• Monday, July 13, 2020

A Vision of a New Combined Arms Philosophy & Doctrine

Discussion in 'Pakistan Army' started by Armchair, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Armchair

    Armchair SENIOR MEMBER

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    Interesting, I'm a big fan of Simon and Garfinkel too.

    I'm just showing the water obstacle India has, an example of it.
     
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  2. Armchair

    Armchair SENIOR MEMBER

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    Overplanning is a disease that develops during peacetime. In real war situations, it is often the split second decisions that are critical. Military books explain how an army that is too rigid and cautious will get a lot of casualties but few friendly fire incidents. While an army that is more flexible and intuitive in its decision making, and willing to take risks will tend to get more friendly fire incidents.

    The best approach is to balance both. In Gulf War 1, the US used flexibility and initiative to allow lower echelons the ability to do their thing, this resulted in a lot of friendly fire incidents, but the success of the army was far greater.

    In contrast, you see the Turkish army in Syria has zero friendly fire incidents but tons of casualties of own forces. They are the extreme of overcaution and over planning with little initiative shown by local military commanders.
     
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  3. Armchair

    Armchair SENIOR MEMBER

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    A week has passed since the 1 month war of January 2025. Front lines have stabilized but random artillery duels still sometimes continue. A ceasefire had been called on February 10th. The world community is building tremendous pressure on Pakistan for returning to the original international borders but PM Imran Khan's position was stoic, Pakistan would return Indian territory if Kashmir is given.

    India on its part promised a plebiscite but only after Pakistan returns her ill-gotten territory. Pakistan wants the plebiscite first. The West and Russia are moving military resupply to India and China is doing the same for Pakistan. The PLA is still at the border and India is acutely aware that a pincer from both would easily now cut off Kashmir.

    A large number of Indian refugees are streaming in to India. There are 100,000 refugees from Punjab, Haryana and Gujarat. 100,000 more is expected. Pakistan is helping the refugees with a green bus service from various captured towns and cities to the Indian border. This is straining the Indian state.

    India meanwhile is attempting to organize its paramilitary forces such as the BSF into units capable of taking on Pakistan. They are hoping to organize at least five new infantry divisions. Pakistan, having started this game 5 years ago, now has 250,000 conscript soldiers. Its paramilitary forces had already been upgraded to army standards during the war against TTP back in 2010.

    While all the conscript forces had not been called up due to the sudden nature of the January war, as the full conscription mechanism came into play, these 250,000 soldiers now constitute a theoretical capacity for 25 new divisions.

    Pulling all stops of calling in retired military and reorganizing all paramilitary forces, Pakistan was able to call upon:

    1. 110,00 FC
    2. 40,000 Rangers
    3. 50,000 Retired personnel from paramilitary .
    4. 100,000 Retired personnel from army

    This constituted a total of 300,000 soldiers and an equivalent of 30 divisions.
    These were armed with trainloads of Chinese gear sent as relief through the Karakhorum Highway.

    These new divisions are serial number from the 100th mark starting with 101st Division and the Corps are marked from 90th.

    With a theoretical possibility of 55 new divisions, Pakistan is only able to create a degraded infantry division of about 25 new divisions due to lack of equipment. Captured enemy equipment during the successful blitz through Thar allows Pakistan to equip about 10 more degraded infantry division equivalents.

    The rest of the 20 division equivalent are organized into reserve infantry divisions to hold rear areas with relatively light weapons.

    Pakistan Army now has 26 professional divisions, 35 additional tier 2 divisions and 20 reserve divisions. The army is too big to organize into Corps alone so Army Groups have been created, each Army Group being composed of three Corps units.

    Thus the field-able army is 61 divisions to 81 divisions, or 7 to 9 Army Groups.

    new map 2.png

    Both sides of the border are now in a long gridlock. There is little to no space to maneuver with these WWII sized armies. However, one negative change for the Indians is that their force concentration in Kashmir has been significantly thinned out, with both paramilitary forces and regular troops being pulled back to defend the flanks in the Jammu - Chandigarh axis.

    At dawn on the 11th of February, 2025, Azad Kashmiris rise up and, alongside the Pakistan Army attack India in numbers never seen before. Meanwhile, from within the Valley of Kashmir, Kashmiris rise up with large sections of the population coming out in support of freedom.

    War resumes across the entire border, but Pakistani forces in newly conquered territory find that the Indians have provided them with a wonderful network of railway lines, canals and DCBs. Using this massive spine, Pakistani forces are largely able to stave off any Indian attempt to retake territory while the hordes of Azad Kashmiris alongside the Pakistan army swarm the Kashmir front like ants, racing to their brethren.

    As Indian XV Corps and XVI Corps find an insurmountable enemy and their rear being threatened by the Kashmiri uprising, the Indian Army begins a general retreat, starting with the XIV Corps. In an orderly manner, they pull out from Kashmir, while holding on to Jammu.

    Freedom has finally arrived in the Vale of Kashmir, paradise on Earth. new map 3.png
     
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  4. Armchair

    Armchair SENIOR MEMBER

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    Allama Iqbal's dream and Mohammad Ali Jinnah's last wish and command finally fulfilled.
     
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  5. Mumm-Ra

    Mumm-Ra FULL MEMBER

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    Better hold those horses buddy. You're going way too fast into unchartered territory. You were told by Panzerkiel to go study the terrain and see what approach will be best for you, how will you manage your force and old joe also pointed to give your formations strategic level and divisional level objectives. Also, take into account any strong response from IA. let's see only the area of Sindh/ Rajistan. You have your wish and Pak has the following ORBAT as per your new combined arms philosophy (This is taken from @Gryphon , Your addition are shown in Red):
    5 Corps (HQ Karachi):
    • 16 Infantry Division - Pano Aqil
    • 18 Infantry Division - Hyderabad
    • 21 Artillery Division - Pano Aqil
    • Corps Artillery Brigade
    Reserve 5 Corps:
    • HQ 25 Mechanized Division - Malir (commands 2 IABG - Malir, 12 IABG - Malir and 330 IABG - Malir)
    • 31 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Karachi

    Army Air Defence Command (HQ Rawalpindi; Corps-equivalent):
    • 4 AD Division - Malir
    Marine Command (HQ Karachi; Corps-equivalent):
    • I Marine Division - Malir
    • I Airborne Brigade - Malir
    Facing you is the IA Soutern Command with ORBAT
    outhern Command, Pune, Maharashtra
    XII Corps, headquartered at Jodhpur, Rajasthan
    • 4th Armoured Brigade
    • 340th Mechanised Brigade
    • 11th Infantry Division headquartered at Ahmedabad
    • 12th RAPID headquartered at Jodhpur
    • U/I Artillery BDE
    XXI Corps, headquartered at Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh

    So now, How will you move your forces and what will be asix of attack? What will be IA's response. To further illustrate my point, look at post #208 from @Signalian in the thread https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/retaking-kashmir-after-70-years.603628/page-14. See if you can make something even remotely close. See the google maps and try to see what can be the objective of your forces and the enemy's. No one is expecting you to reach the same level but let's see what you come up with.
     
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  6. Blacklight

    Blacklight PROFESSIONAL

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    floating bridge ---.jpg

    Har Ghari Tayyar kamran hain hum
    Jesay hon halaat shadman hain hum
    Apne Mulk-o-Qaum ke Nigehban hain hum
    Pakistani Fauj ke jawan hain hum
    Har tarah ke marhalay uboor karain gai
    Dushmanon ko zair hum zaroor karain gai
    Madr-e-watan ko misl-e-noor karain gai
    Jazba-e-Jehad se mamoor karain gai
    Apne mulk-o-qaum ke nigehban hain hum
    Pakistani Fauj ke jawan hain hum

     
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  7. FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

    FOOLS_NIGHTMARE SENIOR MEMBER

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    One of favourites of the 70s. PTV used to advertise this tirana regularly for a massive recruitment drive for PA ,initiated by the PM ZA Bhutto. The original version is below.
     
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  8. ali_raza

    ali_raza SENIOR MEMBER

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    cant agree more.
    late gen hameed gul said
    modi is a good news for us
     
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  9. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    To not deprive 5-Corps any of its formations and let the Corps move ahead with in its AOR as per its Exs and planning for war time. The 33rd Div Bde and Marines are operating south of it.
     
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  10. PanzerKiel

    PanzerKiel PROFESSIONAL

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    33 Division elements operating south of it may not be a good idea.
     
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  11. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    how so
     
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  12. PanzerKiel

    PanzerKiel PROFESSIONAL

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    Taking stock of forces at every stage of battle, one may find, at any given moment, that the Army commander does not have potent, uncommitted and fresh forces at hand for influencing battle at army level in different zones of operation.
     
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  13. Armchair

    Armchair SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think what @PanzerKiel means is that the forces in Quetta are critically important for defending Pakistan between Nawabshah to Rahimyar Khan. There are few major formations south.
     
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  14. Gryphon

    Gryphon SENIOR MEMBER

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    I will be posting an improved ORBAT next month. Few interesting changes.

    Correct!

    Most 33 Div brigades are based in east-Balochistan and its structure suggests this is a counterattack force available at the command level.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
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  15. Zulfiqar

    Zulfiqar FULL MEMBER

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    While I may be of not much use here but this whole discussion reminds me of a post by Xeric (another officer that used to post here).


    https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/question-pakistan-army-mobilization.352110/page-2#post-6629058