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A Solution to Kashmir

Squashh

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Is it more important to safeguard the people or secure the land?

It is clear from Indian position that they not care about the plight of Kashmiri people, they are Muslim so that makes Indian state even more aloof. People of India probably don't have time or incentive to do protests nationwide to show solidarity with the Kashmiris either.

What should be the line of action in this case? We have already gone to war 3 times and war has never been a solution to any problem, rather it exacerbates it.

So my question is what is Pak's priority? The land or the people or both? What are the strategic/economic advantages in gaining the land, we still do not own it but it does not seem to effect us that much. Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration?
 

NirmalKrish

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Is it more important to safeguard the people or secure the land?

It is clear from Indian position that they not care about the plight of Kashmiri people, they are Muslim so that makes Indian state even more aloof. People of India probably don't have time or incentive to do protests nationwide to show solidarity with the Kashmiris either.

What should be the line of action in this case? We have already gone to war 3 times and war has never been a solution to any problem, rather it exacerbates it.

So my question is what is Pak's priority? The land or the people or both? What are the strategic/economic advantages in gaining the land, we still do not own it but it does not seem to effect us that much. Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration?
Simple solution, leave it and go you will be spared the headache and humiliation of a anther defeat!
 

Squashh

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Simple solution, leave it and go you will be spared the headache and humiliation of a anther defeat!
No ones here to vent and no ones looking for war. Pakistan does not want to snatch Kashmir believe it or not, but you as an Indian don't seem sensitive to their problem, I only ever sense anger or ruthlessness.
 

cerberus

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No ones here to vent and no ones looking for war. Pakistan does not want to snatch Kashmir believe it or not, but you as an Indian don't seem sensitive to their problem, I only ever sense anger or ruthlessness.
Snatch you think sitting at home typing any thing will have actual relevance to reality

Are u joking or what ?Pakistan army neither have numbers nor equipment or resources to wage conventional war against India presently or in future Gap so wide

If there was way GHQ Rawalpindi would have think about that
Proxy war in 90s will only tell you that your army know it place that's why whole concept of Defensive force developed

This is not any tribals or militants
But flighting a war with professional Army is in different league

How do you think you will penetrate
Formidable Indian defence which has eliminated human resource


At best you can sent forces of more than 2 Lakh soilder's in offensive strike campaign considering rest into protecting other theatres like which you failed in 1965

How do you break J&K which has
More than 7 lakh troops including paramilitary operating in state in war time it will be a million Troops at stretch

Only way is to cross is international border which will be diplomatic suicide at present times
Considering your image

That's why I say talking is Cheap
 
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baajey

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No ones here to vent and no ones looking for war. Pakistan does not want to snatch Kashmir believe it or not, but you as an Indian don't seem sensitive to their problem, I only ever sense anger or ruthlessness.
its a matter of perspectives maam.
since JnK is inside india's borders, so we shall forget Pakistan for a brief period of time.
now, any self respecting indian would not accept further division of our country. security, nationalism, or blatant ego. take ur pick.
but nationalism or ego cant be put above the well being of the general populace. unfortunately, security is a different ball game. now u will question, what kind of security risk we Indians have if we free Kashmir from the "ruthless clutches of India".
-- I ll answer geo strategic perspective vis a vis the honeymoon b/w china and Pakistan. we cannot give them free real estate on the platter. Pakistan cannot be trusted after what it did in Kargil ( don't bring siachen, as siachen was no man's land, but kargil was not).
--second reason being water. enuf said.
but is it morally correct to let a whole population suffer because majority of the country's ppl think that security is at stake ? for politicians , maybe yes. but for an ordinary person, its a big no. I believe we fight together , we die together. no putting forward a few to death to save many from some undesirable consequence.
so, what needs to be done ?
----immediate withdrawal of AFSPA.
----abolish article 370, even if the whole valley changes to stoneland.
----withdraw every security personnel (except police ) from the cities /towns/villages and put them on the border, so that Indians cant complain its the Pakistanis messing it up.
---- initiate large scale projects on education and industrialization on the same order.
---- when situation normalizes, both parts of Kashmir can be connected in various points (but that's at least one decade away, if the above steps are implemented at their timeframe.).

kashmiris are heartbroken, but they are not brainless idiots. if they need handholding, so be it. but priority will always be for the greater players here. states can play second fiddle. and Kashmir is not a player here, its a state.
 

Joe Shearer

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its a matter of perspectives maam.
since JnK is inside india's borders, so we shall forget Pakistan for a brief period of time.
now, any self respecting indian would not accept further division of our country. security, nationalism, or blatant ego. take ur pick.
but nationalism or ego cant be put above the well being of the general populace. unfortunately, security is a different ball game. now u will question, what kind of security risk we Indians have if we free Kashmir from the "ruthless clutches of India".
-- I ll answer geo strategic perspective vis a vis the honeymoon b/w china and Pakistan. we cannot give them free real estate on the platter. Pakistan cannot be trusted after what it did in Kargil ( don't bring siachen, as siachen was no man's land, but kargil was not).
--second reason being water. enuf said.
but is it morally correct to let a whole population suffer because majority of the country's ppl think that security is at stake ? for politicians , maybe yes. but for an ordinary person, its a big no. I believe we fight together , we die together. no putting forward a few to death to save many from some undesirable consequence.
so, what needs to be done ?
----immediate withdrawal of AFSPA.
----abolish article 370, even if the whole valley changes to stoneland.
----withdraw every security personnel (except police ) from the cities /towns/villages and put them on the border, so that Indians cant complain its the Pakistanis messing it up.
---- initiate large scale projects on education and industrialization on the same order.
---- when situation normalizes, both parts of Kashmir can be connected in various points (but that's at least one decade away, if the above steps are implemented at their timeframe.).

kashmiris are heartbroken, but they are not brainless idiots. if they need handholding, so be it. but priority will always be for the greater players here. states can play second fiddle. and Kashmir is not a player here, its a state.
VERY nice post.
 

ito

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Is it more important to safeguard the people or secure the land?

It is clear from Indian position that they not care about the plight of Kashmiri people, they are Muslim so that makes Indian state even more aloof. People of India probably don't have time or incentive to do protests nationwide to show solidarity with the Kashmiris either.

What should be the line of action in this case? We have already gone to war 3 times and war has never been a solution to any problem, rather it exacerbates it.

So my question is what is Pak's priority? The land or the people or both? What are the strategic/economic advantages in gaining the land, we still do not own it but it does not seem to effect us that much. Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration?
They are Indians. There is no question of the government of India agreeing for any migration of them into Pakistan unless of course if it is on their own will.

And what do you mean by Muslims in India. There are 180 million muslims who call India their home as many as Muslims in Pakistan.
 

Zibago

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Is it more important to safeguard the people or secure the land?

It is clear from Indian position that they not care about the plight of Kashmiri people, they are Muslim so that makes Indian state even more aloof. People of India probably don't have time or incentive to do protests nationwide to show solidarity with the Kashmiris either.

What should be the line of action in this case? We have already gone to war 3 times and war has never been a solution to any problem, rather it exacerbates it.

So my question is what is Pak's priority? The land or the people or both? What are the strategic/economic advantages in gaining the land, we still do not own it but it does not seem to effect us that much. Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration?
To the Kashmiris are nothing but a problem thats it they even justify mass rapes and mass graves

Is it more important to safeguard the people or secure the land?

It is clear from Indian position that they not care about the plight of Kashmiri people, they are Muslim so that makes Indian state even more aloof. People of India probably don't have time or incentive to do protests nationwide to show solidarity with the Kashmiris either.

What should be the line of action in this case? We have already gone to war 3 times and war has never been a solution to any problem, rather it exacerbates it.

So my question is what is Pak's priority? The land or the people or both? What are the strategic/economic advantages in gaining the land, we still do not own it but it does not seem to effect us that much. Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration?
We alrady have about 40k refugees from iok in Azad Kashmir alone but now its not so easy to escape you get shot at on the loc by BSF if they try and their families are taken out by occupational forces
 

Spectre

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its a matter of perspectives maam.
since JnK is inside india's borders, so we shall forget Pakistan for a brief period of time.
now, any self respecting indian would not accept further division of our country. security, nationalism, or blatant ego. take ur pick.
but nationalism or ego cant be put above the well being of the general populace. unfortunately, security is a different ball game. now u will question, what kind of security risk we Indians have if we free Kashmir from the "ruthless clutches of India".
-- I ll answer geo strategic perspective vis a vis the honeymoon b/w china and Pakistan. we cannot give them free real estate on the platter. Pakistan cannot be trusted after what it did in Kargil ( don't bring siachen, as siachen was no man's land, but kargil was not).
--second reason being water. enuf said.
but is it morally correct to let a whole population suffer because majority of the country's ppl think that security is at stake ? for politicians , maybe yes. but for an ordinary person, its a big no. I believe we fight together , we die together. no putting forward a few to death to save many from some undesirable consequence.
so, what needs to be done ?
----immediate withdrawal of AFSPA.
----abolish article 370, even if the whole valley changes to stoneland.
----withdraw every security personnel (except police ) from the cities /towns/villages and put them on the border, so that Indians cant complain its the Pakistanis messing it up.
---- initiate large scale projects on education and industrialization on the same order.
---- when situation normalizes, both parts of Kashmir can be connected in various points (but that's at least one decade away, if the above steps are implemented at their timeframe.).

kashmiris are heartbroken, but they are not brainless idiots. if they need handholding, so be it. but priority will always be for the greater players here. states can play second fiddle. and Kashmir is not a player here, its a state.

What an idiotic and naive notion but thankfully you are far far away from policy making.

Instead of ripping holes - I would just say that India has done enough, A country cannot GIVE GIVE AND GIVE, if certain section of populace out there want to take up the route of violence then violence they will get. No more coddling and soft loves, there is a time for carrot and time for a stick - rebellions are not put down by throwing money but decimating even the memory of rebels. If we Indians despite 70 years think there can be a peaceful solutions without breaking some eggs then we probably deserve to be annexed by Pakistan and be ruled over for another 1000 years or so.

Oh i so miss Mrs Gandhi, ironically the last politician to posses some balls
 

baajey

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To the Kashmiris are nothing but a problem thats it they even justify mass rapes and mass graves
unfortunately yes. it is indeed a problem.
but we should also take care of the fact that many propaganda is making rounds in Kashmir and elsewhere. and they are being spread by both the sides, naturally.
so the mass rapes and mass killings, are not entirely true. but having said that, I must , admit that they aren't entirely propaganda either. there must have been many excesses by the security forces there. its apparent that a place which hosts a big armed force for considerable period of time will face many human rights problems.
india should stop looking Kashmir through the prism of Pakistan. maybe only then, things could improve.
but seeing the power hungry and money hungry administrators on both sides of the border, I am not very optimistic.
my genuine sympathies to the Kashmiri ppl, including pandits.
 

SparrowJack

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Is it more important to safeguard the people or secure the land?

It is clear from Indian position that they not care about the plight of Kashmiri people, they are Muslim so that makes Indian state even more aloof. People of India probably don't have time or incentive to do protests nationwide to show solidarity with the Kashmiris either.

What should be the line of action in this case? We have already gone to war 3 times and war has never been a solution to any problem, rather it exacerbates it.

So my question is what is Pak's priority? The land or the people or both? What are the strategic/economic advantages in gaining the land, we still do not own it but it does not seem to effect us that much. Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration?
You answered it yourself

Do we have enough room to accomodate the people if we begin the process of cross border migration

Those want to stay in Indian Kashmir can stay here like the Pandits and half of Muslim population,those who prefer Pak can go to Pak occupied Kashmir

You do not give a piece of your land bcuz some non state actors are providing support to the proxy....None of the countries in the world will do that...

Thirdly we do care about the people but if they take up arms against our forces then they certainly will face the consequences....
Think of this like your people raising voice against Pak,you will feel sympathy for them at first but once they start bombing ur rangers you will have no qualms if they are shot
 

Indika

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To the Kashmiris are nothing but a problem thats it they even justify mass rapes and mass graves


We alrady have about 40k refugees from iok in Azad Kashmir alone but now its not so easy to escape you get shot at on the loc by BSF if they try and their families are taken out by occupational forces
No body is justifying any thing. Kashmiris brought this upon themselves. Remember army was not present on streets until 1989. There might be indiscretions in the past by indian state but it is not the only one to be blamed.
Kashmiris are no saints and India is no sinner either. Its high time few of those strayed out kashmiris started thinking out on their own. It makes more sense to talk to Indian govt thru democratic process rather than becoming canon fodder for some one else.

In few words stop being useful idiots.
 

SparrowJack

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To the Kashmiris are nothing but a problem thats it they even justify mass rapes and mass graves


We alrady have about 40k refugees from iok in Azad Kashmir alone but now its not so easy to escape you get shot at on the loc by BSF if they try and their families are taken out by occupational forces
Coming rich from a guy whose army is accused of raping 3 lakh women from their own country
 
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Joe Shearer

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Snatch you think sitting at home typing any thing will have actual relevance to reality

Are u joking or what ?Pakistan army neither have numbers nor equipment or resources to wage conventional war against India presently or in future Gap so wide

If there was way GHQ Rawalpindi would have think about that
Proxy war in 90s will only tell you that your army know it place that's why whole concept of Defensive force developed

This is not any tribals or militants
But flighting a war with professional Army is in different league

How do you think you will penetrate
Formidable Indian defence which has eliminated human resource


At best you can sent forces of more than 2 Lakh soilder's in offensive strike campaign considering rest into protecting other theatres like which you failed in 1965

How do you break J&K which has
More than 7 lakh troops including paramilitary operating in state
in war time it will be a million Troops at stretch

Only way is to cross is international border which will be diplomatic suicide at present times
Considering your image

That's why I say talking is Cheap
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
 

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