ending in Islamabad and by road to and from Skardu. Apricot tours charges US$1,790 = £1,293 from Islamabad with a round flight to and from Skardu included. That's less than half for more. Anyway, I've reached out to them. Let's see what they say.


Edit:

Found this on their site.

"All international travelers can pay in US Dollars (USD) or equivalent in Euros (EUR) or Pound Sterling (GBP). Pakistani travelers are charged the equivalent in Pakistani Rupees (PKR)."


but what's the point of having Pakistani blood if I have to pay many times over, felt like rubbing salt in my blood, so to speak lol

I was actually born in Pakistan but was took out in the early years by dear daddy, similar to many other stories. I can show them my Pakistani passport when I still looked innocent and cute :p: but I do not think that will pass anymore lol. But, I do have a nadra card at hand, which has been renewed regularly in all its formats most of my adult life. I had decided, if the call of the wild becomes too strong then I will pay the foreigner rate, otherwise spend the money on things more along with my personal tastes.
You are a Pakistani.........you won't be paying any mark ups, if there are any. You even have a Pakistani ID. What made you think that you would?

I don't know where the K2 basecamp hunger came from, other than an itch that wouldn't go away.
The previous message from you, had me thinking since I read it, so thought I'll ask.
That single trek has at least a dozen different 'once in a lifetime' treks all rolled into one. You get to 1) Visit K2's base camp, 2) Visit Broad Peak, 3) Visit Gasherbrum I, 4) Visit Gasherbrum II, 5) Visit Gasherbrum IV, 6) Visit Masherbrum, 7) Visit The Trango Towers, 8) Trek the length of Baltoro, the worlds longest and largest glacier outside the poles, 9) Camp at Concordia, 10) See the Goodwin Austin Glacier, 11) Climb the Gondogoro La, 12) See a hefty number of other 6000-7999 meter peaks.
 
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peagle

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TBH, that difference doesn't seem right. Below are the prices their website gives. Since they are in Dollars and Euros, I'm going to guess they are for foreigners. In fact, I couldn't find any separate pricing list for foreigners/locals.

https://www.apricottours.pk/tours/k2-base-camp-trek/
Is it possible you were mistakenly comparing different packages? This British operator, who btw is one of the cheapest out there, charges £2675 for a land only trek, i.e. Starting and ending in Islamabad and by road to and from Skardu. Apricot tours charges US$1,790 = £1,293 from Islamabad with a round flight to and from Skardu included. That's less than half for more. Anyway, I've reached out to them. Let's see what they say.

Edit:

Found this on their site.

"All international travelers can pay in US Dollars (USD) or equivalent in Euros (EUR) or Pound Sterling (GBP). Pakistani travelers are charged the equivalent in Pakistani Rupees (PKR)."
https://www.apricottours.pk/tours/k2-base-camp-trek/
Thanks a lot, really appreciated.
I think you might be right, I probably looked into different packages to suit my taste, and the British pound was a lot weaker, it's regained its value since.
Now I have to plan for the right timing to visit in secret to avoid the relatives and all the dinner invites lol, otherwise I'll be fattened up and left with only enough time to say salam and bye to the guides, and no K2 in sight lol

You are a Pakistani.........you won't be paying any mark ups, if there are any. You even have a Pakistani ID. What made you think that you would?
I remember reading that if you have a foreign passport, that classifies you as a foreigner, I think I got annoyed and left it at that because I didn't feel like lying. But, I'm starting to think I may have made a few mistakes in my research or searched so much I got confused.

That single trek has at least a dozen different 'once in a lifetime' treks all rolled into one. You get to 1) Visit K2's base camp, 2) Visit Broad Peak, 3) Visit Gasherbrum I, 4) Visit Gasherbrum II, 5) Visit Gasherbrum IV, 6) Visit Masherbrum, 7) Visit The Trango Towers, 8) Trek the length of Baltoro, the worlds longest and largest glacier outside the poles, 9) Camp at Concordia, 10) See the Goodwin Austin Glacier, 11) Climb the Gondogoro La, 12) See a hefty number of other 6000-7999 meter peaks.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome, I've seen few videos, there's a whole series by a family who visited last year I think, or the year before. wherearethejones or something, and a few Pakistani bloggers also did similar videos. The place certainly looks awesome.
 

krash

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I remember reading that if you have a foreign passport, that classifies you as a foreigner, I think I got annoyed and left it at that because I didn't feel like lying. But, I'm starting to think I may have made a few mistakes in my research or searched so much I got confused.
No, no. If you are a Pakistani, who is entitled to a Pakistani ID card, no one can consider you anything but.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome, I've seen few videos, there's a whole series by a family who visited last year I think, or the year before. wherearethejones or something, and a few Pakistani bloggers also did similar videos. The place certainly looks awesome.
Videos and pictures just can't do any justice to these places, trust me. You have to experience it. Just the fear and awe induced from looking at an +8000 meter peak is something else. The scale is unlike anything one can imagine.
 
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peagle

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No, no. If you are a Pakistani, who is entitled to a Pakistani ID card, no one can consider you anything but.



Videos and pictures just can't do any justice to these places, trust me. You have to experience it. Just the fear and awe induced from looking at an +8000 meter peak is something else. The scale is unlike anything one can imagine.
Well, hopefully, if I do, and it's looking more possible now than ever, probably next year, I will certainly say a thank you to you in my prayers, I certainly am not religious but do pray occasionally. It's only due to your post that my interest is awakening again :-)

Stay blessed.
 

krash

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Well, hopefully, if I do, and it's looking more possible now than ever, probably next year, I will certainly say a thank you to you in my prayers, I certainly am not religious but do pray occasionally. It's only due to your post that my interest is awakening again :-)

Stay blessed.
Thank you and you're very welcome. If I am in Pakistan at the time, I might even be able to make your expedition a bit easier. Regardless, you'll be well taken care of.
 

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