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Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

SgtGungHo

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is this Korean transmission really that bad?
Depends on your definition of "bad". In my book, if a transmission fails to satisfy their army's standards (the Korean transmission failed at about 7,000km when it was required to last about 10,000km in a trial) and the Korean government actively talks about lowering requirements, that's already a red flag.

And remember, the Turkish government alledgedly said that they would take whatever the Korean government offers IF the Korean government could guarantee durability of the Korean transmission up to the point where it failed (about 7000km) and the Korean government even reportedly refused to do that.

That's sounds pretty "bad" to me, but hey Turkey needs a powerpack to roll out their new MBT for both financial (each month of delay costs a lot of money to all involved companies) and political reasons (propaganda and all).

I mean this is why Turkey has been using American & German powerpacks for their tactical armoured vehicles and other self-propelled military vehicles - they are proven & reliable and they are the best in the industry even though the Turkish government keeps making all the fuss about "indigenous" engines & transmissions for obvious political reasons.
 

Yatağanlı

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Depends on your definition of "bad". In my book, if a transmission fails to satisfy their army's standards (the Korean transmission failed at about 7,000km when it was required to last about 10,000km in a trial) and the Korean government actively talks about lowering requirements, that's already a red flag.

And remember, the Turkish government alledgedly said that they would take whatever the Korean government offers IF the Korean government could guarantee durability of the Korean transmission up to the point where it failed (about 7000km) and the Korean government even reportedly refused to do that.

That's sounds pretty "bad" to me, but hey Turkey needs a powerpack to roll out their new MBT for both financial (each month of delay costs a lot of money to all involved companies) and political reasons (propaganda and all).

I mean this is why Turkey has been using American & German powerpacks for their tactical armoured vehicles and other self-propelled military vehicles - they are proven & reliable and they are the best in the industry even though the Turkish government keeps making all the fuss about "indigenous" engines & transmissions for obvious political reasons.
Makes sense, but if there is a chance that transmissions can be replaced or updated later, we could get these first. The main reason Turkish vehicles do not use Turkish engines yet, is because they've not entered mass production. There are various 600hp and 1000hp projects that are expected to be delivered from 2021 onwards.
 

SgtGungHo

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Makes sense, but if there is a chance that transmissions can be replaced or updated later, we could get these first.
Replacing an existing transmission is a very difficult job. You could apply a new transmission mostly only for a new batch of vehicles after going through all the field tests and the quality control yet again, which costs time, money and talents. At least the first batch of Altay MBT will be stuck with the Korean powerpack if Turkey actually tries to start a serial production of Altay MBT with the Korean engine & transmission.

The main reason Turkish vehicles do not use Turkish engines yet, is because they've not entered mass production. There are various 600hp and 1000hp projects that are expected to be delivered from 2021 onwards.
Turkey doesn't have a pair of reliable & functional military-grade engine & trainsmission. Don't make those bogus projects fool you. They probably only exist in labs or CAD and engineers also probably know that those powerpacks are not reliable & practical enough to replace existing proven American powerpacks. Had they developed 'good enough' powerpacks & scheduled to be delivered in 2021, the Turkish army would have already started field tests with all of their existing amoured vehicles with Turkish powerpacks.

The fact that Turkey suggested Kaplan MT / Harimau with a 700hp American engine with an American transmission and that Turkey is evidently scraping the bottom of the barrel for Altay's powerpack should tell you Turkey is nowhere near developing a reliable & practical indigenous powerpack for mass-production nor quality of their powerpacks (if they were any) are anywhere good as American & German.
 

Yatağanlı

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Replacing an existing transmission is a very difficult job. You could apply a new transmission mostly only for a new batch of vehicles after going through all the field tests and the quality control yet again, which costs time, money and talents. At least the first batch of Altay MBT will be stuck with the Korean powerpack if Turkey actually tries to start a serial production of Altay MBT with the Korean engine & transmission.

Turkey doesn't have a pair of reliable & functional military-grade engine & trainsmission. Don't make those bogus projects fool you. They probably only exist in labs or CAD and engineers also probably know that those powerpacks are not reliable & practical enough to replace existing proven American powerpacks. Had they developed 'good enough' powerpacks & scheduled to be delivered in 2021, the Turkish army would have already started field tests with all of their existing amoured vehicles with Turkish powerpacks.

The fact that Turkey suggested Kaplan MT / Harimau with a 700hp American engine with an American transmission and that Turkey is evidently scraping the bottom of the barrel for Altay's powerpack should tell you Turkey is nowhere near developing a reliable & practical indigenous powerpack for mass-production nor quality of their powerpacks (if they were any) are anywhere good as American & German.
You are claiming the quality sucks for a project that was signed way before there was even a Turkish engine prototype. How can you judge the quality of a product before its existence? Most engine projects for armoured vehicles were only signed in 2018/2019. For smaller armoured vehicles in the 10-30 tons range, progress is going well. Your are correct that the 1500hp tank engine project is nowhere near completion, and may take 10 more years. But judging the whole Turkish engine industry as bogus is plain wrong.

Multiple projects are ongoing and progressing succesfully, including engines for cruise missiles, drones, attack helicopters and also armoured vehicles. Multiple companies are developing engines for armoured vehicles, including Tumosan and BMC. Integration tests for various 600hp engines are expected to be conducted at the end of this year.
 

dr.knowhow

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Depends on your definition of "bad". In my book, if a transmission fails to satisfy their army's standards (the Korean transmission failed at about 7,000km when it was required to last about 10,000km in a trial) and the Korean government actively talks about lowering requirements, that's already a red flag.

And remember, the Turkish government alledgedly said that they would take whatever the Korean government offers IF the Korean government could guarantee durability of the Korean transmission up to the point where it failed (about 7000km) and the Korean government even reportedly refused to do that.

That's sounds pretty "bad" to me, but hey Turkey needs a powerpack to roll out their new MBT for both financial (each month of delay costs a lot of money to all involved companies) and political reasons (propaganda and all).

I mean this is why Turkey has been using American & German powerpacks for their tactical armoured vehicles and other self-propelled military vehicles - they are proven & reliable and they are the best in the industry even though the Turkish government keeps making all the fuss about "indigenous" engines & transmissions for obvious political reasons.
To add, the ROC was 8,300 km without major failure or so, and that figure is actually really demanding, harsher than the requirements for the Allison transmission put into Abrams. I would have actually been able to make some excuses if the transmission only failed after that 7,000 km figure because that is actually hella decent even compared to Renk or Allison. But unfortunately, just like how you've explained, S&T's transmission was not only unable to match that requirements but furthermore was plagued with various kinds of QC and basic mechanical issues that aren't expected from a decent transmission made by experienced manufacturers.

The biggest problem with the powerpack development program is that the Army commissioned those manufacturers who lack R&D expertise to develop a 1500 HP powerpack just because they wrote the lowest bids. Yes, Doosan and S&T had some experience with diesel engines and transmissions but Hyundai Heavy Industries had and has way more experience for the job and they are currently the largest manufacturer of mid-sized diesel engines for ships. We even had STX back then who've manufactured MTU engines under license for K1 and K9. Surely if we have opted for any of these two for the development of the powerpack all these mess could have been avoided. Unfortunately the program management and risk assessment ability of ROKA and the Korean defence industry was still quite sub-standard back then in 2000s. Now that things have changed massively in the last decade or so, hopefully same woes could be avoided in the future, especially when ROKA is planning to develop a 1000 HP level powerpack for the K9.

Same question could be asked for Turkey. Like I've said Doosan and S&T aren't companies without any diesel engine and transmission development and manufacturing experiences. Even then they've failed massively and it is quite clear you at least need HHI level of expertise if you are going to make a state of the art military powerpack, good enough for a modern tank. Does Turkey have any manufacturer that qualifies within these standards? It would be hard to argue against that they will face the same challenges Doosan and S&T faced if they don't.
 
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hyperman

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even though the Turkish government keeps making all the fuss about "indigenous" engines & transmissions for obvious political reasons.
its not a fuss, its a matter of vulnerability, they could decide tomorrow to ban all imports of tech to turkey, for whatever reason, Israeli or greek or Armenian lobby in the US, or Greece and France pushing germany to ban exports, wtf is turkey going to use as powerplants, attach a horse to pull the IFVs and MBTs? As long as you are dependent on foreign powers for the preservation of your security and interests, they defacto have control over your actions.
 

dr.knowhow

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Several sources mentioning that the schedules have been announced by SSB to begin the mass production of Altay tanks next year around 2nd ~ 3rd quarter.





Altay tankı seri üretim yolunda

Demir, Altay tankında seri üretimin başlamasına yönelik, "Alternatif motoru bulup, getirip, sisteme girmesiyle arada büyük bir boşluk bırakmamakla ilgili zamansal yol haritamız var. Hattı kurup üretecek hale getirdikten sonra senkronize bir yol haritası düşünülüyor. Seri üretim hattının kurulması ve tesisle ilgili çalışmalar başladı. Önümüzdeki senenin ortalarına doğru hattın faaliyete geçmesi ve üretimin başlamasını bekliyoruz." ifadelerini kullandı.

ROKETSAN’ın stratejik ürünleri üretttiğini belirten Demir, "ROKETSAN, dünyada az sayıda rekabet edecek şirketin olduğu bir konuma geldi. 3-5 sene sonra daha iyi durumda olacağını göreceğiz. Harekat alanındaki performanslarının görülmesiyle de ürünlerine talepler artacak. ROKETSAN her ürünü her ülkeye satabilir mi konusunda da ülkemizin politika öncelikleri söz konusu olacak.” değerlendirmesinde bulundu.

Şirketin uzaya yönelik çalışmalarından da bahseden Demir, "Buradaki ilk hedefimiz alçak yörüngeye küçük uyduları yerleştirmek. Bununla beraber yerli ve milli uydularımızın üretilmesi ve fırlatılmasına yönelik çalışmalar devam edecek. Bu konuda roket motorları teknolojilerinde, çeşitli kabiliyetlere sahip oluyoruz. Bu anlamda biraz daha süreye ihtiyacımız var." diye konuştu.

Guess the talks with the Korean government went on? The 3rd batch of serial production of K-2 is to take place next year. This is the batch in which it will be decided if K-2 will use Doosan engine + S&T transmission or Doosan engine + Renk transmission in the future. The military standards and testing requirements have been updated last July for more clarity and the ROC remains the same for the transmission evaluation. There have been some conflict between DAPA and S&T regarding the testing requirements but I have not been hearing much about it lately so I guess S&T have settled with what they are demanded. Currently the final evaluation of the S&T transmission should be taking place. Maybe Turkey is still willing to import these transmission regardless of the result so they could at least start with something.

On the other hand we also have other potential power pack suppliers like China and Russia. China has WR703/150HB engine which has been used in Type 99 and also has FW150 if they are not willing to sell the full 1500 HP engine. Russia on the other hand has 12N360, though the T-14 itself hasn't even entered mass production unlike the Type 99 so who knows.

Anyways big if true but then again we have already seen how things have gone by in the past. Until mid-next year nothing is certain and the mass production of the Altay could be stalled yet again. If any of those 3 potential power pack supplier can confirm then we would be able to talk about a done deal.
 

dr.knowhow

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Seems to be that the transmission evaluation that was ongoing have failed. Article mentions that S&T and DAPA were having some sort of a negotiation concerning the testing and evaluation process which fell out that ultimately led to ROKA and DAPA opting for Renk transmissions for the 3rd Batch. I would still wait for the follow up articles but the article I've posted seems very credible due to its sources. It mentions that they will still give S&T chance to improve their transmission for the fourth batch of K-2 which would probably take place in 2~3 years so we'll get to see how things turn out.

Now it's either Korea's out of the equation regarding Altay's planned mass production next year and the powerpack or like I've said in the previous post, Turkey is okay with such transmission as they would like to urgently start the mass production of Altay no matter what at this point. Time will tell.
 

Turkreal

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So our only problem is the TRANSMISSION? I Hope the government would give us more updates. I can't find anything on the internet. We need to get our best machinists to make a nice triple differential transmission just as a project to get something working.

 

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Could South Korea Power Group Become the Sought-after Power Pack Solution for ALTAY AMT Mass Production Project?
A few days ago Defense News in an article published by Burak Ege Bekdil signature in the Journal of Turkey's German origin Europowerpack Power Group and French origin armor solutions can not come to a kind of series production stage due Kind experienced problems with the supply of Altay Main Battle Tank (AMT) Programın` in talks with South Korea The claim that it started was included. Accordingly, both the procurement (SSB) authority, military authorities and BMC Company officials, the Main Contractor of ALTAY AMT Mass Production Phase, have been holding talks with the South Korean tank engine manufacturer Doosan Infracore Corporation and transmission manufacturer S&T Dynamics companies for a while through the South Korean Hyundai Rotem. Turkish Presidency Defense Industry President Prof. Dr. İsmail DEMİR,
November 25, 2020

While the second package produced for the South Korean Land Forces is used in 106 K2 Black Panther AMTs, the first package is the EST15K Automatic Transmission with a hydraulic torque converter from S&T Dynamics. and the second package could not be used due to technical problems in the 106 K2 AMT and the need was met through the German Color Company's HSWL 495TM Automatic Transmission. The domestic design and production EST15K Automatic Transmission was aimed to be used with the DV27K Diesel Engine in the third package, which will include 54 K2 AMTs, which are expected to be ordered this year, after the completion of the development / improvement and testing process.

The ALTAY AMT Mass Production Contract worth Euro 3.5 billion was signed on November 9, 2018 and Defense Industry President Prof. Dr. İsmail DEMİR said, “The first ALTAY Tank will be delivered to KKK after 18 months. Best wishes,He said. However, although more than 2 years passed since the signing of the contract, the contract could not enter into force for a long time and To could not be initiated due to the problems experienced in the supply of critical subsystems. The project included the production and delivery of a total of 251 tanks in three different configurations, 40 of which are T1, 210 T2 and 1 unmanned tower T3 prototype. It was planned to use a locally designed and produced power group in some of the ALTAY AMTs to be manufactured under the Mass Production Phase, and a contract was signed with SSB on 13 June 2018 for the Power Group. V12 diesel engine with at least 4.600Nm torque and 1.500 hp capacity to be developed by BMC Power Company,

Meanwhile, according to a claim made in May 2019, BMC is working to develop a new 1.600 hp engine based on the 25.8 liter 1,270 hp (950 kW) Fiat / Iveco MTCA V12 Diesel Engine used in Ariete AMT with the support of Fiat. was running. According to the claim, Fiat Company would also support the studies and two separate engines would emerge using the data obtained. While the Italians were designing a supercharged engine with a capacity of 1,500 hp, the engine to be used by BMC in ALTAY AMT would be turbocharged. However, it seems that Iveco product 1, instead of the 1.500 hp version of the current Fiat-Iveco MTCA V12 Engine under the Half-Life Modernization (MLU) Project of C1 Ariete AMTs in the inventory of the Italian Land Forces. This option was heavily hit with the selection of the 600hp 12-cylinder (V12) VECTOR-12 Engine. The VECTOR-12 will be shaped on the VECTOR-8 Diesel Engine that powers the B2 Centauro II 8x8 MGS wheeled Armored Combat Vehicles in service, and the Color product HSWL 295TM Automatic Transmission (A part of the EuroPowerpack Power Group used in ALTAY AMT, which Germany has not given its export license for two years, is also the same. will be used in conjunction with). The testing process was planned to begin in 2021 with the 3 C1 Ariete AMT prototypes to be modernized under the Euro35 million contract. It will be shaped on the VECTOR-8 Diesel Engine that strengthens the B2 Centauro II 8x8 MGS wheeled Armored Combat Vehicles in service and will be shaped with the Color product HSWL 295TM Automatic Transmission (also part of the EuroPowerpack Power Group, which is used in ALTAY AMT, which Germany has not given its export license for two years) will be used. The testing process was planned to begin in 2021 with the 3 C1 Ariete AMT prototypes to be modernized under the Euro35 million contract. It will be shaped on the VECTOR-8 Diesel Engine that strengthens the B2 Centauro II 8x8 MGS wheeled Armored Combat Vehicles in service and will be shaped with the Color product HSWL 295TM Automatic Transmission (also part of the EuroPowerpack Power Group, which is used in ALTAY AMT, which Germany has not given its export license for two years) will be used. The testing process was planned to begin in 2021 with the 3 C1 Ariete AMT prototypes to be modernized under the Euro35 million contract.

On 7 May 2020, SSB President Prof. DEMİR pointed out that the work carried out with the foreign partner for the engine to be used in ALTAY AMT is progressing positively and underlined that there are also B and C plans for a possible negative situation. President DEMİR spoke as follows: “Our work with a country continues in ALTAY. We can say that the signatures were signed. We also have B or even C plan for the engine. Our work continues here. But on the other hand, our work continues, whether electric or hybrid. SSB IRON, In his statement to M5 Magazine on June 22, 2020, it is said that the process for the production of 6 Altay tanks has started with some engines supplied previously. Is there any truth to this? " to the question: “We can not say 6 per unit because there are spare engines. They have a certain number of tests. There is no such thing as pop up the spares in the tank. It would be 5, it would be 4. But such work has begun. Well, one might ask why it wasn't started yesterday You will start by establishing a production facility, we will proceed according to the calendar so that there is no such thing as I produced something, waited 3 years, 5 years., ”Gave the answer. President IRON, on Defense Turkey Magazine iii interview at his September 25 europowerpack export license for the sale to Turkey of the Power Group as to whether any progress and said the following in response to a question on will begin when the project schedule: "Maybe the public in an unfair manner dillendirilen cause There is a reaction that the production did not start. Now, a power pack was selected while the prototype was being produced, and we say to the company that you will produce on this prototype. If the source country has given up the power group on which the prototype was developed, it is not fair to blame the party that will make mass production here. They are also looking for solutions with our support. Can we continue with another country besides our own engine development project? they worked on it in a very wide way. Even there, a multi-actor situation emerged in which not only the power group, but also a certain part of the power group. In other words, a product may not only come from a place, even a tiny piece, if it comes from another country, you need to be clear about it.We have reached a certain stage regarding the engine from another country, and our studies on the domestic engine continue. In the first stage, the production of the tank can start with a limited number of engines created at the prototype stage, but if you ask why it did not start, it does not make sense to produce 3-4 tanks and wait five years or two years. If we make a chain back to back and do this, we'll start… ”DEMİR In response to a question regarding the integration and qualification process of the power group option other than the German EuroPowerpack to ALTAY AMT:“ If there is a blockage at some point, you cannot sit and wait. Regarding the process, you are meeting with someone, you pass a stage, but you can get stuck in a component. We are trying to take the process in the best possible way with all our strength. And it's like we've come to the end. Sometimes a very small issue can stretch beyond your expectations. Practically, it has actually come to an end, but of course there is a qualification process. You also need to qualify the power pack for your own product. If there is a blockage related to this product without the initiative of the contractor, this is a force majeure. Then what will you do? It is not a product that you can take from the ready shelf and put it on the platform. It was not an A product. It is not an issue that you would say I use product B. First of all, it is a process to understand the power group to be supplied with the country with that company, and then the installation of that system on our own product and the qualification of the product is another step that talking with the country, maturing the terms of the agreement, there are many issues ... ”he said.

South Korean Experience in AMT Power Group: K2 AMT Power Group

South having a much more advanced automotive industry from Turkey, Korea, 2005-2014 between indigenous K2 Black Panther Power Group for the development work carried out by AMT. In this context, Doosan Infracore, which developed the first power group for the development of a 12-cylinder (V12) diesel engine in the 1980s, and S&T Dynamics Company for the development of the automatic transmission system.

South Korea started the XK2 AMT Development Program in 1995 and the first XK2 prototype was exhibited in 2007 and was made ready for production under the name K2 in 2008 after 13 years. After extensive testing, the US $ 820 Million contract, covering the first batch of 100 K2 Black Panther AMTs, was signed in December 2014 (production started in November) and deliveries were completed in November 2016. The first batch of 100 K2 AMT was equipped with the power pack consisting of the German MTU diesel engine and the Renk HSWL 295TM Transmission since the domestic power pack was not ready at that time. After lengthy (technical problems experienced in the domestic design power pack development process led to a delay of more than two years in the K2 Project schedule) and costly work, South Korea, Doosan Infracore product 1.

According to the information shared in the S&T Dynamics Military Products Catalog, EST15K completed the Operational Tests in coordination with the South Korean Land Forces on May 2, 2013, and in the Development Tests conducted in coordination with the South Korean Defense Development Agency, you want 82 excluding the Endurance Test of 9,600km. It has met all. According to the firm's claim, the combat weight K2 AMT, equipped with the EST15K Transmission, traveled 8,198 km during the Endurance Test and completed 85.4% of the planned Endurance Test of 9,600 km. But,

After the completion of the development / improvement and qualification testing process of the domestic design and production EST15K Transmission, it was aimed to be used with the DV27K Diesel Engine in the third package, which will include 54 K2 AMTs expected to be ordered this year. According to the reports published in the South Korean local press in July and August 2020, the DAPA has revised the requirements for the Endurance Tests and announced new standards. According to some Korean authors, this revision paved the way for the use of the domestic power group in the K2 Black Panther AMT. In a statement on the subject, DAPA AMT and Head of Armored Vehicles Department Kim Ki-TAEK stated that the revision will be "a starting point for the full localization of the power group of the K2 Tank". In a statement made on 16 July 2020, DAPA said, “This year, "We will conduct a new qualification test with the candidate domestic power group in accordance with the revised requirements and decide before the end of this year whether the domestic transmission system will be used in third-party K2 AMT production," he said. According to the news signed by Kim Byung-WOOK, an unnamed DAPA official made the following assessment on the subject; “In order to be able to manufacture third-party K2 tanks with 100% Korean parts, we will conduct additional tests on the transmission system of S&T Dynamics. Although we have changed the way we conduct the test, the threshold is still the same. In other words, the transmission system has to work successfully for 320 hours or 9,600 kilometers without any defects. “There were debates and disagreements between relevant institutions and companies regarding national defense standards regarding the EST15K Transmission, and the regulations were requested to be revised after the parliamentary audit in 2018. The Government of South Korea shared the relevant regulations with the public on Thursday, July 16 so that the test could be conducted "fairly and reasonably". According to a report signed by Kim Byung-WOOK, a defect under DAPA's changing rules refers to "a situation in which a fundamental function of the transmission (shifting, steering, braking) has been lost or the test can no longer continue due to a 'serious' drop in performance ''. WOOK commented on this situation as follows: "Simply put, test results depend entirely on how the military interprets the term 'serious'." The relevant regulations were shared with the public on Thursday, July 16 so that the test could be carried out in a "fair and reasonable way". According to a report signed by Kim Byung-WOOK, a defect under DAPA's changing rules refers to "a situation in which a fundamental function of the transmission (shifting, steering, braking) has been lost or the test can no longer continue due to a 'serious' drop in performance. WOOK commented on this situation as follows: "Simply put, test results depend entirely on how the military interprets the term 'serious'." The relevant regulations were shared with the public on Thursday, July 16 so that the test could be conducted in a "fair and reasonable way". According to a report signed by Kim Byung-WOOK, a defect under DAPA's changing rules refers to "a situation in which a fundamental function of the transmission (shifting, steering, braking) has been lost or the test can no longer continue due to a 'serious' drop in performance ''. WOOK commented on this situation as follows: "Simply put, test results depend entirely on how the military interprets the term 'serious'." braking) or a situation where the test can no longer be continued due to a 'serious' drop in performance ”. WOOK commented on this situation as follows: "Simply put, test results depend entirely on how the military interprets the term 'serious'." braking) or a situation where the test can no longer be continued due to a 'serious' drop in performance ”. WOOK commented on this situation as follows: "Simply put, test results depend entirely on how the military interprets the term 'serious'."

As of November 20, 2020, there was no news in open sources that qualification testing was carried out with the K2 Black Panther AMT equipped with the Korean Power Group and that the EST15K Transmission was approved for Mass Production.

Major Differences Between Korea Power Pack and EuroPowerpack

Doosan Infracore product is a V12 diesel engine with a 4-stroke, 12-cylinder, water-cooled and double turbocharged capacity of 1.500 hp and has a volume of 27.2 liters. The rated speed of the engine is 2,000rpm (2,000 revolutions per minute), while it produces 1,479 hp, while the revolution speed is 2,700rpm. Equipped with a fully electronically controlled Common Rail Injection system capable of producing 4.560Nm of torque at 2,000rpm, the dry weight of the DV27K , measuring 1.828mm x 1.060mm x 1.126mm , is given as 2.578kg . The dry weight of the EST15K Transmission with 140 liter oil capacity and hydraulic torque converter with 6 forward and 3 reverse gears is given as 2.500kg in the product brochure.. EST15K, which is stated in the product brochure, can be used in tanks up to 65 tons, can be matched with both Doosan DV27K and MTU MT883 Ka-501 engines. It has been stated that thanks to the domestic power group, the K2 AMT can reach a speed of 68 km per hour on asphalt and 50 km in the field and can travel 450 km with internal fuel. However, the K2 AMT with a combat weight of 56 tons reached a speed of 32km from zero with its MTU MT883 Ka-501 V12 diesel engine and Renk HSWL 295TM automatic transmission in 7 seconds, while it was claimed to be approximately 8 seconds when equipped with the Korean Power Group. MTU MT883 KA-501 C V12 diesel and 5 having three forward or reverse gear, 2.450kg dry weight of the color HSWL 295TM automatic transmissionThe 63.5 ton ALTAY AMT, which is powered by the EuroPowerpack consisting of n, can reach a speed of 32 km from zero to 32 km in 6s and can travel backwards at a speed of 30km (again reaching in 6s). It is stated that ALTAY AMT, with a combat weight of 63.5 tons, can reach a speed of 65.5km / h with the EuroPowerpack Power Group.

The EuroPowerpack Power Group in ALTAY AMT has a 'U Type Configuration' where the engine is placed parallel to the transmission. In the power group, a 12-cylinder (V-12 type) MT883 Ka-501CR diesel engine, which is the newest member of the 880 series diesel engine family produced by the German MTU company, and provides better fuel saving values, has been preferred. The torque value of the MT883 Ka-501CR Engine, which measures 1.488mm x 972mm x 742mm, is given as 3.687ft-lb (4.999Nm) at 2.000rpm. MT883 Ka-501CR Engine with a volume of 27.4 liters and a dry weight of 1.800kg (3.968lb)It can produce 1,200kW (1,630hp) of power in standard configuration. The motor with an oil capacity of 80kg (21.13 gallons) has a nominal speed of 3,000rpm (3,000 rounds per minute) and can produce 1,496 hp at 2,700rpm. Altay AMT Project engine power in the specification for which is defined as 1.500bg 1.630bg capacity MT883 Ka-501 C diesel engine before being sent to Turkey 'downgrade' (software-based study) have been and were fitted to produce 1.500bg the tanks. Another striking difference / superiority of the ALTAY AMT Power Group from the EuroPowerpack systems used in other tank models is that it has the strongest Cooling System in its class. When the horsepower produced by the power group in all tanks in the world exceeds the defined operating temperature values, It gradually decreases in a controlled manner so that the engine does not overheat and the tank continues its duty. The cooling system in the power group of ALTAY AMT is designed to operate at the highest temperatures in the world without causing any horsepower loss. Otokar engineers also took part in the development of this cooling system.

During the ALTAY AMT Development Phase, a total of 5 sets of EuroPowerpack Power Packs were supplied under the € 12 Million contract signed in October 2010. Four of them were PV1, PV2, MTR and FTR Prototype and Pre-Prototypes, and the 5th power group was used on the tank chassis (No.5 prototype) produced by Otokar on its own initiative to use in mobility tests. An Otokar official I spoke to at that time stated that the 5th power group was financed by Otokar's equity. ALTAY-AHT (Asymmetric Warfare Tank) exhibited by Otokar at IDEF '17 Fair was formed on the number 5 ALTAY AMT body / chassis. Therefore, I was evaluating that at the end of ALTAY AMT Phase-I, PV1, PV2, MTR and FTR Pre-Prototypes and Prototypes, using 4 power groups, were delivered to SSB by Otokar. But, It is claimed that Otokar also delivered its 5th EuroPowerpack Power Group to SSB. Therefore, until the Korea Power Group delivery begins, it will be possible to deliver only 5 ALTAY T1 AMTs at the first stage with the existing power group sets.

Korea Power Group and ALTAY T1 / T2 Main Battle Tanks

BMC, which received 4 pre-prototype and prototype tanks within the scope of ALTAY AMT Project Phase-II, Mass Production Project, will upgrade these prototypes to T1 configuration in accordance with the Contract. In this context, engineering studies were initiated under the responsibility of BMC engineers, and the work was carried out first in the Ankara Engineering Office and then in the Engineering Office, which was moved to Adapazarı and established in Arifiye. The first delivery of the BMC Altay T1 AMT According to the current timetable, T that will carry +24 months.

Many systems on the T1 Demonstrator (formed on the PV2 prototype) prepared by BMC personnel in a 2-month study at the 1st Main Maintenance Factory Directorate were exhibited as a 'dummy' product at the BMC booth at IDEF '19 since they were not ready yet. The main difference between the PV2 prototype and the T1 is due to the Aselsan product AKKOR Active Protection System (AKS) and the Roketsan product developed armor package. On the T1 Demonstrator, there is a back cage armor + thicker ERA package on the hull sides + a new armor package on the turret. There are 4 AKKOR AKS radars around the tower, and there are many electronic units for AKKOR AKS in the tank, so the rear of the tower is a little widened. ALTAY AMT's weight in the current configuration is 63.5 tons, of which 25 tons is the tower weight. In response to our question as to whether the increase in the weight of the tank due to the additional armor package in the T1 version would have a negative impact on the performance of the power group, BMC officials pointed out that there was no need for an extra change, as the weights in the T1 configuration were within their prescribed weight limits. After the 40-unit T1 model, the 210-unit T2 model will also be fitted with AKKOR AKS, but a completely different armor package (I think the French armor system mentioned in Defense News news) will be used in the tank. BMC officials pointed out that the main armor of the tank will also be different and there will be a serious increase in weight. With the approval of the SSB, we will go step by step, ”they had spoken.

Result

It is considered that the Korea Power Group, which is planned to be supplied, is considered for 40 ALTAY T1 AMTs, so that an additional time (24 months) can be gained for the development, testing and production processes of the original power group BATU until T2 production begins.

However, as pointed out above, the Korean Power Group has slightly larger values than the current EuroPowerpack Power Group in terms of both volume and weight, and the torque power it provides is slightly weaker. A certain amount of engineering work will be required to integrate the Korea Power Group into existing ALTAY AMT prototypes or pre-prototypes. In addition, after the integration, the prototype tank and / or tanks equipped with the Korea Power Group will need to be carried out in different terrain and weather conditions for qualification purposes. I think that this process can take an average of 3-6 months. While South Korea was performing 9.600km Endurance Test with K2 AMT, during the System Qualification and Acceptance Tests within the scope of ALTAY AMT Project Phase-I, the PV1 prototype was carried out in different terrain and season / weather conditions. 000km Endurance Tests had been done. During the tests by the MTR and FTR pre-prototypes and the PV1 and PV2 prototypes, a total distance of approximately 26,000 km was covered.

After the Korean Power Group has shown a successful performance in the tests and is certified for ALTAY T1 AMT, it will be possible to submit it to the Mass Production line until mid 2021. However, in order not to experience new delays in the Mass Production process planned as To + 24 months and to achieve the monthly production speed of 6 units committed under the Contract, the deliveries of other important subsystems other than the power group must also comply with the ALTAY T1 AMT Mass Production schedule.
 

Turkreal

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Thankyou MONITOR for posting that. I am reading this on Thanksgiving day in the USA.

Let me say this. Why are we so worried about a 7000 mile reliability issue with korean transmission. Does it really matter. Just replace when they break! Parts break down in time anyways. We shoudn't even need Korean help here. Hell we should have our own gasoline car for export. We make Military trucks. We should export those! We need to start working on our own transmission prototypes and quit worrying on outsiders to help. REVERSE ENGINEER THE MTU powerpack if needed ! We need to start WORK. Just do it!
 

xMustiiej70

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At this point, cancel this stupid project and launch a next-gen tank project also modernize all current leopards to todays standard with APS.
 

Timur

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Mar 23, 2014
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At this point, cancel this stupid project and launch a next-gen tank project also modernize all current leopards to todays standard with APS.
germans did not gave us spare parts when leos were in syria where will this "metal can" drive without spare parts?
 

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