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After rolling out new stealth bomber, Pentagon chief warns of pivotal point: ‘We’re aligning our budget as never before to the China challenge’

-=virus=-

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I think the US will be at a disadvantage should S ever HTF wrt China.

China - fortress, well entrenched

US - expeditionary force cowboys

be a fun war to watch, like an Australia vs India test match in India.
 

Beast

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It is YOU who are eating sour grapes and pretending liking it.

We are treating Taiwan as if they are an independent country and the US is not like smaller/weaker countries that China have bullied into submission about Taiwan. We are getting the benefits of trade and that of having a military presence without actually being there. So why should we gain the diplomatic hassles from China by officially recognizing independence for Taiwan? For US, Taiwan is a sweet deal. For China, Taiwan is a sour grape.
Lol... US policy is Taiwan is not independent and Taiwan is part of China. How did u make Taiwan being independent? Did you help Taiwan to chop a place in UN?
 

gambit

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Lol... US policy is Taiwan is not independent and Taiwan is part of China. How did u make Taiwan being independent? Did you help Taiwan to chop a place in UN?
By arming Taiwan. By trading with Taiwan. Essentially, actions speaks louder than words.
 

LeGenD

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I doubt F-22 production stop is purely politics. American are no idiot to stop production of something if it really work so well. There are already plenty of evidence F-22 is not as godly as many claim including the American engineer themselves.

Surely in terms of raw capability of F-22 as a close range dogfighter, F-22 is one of the best due to its immerse twin engine F-119 engine power. But there is plenty of shortcoming of it as F-22 raptor is designed in the early 80s where it didnt benefit from the fast advancement of electronic and computer in the 2000. In terms of stealth, the older generation of stealth coating is problematic and expensive to maintain. the wind inlet is a big source of RCS contribution compare to F-35 DSI.

USAF deemed F-22 is not worth the effort to upgrade F-22 electronic to F-35 that they are preparing future of USAF without F-22.. More or less speaks about the capabilities of F-22 is low in the eye of USAF. The top hierarchy of US military wouldn't easily retire their best but fact is F-22 capabilities and operational readiness is not even the best of USAF or US military. It is an outdated products.

Of course, the typical western fanboy will continue hype about F-22 in order to maintain the image of US military might in the eye of the world opinion.


The Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) project had much less managerial, negotiation, political, and supply chain complexity in comparison to the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) project because ATF was 100% in-house production.

ATF = F-22A
JSF = F-35A/B/C

But F-22A was much more costly to develop in comparison to other jet fighters before F35 variants due to its groundbreaking technologies.

message-editor%2F1631643555843-f-22-export-critical-tech.jpg


Yes, computing technologies were much less capable in the early 1980s in comparison to modern computing technologies. But The ATF project was launched in 1981 and prototypes came out in the 1990s. F-22A was finalized and approved for mass production in 1999.


F-22A design is all about stealth:

st-anim-edges-curves_orig.gif


F-22A has fixed-geometry serpentine inlets that block Line-of-Sight (LOS) to the engine from the front.

F-22A also have significant measures to hide turbine blades of the engine from the rear. F-119 engine has curved fuel injection vanes and unusually long tailpipe to significantly reduce visibility of turbine blades from the rear. Exhaust nozzles are also hidden behind the tail components.

4809802434_299d9f1425_b.jpg



F-22A structure is made up of several substances including a mosaic of radar-absorbent coatings and radar transparent and radar defeating composite structures. This type of structure is known to suffer degradation when subjected to environmental extremes and high g-forces and increase maintenance requirements accordingly but this experiment is worth the effort and Americans continue to test new applications to improve resilience.



You might wonder how US could develop such a stealthy jet fighter in the 1990s?

Americans were learning how to develop stealthy aircraft in the 1960s with the SR-71 Blackbird project.


They had a significant headstart in this domain and their understanding of it only grew from experience in time.

F-22A code is also written in a language that is largely unknown to others. It is virtually impossible to hack by extension.

- - -

Donald Rumsfeld was an influential political figure and felt that F-22A was an ambitious undertaking and overkill for the post Cold War world at the time of its development. For a man of his credentials (two-times Secretary of Defense), he was surprisingly lacking in vision. But Americans know better now.

- - -

F-22A avionics including sensor systems were a generation ahead of anything that was fielded around the world in the 1st decade of the 21st century. F-22A technologies continue to be among the most complex and advanced in service.

The AN/APG-77v1 LPI radar system is the largest and most powerful of its kind with 1956 TRMs and threat detection range in excess of 400 KM mark and uplifted to 4th generation AESA standard.

APG-80%252011.jpg


The AN/ALR 94 EW suite is said to be the most complex piece of equipment in use in a jet fighter with more than 30 associated antennas blended into the wings and fuselage for 360 degree coverage and threat detection range in excess of 453 KM mark.


For perspective:

Rafale F3R = 3 antennas associated with onboard EW suite

MiG-35 = 4 antennas associated with onboard EW suite

F-35A/B/C = 10 antennas associated with onboard EW suite

Standard count = 3 - 4

The AN/AAR-56 Missile Launch Detection (MLD) is an extrapolation of the MAWS found in 4+ generation jet fighters, and provides detection of different types of missiles (airborne and surface-launched) with image processing capability.


17-february-2017-145818-gmt-0530_1_orig.jpg


Total sensor count = 6 (for 360 degree coverage)

F-22A is also the FIRST jet fighter to feature integrated avionics wherein the radar system, weapons management system, and electronic warfare (EW) system work as one, giving the pilot unprecedented "situation awareness."

F-22-A-Raptor-Avonics-Architecture.png


F-22A defined 5th generation fighter standard and features for the world to emulate.

F-35 technology concepts are all borrowed from F-22A.

- - -

F-22A is NOT hyped for its namesake but what it brings to the table for aerial warfare in purely technical terms.

You can see in my response above that it is a marvel of engineering on all counts. It is feared because of its remarkable combination of stealthy characteristics, engine technology, and classified aspects.

Further insight is in links below.


It puts everything to shame out there.




Nobody is using the term "godly" here but it is true that F-22A presents extraordinary challenges to opposing forces. Russia found out as much in Syria. Opposing forces are very likely to suffer heavy losses when up against a batch of F-22A and would be forced to abort instead.

F-22A is being modernized as well. It was brought up to Increment 3.2b standard in hardware terms and Update 6 in software terms in 2019.


F-22A will receive further updates down the road:


But here is something. F-22A has parts that are NOT found in other jet fighters. It will be costly to revive its production, therefore. The focus is on NGAD now. Some F-22A units were converted into a test bed for NGAD technologies in recent years. The idea is to transition from F-22A to NGAD smoothly.

Americans have learned much from past experiences and getting it right this time.

You might complain about typical western fanboys but I am NOT one of them. I am NOT paid to hype American achievements on this forum and elsewhere. I am simply pointing out the obvious as a distant observer. I am providing potentially valuable information and perspective to fellow members. You should be thankful. It is important to learn from these developments.

I am an advocate of realistic threat assessment and common sense decisions. If a society is in hubris, it will be prone to geopolitical miscalculations by extension. And a geopolitical miscalculation can prove very costly as Russia has found out in Ukraine lately.
 

jhungary

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I think the US will be at a disadvantage should S ever HTF wrt China.

China - fortress, well entrenched

US - expeditionary force cowboys

be a fun war to watch, like an Australia vs India test match in India.
If ever there is a US v China scenario in China, let's set aside the use of Nuclear weapon, US force in Asia will most likely be devastated. But in exchange, the entire Chinese industrial base, which is mostly based on the coast will also be devastated.

It would be easy for US to rebuild their force in Asia, because US mainland is probably not going to be touched by the Chinese (again, in a non-nuclear scenario) at most China can hit the US in Hawaii or even as far as Alaska if they can break out of Japan but US and its allies would throw literally everything to destroy as many Chinese infrastructure as possible. Plus the subsequent embargo would mean China would most likely suffer more than what Russia is going thru today.

More likely than not, if there is a US v China scenario, nuclear weapon will be use, which render this pointless.
 

-=virus=-

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If ever there is a US v China scenario in China, let's set aside the use of Nuclear weapon, US force in Asia will most likely be devastated. But in exchange, the entire Chinese industrial base, which is mostly based on the coast will also be devastated.

It would be easy for US to rebuild their force in Asia, because US mainland is probably not going to be touched by the Chinese (again, in a non-nuclear scenario) at most China can hit the US in Hawaii or even as far as Alaska if they can break out of Japan but US and its allies would throw literally everything to destroy as many Chinese infrastructure as possible. Plus the subsequent embargo would mean China would most likely suffer more than what Russia is going thru today.

More likely than not, if there is a US v China scenario, nuclear weapon will be use, which render this pointless.
Hope it doesn't come to that, which it most likely will not.. in case it does, however, it'll be much more of a challenge for the US to prevail in such an "away game" scenario.. they're no Eye-rack or Lib-yah.

and agree, non military but economic means/weapons is probably how the US can leverage/pile on the pressure on China.
 

Beast

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The Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) project had much less managerial, negotiation, political, and supply chain complexity in comparison to the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) project because ATF was 100% in-house production.

ATF = F-22A
JSF = F-35A/B/C

But F-22A was much more costly to develop in comparison to other jet fighters before F35 variants due to its groundbreaking technologies.

message-editor%2F1631643555843-f-22-export-critical-tech.jpg


Yes, computing technologies were much less capable in the early 1980s in comparison to modern computing technologies. But The ATF project was launched in 1981 and prototypes came out in the 1990s. F-22A was finalized and approved for mass production in 1999.


F-22A design is all about stealth:

st-anim-edges-curves_orig.gif


F-22A has fixed-geometry serpentine inlets that block Line-of-Sight (LOS) to the engine from the front.

F-22A also have significant measures to hide turbine blades of the engine from the rear. F-119 engine has curved fuel injection vanes and unusually long tailpipe to significantly reduce visibility of turbine blades from the rear. Exhaust nozzles are also hidden behind the tail components.

4809802434_299d9f1425_b.jpg



F-22A structure is made up of several substances including a mosaic of radar-absorbent coatings and radar transparent and radar defeating composite structures. This type of structure is known to suffer degradation when subjected to environmental extremes and high g-forces and increase maintenance requirements accordingly but this experiment is worth the effort and Americans continue to test new applications to improve resilience.



You might wonder how US could develop such a stealthy jet fighter in the 1990s?

Americans were learning how to develop stealthy aircraft in the 1960s with the SR-71 Blackbird project.


They had a significant headstart in this domain and their understanding of it only grew from experience in time.

F-22A code is also written in a language that is largely unknown to others. It is virtually impossible to hack by extension.

- - -

Donald Rumsfeld was an influential political figure and felt that F-22A was an ambitious undertaking and overkill for the post Cold War world at the time of its development. For a man of his credentials (two-times Secretary of Defense), he was surprisingly lacking in vision. But Americans know better now.

- - -

F-22A avionics including sensor systems were a generation ahead of anything that was fielded around the world in the 1st decade of the 21st century. F-22A technologies continue to be among the most complex and advanced in service.

The AN/APG-77v1 LPI radar system is the largest and most powerful of its kind with 1956 TRMs and threat detection range in excess of 400 KM mark and uplifted to 4th generation AESA standard.

APG-80%252011.jpg


The AN/ALR 94 EW suite is said to be the most complex piece of equipment in use in a jet fighter with more than 30 associated antennas blended into the wings and fuselage for 360 degree coverage and threat detection range in excess of 453 KM mark.


For perspective:

Rafale F3R = 3 antennas associated with onboard EW suite

MiG-35 = 4 antennas associated with onboard EW suite

F-35A/B/C = 10 antennas associated with onboard EW suite

Standard count = 3 - 4

The AN/AAR-56 Missile Launch Detection (MLD) is an extrapolation of the MAWS found in 4+ generation jet fighters, and provides detection of different types of missiles (airborne and surface-launched) with image processing capability.


17-february-2017-145818-gmt-0530_1_orig.jpg


Total sensor count = 6 (for 360 degree coverage)

F-22A is also the FIRST jet fighter to feature integrated avionics wherein the radar system, weapons management system, and electronic warfare (EW) system work as one, giving the pilot unprecedented "situation awareness."

F-22-A-Raptor-Avonics-Architecture.png


F-22A defined 5th generation fighter standard and features for the world to emulate.

F-35 technology concepts are all borrowed from F-22A.

- - -

F-22A is NOT hyped for its namesake but what it brings to the table for aerial warfare in purely technical terms.

You can see in my response above that it is a marvel of engineering on all counts. It is feared because of its remarkable combination of stealthy characteristics, engine technology, and classified aspects.

Further insight is in links below.


It puts everything to shame out there.




Nobody is using the term "godly" here but it is true that F-22A presents extraordinary challenges to opposing forces. Russia found out as much in Syria. Opposing forces are very likely to suffer heavy losses when up against a batch of F-22A and would be forced to abort instead.

F-22A is being modernized as well. It was brought up to Increment 3.2b standard in hardware terms and Update 6 in software terms in 2019.


F-22A will receive further updates down the road:


But here is something. F-22A has parts that are NOT found in other jet fighters. It will be costly to revive its production, therefore. The focus is on NGAD now. Some F-22A units were converted into a test bed for NGAD technologies in recent years. The idea is to transition from F-22A to NGAD smoothly.

Americans have learned much from past experiences and getting it right this time.

You might complain about typical western fanboys but I am NOT one of them. I am NOT paid to hype American achievements on this forum and elsewhere. I am simply pointing out the obvious as a distant observer. I am providing potentially valuable information and perspective to fellow members. You should be thankful. It is important to learn from these developments.

I am an advocate of realistic threat assessment and common sense decisions. If a society is in hubris, it will be prone to geopolitical miscalculations by extension. And a geopolitical miscalculation can prove very costly as Russia has found out in Ukraine lately.
Yes, F-22 has a lot of first. But common sense tells you. If F-22 is better than F-35, they wouldn't retired it and build a future USAF without it. The cost to simply upgrade it to match F-35 are simply too costly and not worth the effort. Better retired it and used the money to get more F-35.
 

jhungary

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Hope it doesn't come to that, which it most likely will not.. in case it does, however, it'll be much more of a challenge for the US to prevail in such an "away game" scenario.. they're no Eye-rack or Lib-yah.

and agree, non military but economic means/weapons is probably how the US can leverage/pile on the pressure on China.
Well, as I said, if US and China is at war, US will NOT prevail. They will probably lose chunk of the Force in Asia.

The problem is, the Chinese will most likely also lose a big chunk of their force and their industrial capability to goes with.
 

CLUMSY

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I think the US will be at a disadvantage should S ever HTF wrt China.

China - fortress, well entrenched

US - expeditionary force cowboys

be a fun war to watch, like an Australia vs India test match in India.
I mean, US expeditionary forces arent really a joke
 

-=virus=-

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I mean, US expeditionary forces arent really a joke
No, far from, mashallah.. mushkil se mushkil logistics operations pull off kar lete hai... my point was ki ab tak (modern era) they've been taking on much weaker adversaries. China will present a much bigger challenge.. who will facilitate their transport.. Japan, RoK, Pinoys ? I doubt...

India, BD don't count even if they would allow (which they likely wouldn't anyway) because the jung will be along China's industrial and finance + population hubs, all along their east coast.
 

SIPRA

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No, far from, mashallah.. mushkil se mushkil logistics operations pull off kar lete hai... my point was ki ab tak (modern era) they've been taking on much weaker adversaries. China will present a much bigger challenge.. who will facilitate their transport.. Japan, RoK, Pinoys ? I doubt...

India, BD don't count even if they would allow (which they likely wouldn't anyway) because the jung will be along China's industrial and finance + population hubs, all along their east coast.

I believe that US has no plans to confront China directly. At best, it would like to bait China into some proxy war, as it is doing in Ukraine. India wouldn't enter into any such folly; so the only option is Taiwan. In that event, other regional US allies, like Japan, SK etc. etc. would play only the role of facilitators, as EU is doing in Russia-Ukraine War. India may also play such a role, or remain neutral.
 

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