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Aces of PAF

Adam_Khan

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2 mysteres one vatour and one mirage
Saif ul Azam shot down the Gnat of Flying officer Mayadev during 1965 war while in the Arab Israel war he shot down one Mystere IV while flying Jordanian hunter. Next day he shifted to Iraqi Airforce and shot down a single Vatour bomber and a Mirage III.

Regarding Alam,there was a tendency to over claim.
 

The SC

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Literal definition of an "ACE" pilot is 5 or more kills. Post WW2 in the jet age obviously the number of aces decreased exponentially over time. Only the likes of Russia, Israel, USA, North Vietnam and Iran to my knowledge could claim several pilots achieved ACE status (one from Iraq as well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iraqi_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war)

Can anyone provide how many officially, non-officially and possible claims of ACE status we had from PAF? Obviously the only one that comes to mind is M.M Alam who claimed a total of 9 kills (I believe 5 were fully confirmed by PAF while IAF still only concedes 4 losses to him), but other than that did we have any official claimants?

I believe Syed Saad Hatmi and Cecil Chaudhry each claimed 5 each (although some of those were very doubtful) and Khalid Mahmood, Shamsul Haq and Saif Ul Azam each came very close with 4 each.
Well..maybe you can add this to your knowledge:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/flying-arab-aces-1967-1973.665676/
 

Baibars_1260

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Question : Why are the achievements of PAF pilots who courageously fought the Soviet Union's air force over Afghanistan given less media coverage than those who fought in the Pakistan India conflicts?

The Soviet Afghan War brought a heavy responsibility on the Pakistan Air Force to defend their airspace from frequent bombing of the border areas.,During the Soviet–Afghan War, between May 1986 and January 1989, Pakistan Air Force shot down at least 10 intruders from Afghanistan. Four of the kills were Afghan Su-22s bombers, three were Afghan transports (two An-26s and one An-24), and one was a Soviet Su-25 bomber. It is now known that several Soviet pilots were captured when they ejected from their aircraft inside Pakistani territory. They were held for long periods before being returned to the Soviet Union. Amongst these was Alexander Rutskoi who was a senior commander and fighter pilot in the Soviet VVS. Later Rutskoi became a political opposition figure during and after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Fighting a then super power stationed directly on the borders with significantly large air power.
assets was no mean task. In retrospect ( as compared to the Pakistan India skirmishes in 2019) the strikes by the Soviet Union's VVS did cause significant losses on Mujahideen training and refugee camps inside Pakistan ( even though the Soviet Union never struck any Pakistani military targets). The fact that for the first 5 years of the war the PAF pilots ( like Rao Qamar Sulaiman) were trying to take on Mig 23s, and Su-22s flying F-6s and Mirage III speaks volumes for their professionalism.
Why isn't equal media coverage given to these Pakistani aces, and why are they not called out and honored at the annual PAF events?
 

GriffinsRule

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Question : Why are the achievements of PAF pilots who courageously fought the Soviet Union's air force over Afghanistan given less media coverage than those who fought in the Pakistan India conflicts?

The Soviet Afghan War brought a heavy responsibility on the Pakistan Air Force to defend their airspace from frequent bombing of the border areas.,During the Soviet–Afghan War, between May 1986 and January 1989, Pakistan Air Force shot down at least 10 intruders from Afghanistan. Four of the kills were Afghan Su-22s bombers, three were Afghan transports (two An-26s and one An-24), and one was a Soviet Su-25 bomber. It is now known that several Soviet pilots were captured when they ejected from their aircraft inside Pakistani territory. They were held for long periods before being returned to the Soviet Union. Amongst these was Alexander Rutskoi who was a senior commander and fighter pilot in the Soviet VVS. Later Rutskoi became a political opposition figure during and after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Fighting a then super power stationed directly on the borders with significantly large air power.
assets was no mean task. In retrospect ( as compared to the Pakistan India skirmishes in 2019) the strikes by the Soviet Union's VVS did cause significant losses on Mujahideen training and refugee camps inside Pakistan ( even though the Soviet Union never struck any Pakistani military targets). The fact that for the first 5 years of the war the PAF pilots ( like Rao Qamar Sulaiman) were trying to take on Mig 23s, and Su-22s flying F-6s and Mirage III speaks volumes for their professionalism.
Why isn't equal media coverage given to these Pakistani aces, and why are they not called out and honored at the annual PAF events?
As it was not a war and PAF shot down mostly bombers and not fighter escorts ... easy kills if you could catch them on your side of the border. And there was little chance to getting shot down as well.
 

Baibars_1260

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As it was not a war and PAF shot down mostly bombers and not fighter escorts ... easy kills if you could catch them on your side of the border. And there was little chance to getting shot down as well.
Perhaps. From other accounts, PAF also flew sorties deep into Afghanistan, and the VVS and AfAF lost aircraft there as well. Amongst others these were believed to be Mig 23s, Mig 21s, Su-22s & Su-7s, as well as some helicopters. Shooting down a Mig 23 or a Su 22 over its home territory is a very credible achievement. For unknown reasons these victories were neither claimed by Pakistan nor were they acknowledged by the Soviet Union. However Western sources do confirm PAF victories based on the capture ( and often torture and execution) of downed Soviet pilots by the Mujahideen. One PAF F-16 was lost to friendly fire over Afghanistan.
But the question is still out there:
There was no state of war with India in 2019 either yet two planes were downed and one pilot was captured. A feat by any standard and the event was rightfully celebrated. But wasn't taking on Su 22s and Mig 23s flown by skilled Soviet pilots an equal achievement?
 

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