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A view of Hong Kong that will never see light in any Western Media

_NOBODY_

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I actually wouldn't be able to shed much light on those questions, but you can refer to some of these youtube vloggers who have a lot of info about that.




Thank you so much. What worries me about going to Hong Kong is the fact that international students are not allowed to work a part-time job. This makes it way too expensive to live in Hong Kong as an international student.
 

DF41

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Hong Kong is on the list of countries where I would like to do my Master's from; additionally, Hong Kong having close proximity to Shenzhen(my favourite city in the world) makes it very attractive to me as Shenzhen is the tech capital of Asia and my field of study is computer science. The only reason why mainland China is not on my list is because I don't know Mandarin and I lack the time needed to learn it. Can one thrive in a place like Shenzhen without knowing Mandarin?


You worry far too much about knowing Mandarin.

When I was send to live and work in Taiwan, I went there not able to speak Chinese or read Chinese.
First few months were horrendous as 99.9% of folks in Taiwan then in early 90s cannot speak English.

I picked up Mandarin fast enough that by the 6th month I could have conversations with local Taiwanese friends , and simultaneously eavesdrop on nearby conversations in Chinese.

Your fear of Chinese language will be your biggest hurdle to overcome because of lots of fake horror stories of how difficult to speak Chinese, and not the Chinese language.

Look at it this way, if the Chinese language take years and years to learn as so declared by ang mohs self styled experts, than how little toddlers and 1 year old kids play and talk? :yay:

By all account of angmoh self styled experts, those kids should be catatonic and tongue tied instead of chatting with each other and playing with each other :enjoy:
 

Hamartia Antidote

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"...225,000 immigrants from Hong Kong over the 10 years leading up to its return to China by the United Kingdom in 1997"

I'm sure most of them did not go back.

The girl in this video says Chinese immigration to this city has actually accelerated in the last few years.
 
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WotTen

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I work with a Chinese guy from Hong Kong and he said a lot of anti-China propaganda started in HK during the 90s by the British and HK authorities.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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From my WhatsApp feed.

[02/04, 08:39] C B: Personal story of a HK lady

"HONG KONG 2020 – LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT"

I was born and raised in Hong Kong under British Colonial rule. We were groomed to have manners, respect our parents and teachers. We had discipline. Did we complain? No. I think it was great training. I taught my kids the same way.

During the 60s and 70s, people in Hong Kong just focused on making money. Nobody paid attention to politics, it was not an option.Only very few top Hong Kong citizens got involved with law-making and execution. Top Government posts were dominated by British Gwei-los (鬼佬).

Did we complain? No. Did we ask for democracy and voting rights? No. It was simply unimaginable. Some people now ask for return to the old days. Do they really know what it was like? 747 landing at Kai Tak Airport in the 1970s. Very different HK then.

By the early 80s, people started talking about 1997. I remember in secondary school, our teachers said “ah, no worries, nobody really pay attention to the lease. Life goes on.” But people started paying attention, and the British and Chinese government started negotiations.

Then came June 4, 1989 (another long story), which recent events led many of us to believe that fake and manipulated news already started back then. Which then led to the emigration wave of the early 90s.

My parents emigrated to Canada, like the rest of their friends and relatives. By then I was already in the US, completed my undergraduate studies, started law school and was all ready to settle in the US for the rest of my life.

We were a bit worried about Hong Kong and its future. We thought Communist China was such a scary place, poor and backward, no freedom and democracy. Must be hell to live there. No way will I ever go visit, let alone live there. NEVER!!!

Beautiful San Francisco! I don’t miss it, but the years there shaped who I am today.

Then came 1997, Hong Kong did not sink under the ocean. People who stayed were still there. My sister’s family lived there, life went on.

Then came the 1998 financial crisis, who’s fault? Irrelevant here, didn’t affect me. Then came 911 in the US (2001), who’s fault? Let’s not go there.

It so happened my husband had been interviewing and received a job offer to go to Shanghai. We figured the US economy would be in a ditch for quite some time post 911. He accepted the offer on September 11 and moved to Shanghai December 2001.

By 2001, I was married, with a set of 5 years old twins, and a good stable job. But both my husband and I were not truly happy in the US. We were NEVER discriminated against, we had good jobs, we voted and all that. But we never felt we belong there and did not really assimilate into mainstream American life.

Fears of terrorism scared me. So when the opportunity to go China arose, I was quite open to consider it. The fear of Communist China had dissipated, and we were hearing good things about the changes already happening there. So kids and I followed in December 2003.

NEVER SAY NEVER!!!

Beautiful Shanghai! My experiences in China made me a wiser, more resourceful and tougher person.

Shanghai was A M A Z I N G. In the early 2000s, there was still a lot of construction. We settled in a nice apartment, kids in international schools (even with special ed support).

We were brave to invest in real estate (against all our friends’ warnings* *about risk and lack of RMB liquidity blah blah blah). We travelled everywhere in China, and Asia, and went back to Hong Kong regularly.

Not for one second did we feel we had less freedom than when we were in the US. Yeah yeah, FB, Google and Whatsapp were blocked, we just used VPN. We even tested the legal system, won a lawsuit, and got compensated fairly.

Resourceful people can be anywhere. Exploit the good and avoid the bad. Survival of the fittest. Which brings me to my next point. There is no utopia on earth, and there is no perfect country or government that can ensure anyone’s wellbeing or happiness.

America has been practicing “democracy” for 200 years, and look who they elected for President? Trump, arguably the worst head of state in history. And see what a mess it was just this past election. And we still want to follow them?

Please, really NEVER NEVER NEVER.

Democracy or 民主 in Chinese, really means rule by popular vote? What if it’s 51-49? And you are part of the 49? You would still be pissed right? And your problems still unsolved, still no job, no car, no house, then what?

So “共产党 the Chinese Communist Party” sounds spine-chilling and blood-curdling, right? Images of the Cultural Revolution and June 4 immediately comes to mind. But even if those were huge mistakes (arguable now with June 4), those events happened 60 and 30 years ago.

How come no one talks about the Japanese Nanjing Massacre or Hitler Concentration camps anymore. Such selective memory. Or is it because the media only choose to remind us of all the bad things China has done or may have done.

I choose to forget and forgive. I choose to believe only what I see and experience myself. I lived in the US for 20 years, then Shanghai 15 years, and now we have been back in Hong Kong since 2016. I think I am qualified to compare because mine are real life first hand experiences.

In the US, I saw inefficiencies, chaos and frustration created by a so-called democratic system. How many airports or infrastructure projects have the US completed in the past 30 years?

I also saw the lack of respect for authority, discipline or hierarchy justified by so-called rights of privacy, freedom and democracy.

When in China, I witnessed the sincerity and immense country-wide efforts of the entire Chinese nation during the 2008 Olympics and 2010 Expo, how they welcomed the whole world to China, showed the world how much they progressed and how ready and willing China was to become a responsible player in the new world order.

I also observed how an entire new generation of Mainland Chinese people, in all echelons of life, demonstrated such burning desire to excel, and as a result drastically improved their standard of living.

Now I am back in Hong Kong, my hometown, I see a society torn apart by political views. People are either blue (pro-China) or yellow (anti-China).

Government efforts to encourage young people to find jobs in the Greater Bay Area (11 cities including Hong Kong and Macau in Southern China) or seniors to retire there, get bashed by reporters as efforts to “sell” Hong Kong or to deplete precious human resources from Hong Kong.

I am still so shocked when I hear these accusations. Why are Hong Kong people so biased? Maybe we left Hong Kong too many years, we don’t understand how they feel?

We were willing to move to Shanghai from the US in 2001 because we saw an opportunity, and we survived, very well.

It’s a “no-brainer” that China will do so much better than the rest of the world, post-COVID, and our young Hong Kong “talents” don’t see that. I am appalled.

There is no utopia, yet any place can be utopia.

Just take this COVID crisis and compare how the US and China handled the battle.

Yes, arguably there’s no “privacy” in China, but compulsory real-name authenticated phone numbers, facial recognition, CCTVs everywhere, quick complete lock down of communities and whole cities, compulsory testing and quarantine, enabled China to completely eradicate the virus in several months, with very few cases now, mainly imported.

Of course, there were some initial sacrifices, but the individual freedom and rights gave way to the greater good.

In the words of China’s foreign affairs spokeswoman, “Chinese people have never in recent history displayed a higher sense of happiness, pride, safety and security” and politely asked the CNN reporter to stop asking biased questions with no factual basis.

I cannot agree more.

China just wants to be left alone. But God forbid China is now ahead in some areas like 5G technology. There will be no end to accusations of China disturbing the world order and having aggressive intentions.

以小人之心度君子之腹 and 贼喊着贼 are two Chinese sayings that accurately describe what the US likes to do. (Google translate if you don’t read Chinese, but you may not get the exact connotation. Learn Chinese or watch Mainland Chinese soap operas. 5000 years of wisdom there).

As a Hong Kong (SAR) Chinese citizen, I hold a passport that allows me visa-free entry into most countries in the world. I pay the lowest income taxes compared to most countries in the world, and zero capital gains tax. I hold a Mainland Travel Permit that allows me to live and work in China with no restriction, and increasing benefits provided by the Greater Bay Area Plan.

We are the envy of all 1.4 billion people inside China who have to pay more taxes and receive less privileges and freedom to travel. And we all just take it for granted.

During this COVID crisis, the Hong Kong government pays for all medical costs associated with forced quarantine and confirmed cases admitted to hospitals. Even mild cases are admitted to hospitals and not just asked to stay home and get better like in most countries.

Hong Kong is and will always be an inseparable part of China. Hong Kong has its own identity, it will always be special, like Shanghai and Beijing are special too.

Because of our history, we are fortunate to have choices. There is absolutely nothing wrong with emigrating to US, Canada or UK. My generation has been there and done that.

We have many friends and family happily settled in the US/Canada/UK, albeit they are frustrated because Trump made their lives miserable too.

But those who choose to leave Hong Kong now because media and hallucinations lead them to believe that Hong Kong will decline and there will be no more freedom and rights blah blah blah, then I guarantee you, they will miss the best ride ever and regret it for the rest of their lives.

This is the best time in history to be Chinese, and to be in Hong Kong and China. As far as I know, I am home. Home sweet home.

Beautiful Hong Kong.

Enjoying our retirement in Hong Kong and the Greater Bay Area. Can’t wait for the high-speed train to run again.
[02/04, 08:39] C B: Loved it so much I spent 10 mins tidying it up. Solly

The biggest thing from this article is to know that there is always the option for Chinese people in the US/Canada to leave. This article shows it can be done with little fuss. Not a single mention in the article about a bit of difficulty.

However the facts show that there are MILLIONS of Chinese who have moved from Hong Kong/China in the last 30 years to North America who have chosen not to go back.

I honestly think the Chinese PDF members here have absolutely no clue of the scale of the exodus just in the last 20 or so years to just the US (nevermind Canada)...and this is something Chinese media will never never never tell you. It's been a flood.

Look at this carefully as it is incredible:
chinesePopulation.png

This doesn't count the others who are simply working or going to school here.

As someone who is a similar age as the author i can attest that walking the streets of the US in 1980 the number of Chinese were few and far between.

Today the streets are FILLED with Chinese people. This is not just some "here and there" situation it is highly noticeable.

So sure you posted one story of some lady who went back. But for every story of somebody who went back there are probably 10,000 stories of somebody who stayed...or just moved here.

Just imagine if the streets of Beijing suddenly had a number of Americans who can fit into your Bird's Nest stadium multiple times walking around it's center. It would be very very very noticeable.
Beijing_National_Stadium_2008_Summer_Paralympicss.jpg


This one story is just a drop in the bucket.

Just look at all the PDF members with Chinese/US flags.
 
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FuturePAF

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The biggest thing from this article is to know that there is always the option for Chinese people in the US/Canada to leave. This article shows it can be done with little fuss. Not a single mention in the article about a bit of difficulty.

However the facts show that there are MILLIONS of Chinese who have moved from Hong Kong/China in the last 30 years to North America who have chosen not to go back.

I honestly think the Chinese PDF members here have absolutely no clue of the scale of the exodus just in the last 20 or so years to just the US (nevermind Canada)...and this is something Chinese media will never never never tell you. It's been a flood.

Look at this carefully as it is incredible:
View attachment 835164

As someone who is a similar age as the author i can attest that walking the streets of the US in 1980 the number of Chinese were few and far between.

Today the streets are FILLED with Chinese immigrants. This is not just some "here and there" situation it is highly noticeable.

So sure you posted one story of some lady who went back. But for every story of somebody who went back there are probably 10,000 stories of somebody who stayed...or just moved here.
Did you ever go to Flushing, Queens in those days. A few Chinese shops here and there, but now people (Like Laowhy86 the youtube) say it’s the best place to go in the US to get the closest experience to being in China.


I still remember in 1993 that ship carry all those immigrants from China that landed in the Rockaways.

From this article, what I took away is the class difference. Perhaps this woman and her family were well off enough to travel and invest, but many of us immigrants came with nothing, and worked for years to build up a life in the west. What needs to be understood is that the economic situation wasn’t the best for many that made the hard choice to leave behind their families and immigrate. It wasn’t all roses here in the west either. Maybe both counties have gotten more prosperous, which is a good thing, but there are still many, especially the young that don’t feel they can make it in the city they call home. There are A lot of people in New York and San Francisco, that grew up there but can’t afford to live there, and move away to other parts of America. So it’s not a US vs. China thing as much as feeling you belong somewhere and with people that you grew up with and finding a way to afford to do so. Shenzhen will never be Hong Kong for the kids that grew up in Hong Kong, the same way Jersey won’t be New York.

 
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Hamartia Antidote

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Did you ever go to Flushing, Queens in those days. A few Chinese shops here and there, but now people (Like Laowhy86 the youtube) say it’s the best place to go in the US to get the closest experience to being in China.


I still remember in 1993 that ship carry all the immigrants from China that landed in the Rockaways.


Well I'm not a NYC expert but the Chinatown in Flushing has been around for a while...it's actually the original NYC Chinatown location.
 

FuturePAF

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Well I'm not a NYC expert but the Chinatown in Flushing has been around for a while...it's actually the original NYC Chinatown location.

See the link, it’s a block by block set of pictures of Flushing From the 1980s. With that same website you can check Chinatown in Manhattan and see the difference. Also, if you want to go further back; check out the following link to see New York in the 1940s. Most of Flushing Chinatown is only two generations old, while the one in Manhattan has been around for almost 200 years.



P.s.

Are you really an American? Manhatran’s Chinatown is well known location predating Flushing Chinatown and Brooklyn’s Chinatown
 

Hamartia Antidote

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What needs to be understood is that the economic situation wasn’t the best for many that made the hard choice to leave behind their families and immigrate. It wasn’t all roses here in the west either. Maybe both counties have gotten more prosperous, which is a good thing, but there are still many, especially the young that don’t feel they can make it in the city they call home. There are A lot of people in New York and San Francisco, that grew up there but can’t afford to live there, and move away to other parts of America. So it’s not a US vs. China thing as much as feeling you belong somewhere and with people that you grew up with and finding a way to afford to do so. Shenzhen will never be Hong Kong for the kids that grew up in Hong Kong, the same way Jersey won’t be New York.


Apparently just like the US, China had this North/South prejudice. The northerners are considered the educated while the southerners are the backwards poor bumpkins.

Pre 1990 most of the Chinese immigration were the Southern bumpkins. While in the last 20 it has been the educated northerners.
 
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FuturePAF

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Apparently just like the US, China has this North/South prejudice. The northerners are considered the educated while the southerners are the backwards poor bumpkins.

Pre 1990 most of the Chinese immigration were the Southern bumpkins. While in the last 20 it has been the northerners.
The three NY chinatowns are divided along regions, the three groups being Northerners (Mandarin speakers), Southerners (Cantonese speakers) and Fujianese. I think the Fujianese predominate in Manhattan, the Cantonese in Flushing and the Mandarin speaking Northerners in Brooklyn.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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The three NY chinatowns are divided along regions, the three groups being Northerners (Mandarin speakers), Southerners (Cantonese speakers) and Fujianese. I think the Fujianese predominate in Manhattan, the Cantonese in Flushing and the Mandarin speaking Northerners in Brooklyn.

Notice any difference in how successful the northern parts are compared to the southern?

While the northerners are considered smarter they are considered far less "street smart". The southerners are the shrewd bargainers and the ones likely to cut corners.

So I'm going to guess the Northern areas look nicer but the Southern ones have cheaper food.




I'm not a New Yorker. I thought the original Chinatown was in Queens..in Flushing.

But looking at the wiki apparently Manhattan is the original
There are multiple Chinatowns in the borough of Queens in New York City. The original Queens Chinatown emerged in Flushing, initially as a satellite of the original Manhattan Chinatown,
 
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FuturePAF

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Notice any difference in how successful the northern parts are compared to the southern?

While the northerners are considered smarter they are considered far less "street smart". The southerners are the shrewd bargainers and the ones likely to cut corners.

So I'm going to guess the Northern areas look nicer but the Southern ones have cheaper food.




I'm not a New Yorker. I thought the original Chinatown was in Queens..in Flushing.

But looking at the wiki apparently Manhattan is the original
There are multiple Chinatowns in the borough of Queens in New York City. The original Queens Chinatown emerged in Flushing, initially as a satellite of the original Manhattan Chinatown,
They all use to live together, In Manhattan’s China, then expanded to Flushing about 25-30 years ago, and in the past 10-15 years they have really picked up in Brooklyn. But the community has been in all three areas to some extend for decades and decades prior, just in smaller numbers.

Brooklyn Chinatown was formerly 65% Italian and 30% Jewish. As these people moved to the suburbs, Chinese people (and others) bought their homes. I think the Southerners liked the more communal aspect of Flushing (so they choose to live in apartment buildings to stay close to the community)

Are you sure you are not a Beijinger? You seem kind harsh on the southerners.

This is Bensonhurst in the early 90s, when it was mostly Italian.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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Are you sure you are not a Beijinger? You seem kind harsh on the southerners.

That distinct North/South description is the song the northerners I deal with repeatedly sing. The southerners on the other hand say absolutely nothing about it. Hey maybe if I pressed them hard they might call them "carpetbaggers". lol.

Well this is what pops into my mind when I think of Bensonhurst...Al Sharpton too.

led to some riots

30 years later it's mostly asian...interesting.
 
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