• Saturday, October 19, 2019

A study of Indian and Pakistani social culture and values: PEW

Discussion in 'World Affairs' started by AUz, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. AUz

    AUz ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,028
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Ratings:
    +29 / 12,430 / -44
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    India and Pakistan come from same historical and geographical background. However, after independence from British in 1947---both newly formed countries sought to develop their own independent identities. Pakistan defined itself by its Islamic credentials and actively sought to become a part of global Islamic civilization rather than defining itself by its Indian roots and Indic culture. Pakistan became an Islamic Republic and enshrined Islam in its constitution and legal code. Over the decades, Pakistan's Islamic identity only further consolidated due to various factors. All of this gave rise to a distinct Pakistani culture and identity that differs from Indian culture and identity--which has been based on more liberal lifestyle and ideas of secular nationalism.

    Let's look how Pakistani and Indian cultural and social values compare today. Below is the data from PEW's 2014-15 global survey on social and cultural values.

    [​IMG]


    Conclusion

    This comprehensive survey of cultural and social values reveals a very interesting reality on the ground. Although both countries have conservative cultures with respect to the Western world, there is a 20 or sometimes even 30 points difference in the opinions of Pakistanis and Indians when it comes to topics such as alcohol consumption, premarital sex, homosexuality, abortion, divorce, contraception use, and gambling. Overall, Islamic Republic of Pakistan has established a culture that is much more inlined with Islamic ethics and traditional modes of life integrated with modern economy and technological age. Whereas India, on the other hand, has tilted more towards more liberal/Western social culture (comparatively to Pakistan) that is intertwined under a secular nationalist umbrella.

    These views are not just theoretical but translated into real life experiences, lifestyles, and identities of the people of Pakistan and India. For example, take alcohol consumption in India and Pakistan.

    Average alcohol consumption per capita: World Health Organization's 2014-15 report

    India: 4.3 litres
    Pakistan: 0.1 litres

    So in general, an average Indian consumes 43 times more alcohol than average Pakistani. Similar to alcohol consumption, the cultural views revealed in the survey above translate into other aspects of life in India and Pakistan as well---whether its marriage rates, divorce rates, dress codes, adherence to religion, demographics/fertility, public laws, and so on.

    In conclusion, Indians and Pakistanis have similar genetic make up and geographic/historical orgins. However, over the years, both countries have evolved to develop their own unique culture, social values, and identity (while maintaining many similarities with each other as well). While Pakistan has successfully kept it's traditional culture and Islamic heritage, Indians have given more space to Westernization/foreign influences in their society.


     
    • Thanks Thanks x 8
  2. graphican

    graphican ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,321
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Ratings:
    +38 / 14,700 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Australia
    This is not just between India vs Pakistan, conduct this within India between Hindus and Muslims and you will find they are mentally wired on different standards. As a matter of fact, core of Hinduism and Islam are against each other.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  3. AUz

    AUz ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,028
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Ratings:
    +29 / 12,430 / -44
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    Below are some highlighted differences between Indian and Pakistanis cultural and social values:

    [INDIA]
    ----------------------------------Acceptable-------Unacceptable-----Not a moral issue

    Alcohol consumption-----------10%---------------------66%----------------16%

    Premarital Sex-------------------10%---------------------67% ----------------11%

    Homosexuality--------------------9%---------------------67%---------------- 11%

    Abortion---------------------------17%--------------------58%-----------------10%

    Extramarital Affairs------------14%--------------------62%-----------------13%

    Divorce-----------------------------18%--------------------53%-----------------10%

    Contraception Use---------------59%--------------------22%-----------------7%

    Gambling---------------------------7%---------------------69%-----------------16%



    [PAKISTAN]
    --------------------------------Acceptable---------Unacceptable-------Not a moral issue

    Alcohol consumption----------1%---------------------94%----------------------2%

    Premarital Sex------------------0%---------------------94%----------------------2%

    Homosexuality------------------1%---------------------85%----------------------3%

    Abortion------------------------- 1%---------------------85%---------------- -----4%

    Extramarital Affairs-----------0%---------------------92%----------------------3%

    Divorce---------------------------10%--------------------73%----------------------5%

    Contraception Use-------------12%--------------------65%----------------------7%

    Gambling-------------------------0%---------------------95%----------------------3%


    Islamic culture of Muslim Pakistanis gives them some civilizational advantages over Indians (mainly Hindus as Muslims of India also have their own unique Islamic culture as mentioned by @graphican). Indians have gotten Westernized/foreignized and materialistic without developing themselves first. Muslim Pakistanis fare better in terms of lack of alcohol use, prevalence of premarital sex, healthier marriage rates, traditional respect for religion and culture (gender relations, clothing styles etc are reflections), lower divorce rates, and so on. All of this promotes a culture whereby marriage is seen as the gateway to "sex" and ultimately child bearing. Any "deviant behavior" carries far more costly consequences for Muslim Pakistanis socially (and legally by the state as well) than for Indians/Hindus. This cultural structure and discipline leads to a life pattern whereby fertility rates are healthier and children born as a result grow up under a traditionally Islamic ecosystem (Family--School--Society)--all while maintaining Pakistani identity, indigenous roots, and continuing the journey of material, economic, infrastructural, political, and social development.

    This can also explain why Pakistan has been doing better than India when it comes to demographic development and average fertility rates (even though Pakistan has been relatively more prosperous than India with far less poverty and much higher levels of median wealth throughout much of the last 65 years post Independence). Generally, countries with higher levels of poverty and lesser prosperity tend to have higher fertility rates. But Pakistan has not only kept higher levels of prosperity, median wealth per capita, and less poverty--but it has also surpassed India in terms of demographic expansion and consolidation.

    Quite fascinating to be honest. Pakistan's cultural values might give some insight as to how it was able to achieve all of this in past 65 years.


    Pakistan's Islamic roots and heritage has allowed it to develop a relatively more fitter social culture as compared to secular Indian culture...even though both Indians and Pakistanis shared similar genetic, geographic, and historical identity.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  4. Gregor Clegane

    Gregor Clegane BANNED

    Messages:
    1,358
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1,786 / -20
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Good to see Indians being progressive
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  5. lastofthepatriots

    lastofthepatriots SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,910
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Ratings:
    +10 / 12,611 / -30
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    :lol:

    What are Indians progressing towards?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 8
  6. Srinivas

    Srinivas ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,118
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Ratings:
    +8 / 14,791 / -26
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    The testimony of cultural superiority of India and Pakistan is evident if you look at both countries and where they stand.

     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  7. @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::>

    @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,529
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2016
    Ratings:
    +3 / 2,582 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Turkey
    I want them to continue getting increasingly "progressive". I am happy to see that divorce, extramarital affairs, homosexuality is rising in India. :D
     
  8. AUz

    AUz ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,028
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Ratings:
    +29 / 12,430 / -44
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States

    Foreignization of their social culture. indians feel "happy" to see they act more wanna be westerners now :lol:

    I just saw a youtube video where bunch of indian girls were talking about 'casual sex' as a de-stress from hectic work life etc. And they'll feel 'proud' in that progressivism. Afterall, they were talking in their typical broken English accent :enjoy:


    Weaker, inferior cultures being over run by powerful global cultures. Islam shaped indian culture for centuries, and now it's Westernization's time I guess.

    Offcourse it's evident...

    Pakistan is much cleaner than india.

    Pakistan is much less poor than india

    Pakistan has much higher median wealth and income rates than poor average indians.

    Pakistan has much higher food supply per capita than india (and remember, Pakistan started as having LOWER food supply per capita than resourceful india at the time of partition).

    Pakistan has higher urbanization rates than india

    Pakistan has 48x less rapes than india.

    Should I continue and talk about toilets as well? :lol:

    Stay on the topic and discuss facts and figures relating to social culture of both countries. Don't troll and mudsling by your one-liners.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. Srinivas

    Srinivas ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,118
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Ratings:
    +8 / 14,791 / -26
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Pdf is a funny place, where some people post their hallucinations.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 11
  10. Srinivas

    Srinivas ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,118
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Ratings:
    +8 / 14,791 / -26
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India

    https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-beats-pakistan-in-hdi-indexes.484907/
    Check this link !
     
  11. wiseone2

    wiseone2 BANNED

    Messages:
    8,856
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1 / 2,409 / -18
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    United States
    that is a fair question
     
  12. xairhossi

    xairhossi FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    326
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Ratings:
    +2 / 321 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Even all of India is not from the same historic or geographic background. It varies greatly.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. nik141993

    nik141993 BANNED

    Messages:
    509
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,024 / -12
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Pakistan TFR(2016) = 3.7
    India TFR(2016)= 2.3


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  14. AUz

    AUz ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,028
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Ratings:
    +29 / 12,430 / -44
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    That's exactly my point.

    Pakistan's fertility rates are near 3 to 3.5 kids per woman--which are much more healthier than Indian TFR.

    The 'sweet spot' of fertility for a developing nation is around 3 kids per woman, and for a developed nation, it's around 2.5 kids per woman.

    Africa is growing too much (and too poor)---while Europe is shrinking because there fertility is much below the levels required to sustain their populations.

    India has already huge population so it's not that big of a problem.

    More fitter social cultures produce fitter/better fertility rates.

    Pakistan's social culture is far superior to India's, and you can see it in the fertility rates development.

    Pakistan is more prosperous and wealthier, yet has better fertility rates than India...thanks to it's more fitter social culture.

    @Margarita @futurewar

    Read the OP and post number 3.

    It explains in detail the difference and similarities between indian and Pakistani culture.

    This is backed by data analysis and not some dumbo writing his opinion pieces. A good thread relating to the thread opened by margarita regarding city life in India and Pakistan.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. prashantazazel

    prashantazazel FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,573
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2014
    Ratings:
    +0 / 775 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Looks good. We are improving.
    But still way behind the developed countries.