What's new

Air Warfare, Command & Control & Situational Awareness

MastanKhan

PDF VETERAN
Dec 26, 2005
20,165
162
55,892
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States


Hi,

Millienium 7 has brought a very interesting topic and discusses the preparedness of the chinese air force in a precise and comprehensive manner.

It inadvertently also discusses what happened to Feb 27th.

MM Alam in one of his interviews posted on youtube as well stated that when the Paf pilot took of, he had complete authority of engagement in the air. Ove the years Paf proved that its fighter pilots distinguished themselves by their in the air decision making approach rather being controlled by the ground contoller as was done by the Russian and the chinese air forces of the past.

The ground control guideline " CONTROL" had proven disastrous for those air forces that had followed that doctrine and the americans and the israelis succeeded for their free flying approach against threats.

Situational awareness is what made the difference between success and disaster.

At the end of the video he talks about the wakeup call the chinese got during their excercise with the Thai air force in 2015.

Within visual range---the chinese won 25-1----but after a few days when it switched to BVR range, the Thais air force Grippens stomped the chinese air force by 44 - 1. The chinese pilots had very poor situational awareness, they could not take actions against incoming missiles to avoid the hit.

It has almost been 15 years that I had written on this forum---about WVR
WVR merges would be avoided at all costs---WVR was obsolete---BVR was the future. If this forum was older that 15 years I would have written the same in the late 90's.

The chinse pilots showed hardly any situational awareness and had very rigid flight guidelines and that ever after the 1st gulf war.

The chinese did not learn anything---even the PAF was clueless as well---totally stuck in the WVR realm till a few years ago.

Don't get me wrong---WVR may happen under certain conditions---but when the damage can be done at BVR then why the BVR---.

It was just like the Japanese samurais---not accepting the modern modern weapons---rejecting them and going back to swords and arrow and then in the end being smashed by a power which was better at fire fight than hand to hand combat.

The chinese air force did not wake up even after the 2nd Gulf war. It got to the time when they got thrashed by the Thai air force that they realized their short comings.

OTOH PAF that was a visionary air force and far ahead of other air forces---reverted back to the RUSSIAN air force flight guidelines at the critical moment on 27th february.

Even thought here was awacs flight command in the air, there was no planning ahead of time for the scenarion that hap[pened on the 27th.

Now as for the chinese air force changing their tactics---6 years is an extremely short time for the pilots to adjust to this new doctrine.

It would take at least 10 years to see a realistic change and about 15 to 20 years to get of that old rigid mindset of who controls the flight, rigid in following the order and adapting to a fresh and new mindset of situational awareness.

Millenium 7 is the best.
 
Last edited:

IHK_PK

FULL MEMBER
Nov 16, 2010
362
-3
150
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan


Hi,

Millienium 7 has brought a very interesting topic and discusses the preparedness of the chinese air force in a precise and comprehensive manner.

It inadvertently also discusses what happened to Feb 27th.

MM Alam in one of his interviews posted on youtube as well stated that when the Paf pilot took of, he had complete authority of engagement in the air. Ove the years Paf proved that its fighter pilots distinguished themselves by their in the air decision making approach rather being controlled by the ground contoller as was done by the Russian and the chinese air forces of the past.

The ground control guideline " CONTROL" had proven disastrous for those air forces that had followed that doctrine and the americans and the israelis succeeded for their free flying approach against threats.

Situational awareness is what made the difference between success and disaster.

At the end of the video he talks about the wakeup call the chinese got during their excercise with the Thai air force in 2015.

Within visual range---the chinese won 25-1----but after a few days when it switched to BVR range, the Thais air force Grippens stomped the chinese air force by 44 - 1. The chinese pilots had very poor situational awareness, they could not take actions against incoming missiles to avoid the hit.

It has almost been 15 years that I had written on this forum---about WVR
WVR merges would be avoided at all costs---WVR was obsolete---BVR was the future. If this forum was older that 15 years I would have written the same in the late 90's.

The chinse pilots showed hardly any situational awareness and had very rigid flight guidelines and that ever after the 1st gulf war.

The chinese did not learn anything---even the PAF was clueless as well---totally stuck in the WVR realm till a few years ago.

Don't get me wrong---WVR may happen under certain conditions---but when the damage can be done at BVR then why the BVR---.

It was just like the Japanese samurais---not accepting the modern modern weapons---rejecting them and going back to swords and arrow and then in the end being smashed by a power which was better at fire fight than hand to hand combat.

The chinese air force did not wake up even after the 2nd Gulf war. It got to the time when they got thrashed by the Thai air force that they realized their short comings.

OTOH PAF that was a visionary air force and far ahead of other air forces---reverted back to the RUSSIAN air force flight guidelines at the critical moment on 27th february.

Even thought here was awacs flight command in the air, there was no planning ahead of time for the scenarion that hap[pened on the 27th.

Now as for the chinese air force changing their tactics---6 years is an extremely short time for the pilots to adjust to this new doctrine.

It would take at least 10 years to see a realistic change and about 15 to 20 years to get of that old rigid mindset of who controls the flight, rigid in following the order and adapting to a fresh and new mindset of situational awareness.

Millenium 7 is the best.


Feb 27... ?
How it is related ...
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom