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A different approch to naval warship :absalon class combat/flexible support ship

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by monitor, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

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    dear members i am starting a new thread for the first time about a totally different type of war ship which is seems a bridge between frigate and Lpd . so discuss this warship and possibility of such ship for pakistan navy which at this moment lucking Lpd and surely can solve this problem along with serving as a modern frigate.thanks
     
  2. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

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  3. Penguin

    Penguin PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    The Absolon class allows the Danish navy to introduce (limited) lift cabpability while keeping the total number of ships down. Because these ships are armed the same way as the Patrol Ship that Denmark is also building, 4 Niels Juel class light frigates / corvettes can be paid off and replaced by 3 Patrol Ships (and 2 Absolon class flexible support ships)

    The patrol ships are built at the Odense Steel Ship Yard at Lindoe, which also built the command and support ships of the ABSALON Class. The patrol ships use the same hull as the ABSALON Class, and the propulsion system will be almost the same, but with 4 main engines, giving the ship a higher maximum speed at around 28 knots. The endurance will be 9,000 nautical miles at 15 knots, and the ship can hold the sea for around 30 days with-out additional supplies, increasing its ability during international operations.

    Personally, I don't see how PN has use for the Absolon class. The Patrol Ship might better suite its needs.
     
  4. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

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    why i have been advocating about this ship is that this ship can work as command and control ship for pakistan navy which doesn't have any.As it also have the offensive power to act as a frigate and work as a major workhorse during humaniterian mission. secondly is it impossible to take the idea of all in one hull principal and increase the l rear haul further to accomodate more helicopter to work as a LHD/LPD.i am looking expert opinion about this transformation and constractive disscusion . thanks
     
  5. Penguin

    Penguin PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    2 of the 4 Dutch LCF (Zeven Provincien class) are fitted as command ships. There are no external differences. If the need is a command and control ship, there is not necessarily a need for the ability to haul troops and military cargo around. I'm quite sure a Danish Patrol Ship could very adequately fullfil the command role. PN can barely muster 6 frigates at present and is struggling to get newer ships and a greater number of ships. A ship such as the Absalon classis a luxery PN can't afford (and, more importantly, has no need for as it's main task is to protect Pakistan's shores and sea lanes of communication). Pakistan is unlike Danmark, which has specific tasks in the context of Nato plus Greenland to look after.

    See Iver Huitfeldt class frigate.
    3d animation
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
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  6. Quwa

    Quwa Research Partner

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    I agree the Patrol Ships would be a better fit for the PN than the Absalon Class. Penguin, does the listed cost ($800mn for 3 ships) include the cost of sensors, radar, electronics, weapon-systems, etc - or just the hull? In any case, PN isn't going to be acquiring new ships of this scale for a while (my guess 10~12 years at least). IMO the PN has its options, it can develop a ship with China, with Turkey (based on TF-2000), and who knows who else, Germany (based on MEKO500/600), etc. IMO we need to settle out a medium-displacement general purpose frigate with balanced capabilities...e.g. something based on TF-100, MEKO D '350' or A200, South Korean FFX, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  7. Penguin

    Penguin PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    From my reading of the financial section at that Danish site, I'm inclined to say INCLUSIVE. sensors, radar etc. Possibly not counting ESSM and Harpoon missile inventory expansion etc (these weapons are already in inventory for SF 300 class for example). However, should Danish navy want longer range missiles included (SM2) or switch from 76mm gun to 127mm gun, then these are to be costed seperately.
     
  8. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

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    Absalon Class a Successful Merging of Warship Designs

    NEWTOWN, Conn. - Naval history is full of efforts to build hybrid warships, in which two disparate functions are accommodated within a single hull. Examples include the brief affection in the 1930s for aircraft-carrying cruisers that combined a 6-inch or 8-inch gun battery with a flight deck and hangar for aircraft. In World War II, there were even battleship-aircraft carriers that combined battleship guns and aircraft flight decks. None of these designs were very successful; it quickly became apparent that efforts to combine such functions seriously degraded the efficiency of both without conferring any corresponding advantages.

    One of the rare cases where ship roles have been successfully combined has been that of frigate and transport. This is a combination that goes back a very long way indeed; in fact, warships actually evolved from armed transports. The famous East Indiamen of the 18th and 19th centuries were examples of transports that were armed and capable of fighting their way out of trouble. This tradition was continued by the fast transports of World War II that were converted from destroyer escorts for use in supporting amphibious operations and conducting small-scale raiding missions.

    The Flexible Support Ships of the Absalon class are worthy successors to this tradition. Essentially fast transports with the firepower and command capabilities of frigates, they have proved to be highly successful, well exceeding their design parameters during sea trials and subsequently serving with distinction in the anti-piracy campaign off Somalia. The three later members of the class have significantly greater combat capability yet retain much of the cargo-carrying capacity and flexibility of the two earlier ships. Overall, the Absalon class must be rated as highly successful designs that should be of great interest to other navies that have a wide range of operational commitments but limited funds.

    An interesting aspect to the Absalon class is their use of containerized weapons to ease fitting out. This was a key factor in bringing the class in on time and on budget since it allowed the installation of ship systems in phases. The achievement of full operational status may have been delayed, but both ships were available for limited operations in the meantime. The use of containerized weapons and systems is, of course, a key factor in the design of the U.S. Navy's Littoral Combat Ship and is suggested by proponents of those ships to be a revolutionary step forward. This approval is undoubtedly appreciated by the Danish Navy, which has been using the technique for more than 20 years.

    The question that remains is where the Absalon class will go from here. Currently there is discussion of building a third Flexible Support Ship, while another possibility is the construction of an ASW-oriented version of the basic design.:coffee:
     
  9. Penguin

    Penguin PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Actually, the patrol ships will have a lower profile than the Absalon class, having dispensed with the Absalon's internal vehicle deck...

    Standard-Flex containerized systems were first adopted in the Danish navy's SF-300 class attack craft, then in the SF-3000 Thetis class OPV and then in small mcm-craft, before being put to use in the Absalon class.

    @Mark: "The cost for all three frigates fitted with sensors and weapons (save Standard SM-2 air defence missiles) is given as 4.7 billion Kroner (Cdn $1B or about $333M per ship). The other European frigates mentioned range from $447M Cdn (for FREMM, French version) to $1.12B Cdn (for German Type 124 Sachsen class).
    Source: Danish Naval Projects - Patrol Frigate - Iver Huitfeld Class - Patrol Ship - Projekt Patruljeskib - NATO Comparisons - CASR - Canadian American Strategic Review - Danish Ships - Standard Flex - Frigate Project - Absalon Class - SCSC - Single Class -
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
  10. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    these are real great work horses to have at your side.
    with 6600ton of dispalcement, they carry a food weapon load and punch power.
    [​IMG]

    and by the look of design, one can easily tel that they are going to be stealthier as many RCS reduction features can be seen such as slanted bridge and main gun canopy, the radar tower etc
    [​IMG]

    i dont think it is something PN an get there hands on too so it may not be well suited in this section but boy it really is one hell of a machine!


    regards!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2013
  11. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    self deleted
     
  12. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    ypu are perhaps pointing to Knud Rasmussen class patrol vessels:what:
    A diplacment of 1700ton
     
  13. Penguin

    Penguin PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Oh, really? I think not.

    [​IMG]
    The first of the three frigates, F361 IVER HUITFELDT, is here seen under construction in Lindø's Dock 1 at the end of January 2009.
    (Photo: Danish Defense Acquisition and Logistics Organization)

    [​IMG]

    Danish Naval Projects - Patrol Frigate - Iver Huitfeld Class - Patrol Ship - Projekt Patruljeskib - NATO Comparisons - CASR - Canadian American Strategic Review - Danish Ships - Standard Flex - Frigate Project - Absalon Class - SCSC - Single Class -
    New Patrol Ships (2006)
    Frigate building in progress
    IVER HUITFELDT Class (2012- ), frigates
    Iver Huitfeldt - Ny stor fregat til SOK
    http://www.amiinter.com/samples/denmark/DA1501.html

    Type: Patruljeskib / Patrol Ship (frigate)
    Number of units: 3
    Years of Construction: 2007-2011

    Dimensions:
    Length: 138 m
    Beam: 20 m
    Draught: 6 m

    Displacement: 6,200 tons
    Complement: Around 100 men (accomodation for 160)

    Armament:
    1 - 127 mm Gun M/02
    1-2 - 76 mm Gun M/85
    1-2 - 35 mm Gun M/04 (CIWS)
    x - 12,7 mm Heavy Machine Guns
    16 - HARPOON SSM Block II
    24 - Evolved Sea Sparrow (ESSM) SAM's
    1 - Mk 41 Multi missile launcher with 32 cells for long range SAM's etc.
    2x2 - Stinger SAM Lv M/93
    2x2 - Anti Submarine Torpedo Launchers (MU-90)

    Speed: 28 knots
    Range: 9,000 nautical miles at 15 knots


    BY COMPARISON, THE RASMUSSEN:
    KNUD RASMUSSEN (2008- ), Offshore Patrol Vessel

    [​IMG]

    Offshore patrol vessel

    Built by: Karstensens Ship Yacht A/S, Skagen (The hull is built at the Polish Stocznia Pólnocna (Northern Shipyard) in Gdansk)
    Design: Karstensens Ship Yacht A/S in cooperation with the Danish Defense Acquisition and Logistics Organization

    Laid down: November 21, 2005
    Launched: October 19, 2006
    Commissioned: February 18, 2008
    Decommissioned: In service
    Pennant Number: P570
    Displacement: 1,720 tons

    Dimensions:
    Length: (LOA) 71.80 m (LWL) 61.00 m
    Beam: 14.60 m
    Draught: 4.95 m

    Complement: 18 men (lodging capacity for 43)

    Propulsion:
    2 ea B&W ALPHA 8L27/28 á 2.720 kW v/800 rpm
    1 ea Propeller (CP)
    RENK reduction gear "Twin in/single out"

    Range: 3,000 nautical miles

    Armament: 2 ea 12,7 mm Heavy Machine Guns M/01 LvSa
    The vessel has two flex container positions, one in the front and one in the aft, enabling it to carry a number of flexible systems, must of all one 76 mm Gun Mk M/85 LvSa on the foredeck.

    Additional space for: 1 ea SAR/Landing Crafts of the LCP Class

    Speed: 17 knots
     
  14. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    these are frigates bro, look at the displacement and weapon systems!
    what i posted was a patrol boat, refering to you earlier posts!!

    anyways,
    i dont undeerstand why it is being discussed in Pakistan Naval Warfare section as first thing?
    are we going for these, any news?

    regards!
     
  15. monitor

    monitor SENIOR MEMBER

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    so that you may go for this baby in near future .:)