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Featured 60 Aircraft To Participate in 'Shaheen X' Exercise Being Held in China

iLION12345_1

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60 aircraft! If it's held in China, then PAF can't send F-16, new J-10C not ready, so JF-17 and Mirage? Any chance seeing electronic jets, auxiliary jets or UAV? From PLAAF I hope this time they send some UAV, like GJ-11, WZ-7.

I believe 60 is the total number of aircraft participating, not the amount of aircraft being sent by PAF, still, it’s a massive number. JF-17 and mirages will almost definitely be there, maybe F7PG too, as PAF was still training with them actively. Apart from that, maybe ZDK-03/Erieye (will be interesting to see that with Chinese aircraft) and DA20 will be present. Interesting you bring up UAVs however, PAF has inducted a lot of Chinese UAVs, specially WL-1 and WL-2, they have to use them in exercises sooner or later, good opportunity now.
 

akramishaqkhan

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Which Mirage Squadrons are heading to China? That might give an indication of some down stream changes esp., with respect to BLK3 and potential J10CP inclusion. Also looks like coordination is being developed for coordinated ops, not just tactics. This is a big warning to India.
 

iLION12345_1

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No all these were all accounted for including the crashed once and the retired but they are reservers.. Honestly speaking haven't even thought nor does it mean anything noteworthy but we may have 50 more fighter jets than India this has never occured to me before until now.. The reason their numbers dropped to 610 is because they retired extremely old stuff which padded their numbers unnecessarily
Lmao. No. The number of mirages is very bloated, it doesn’t take into account crashes or cannibalized jets.
The “160” F7P figure is also extremely bloated even if we add in the Recently retired F7P (which FYI started going out of service over a decade ago, the originally retired ones likely aren’t even in storage anymore). Even the 60 F7PG figure is wrong as it doesn’t account for crashes, the real number is something like 48.
It’s also unlikely A5C are still in storage. So what exactly is this reserve you’re talking about and how is it useful if it’s ancient aircraft that are hazards to fly?

Only the F-16 and JF-17 figures are accurate (the ones on the left that is, as they’re the one taking into account crashes).

PAF doesn’t have enough squadrons for more than 420ish Jets. Wikipedia always has been and will be a terrible source as it can be edited by anyone and often uses news articles as sources (many being Indian or just simply outdated or in accurate for lack of a better source)

IAF Is definitely significantly larger than PAF, But they are much smaller than they should be given their threats and the size of their country. Unlike PAF, they have more than one front to cover.
Their total aircraft are 600+ without any reserves they’d have (which I don’t think they do either). You have to remember that IAF has 36-40 MiG-29s as well.
 

Shotgunner51

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I believe 60 is the total number of aircraft participating, not the amount of aircraft being sent by PAF, still, it’s a massive number. JF-17 and mirages will almost definitely be there, maybe F7PG too, as PAF was still training with them actively. Apart from that, maybe ZDK-03/Erieye (will be interesting to see that with Chinese aircraft) and DA20 will be present. Interesting you bring up UAVs however, PAF has inducted a lot of Chinese UAVs, specially WL-1 and WL-2, they have to use them in exercises sooner or later, good opportunity now.
Excellent! I guess this exercise may include SEAD, deep strikes and such missions. So other than jets or UAV, perhaps PLAAF might bring some SAM/AD like HQ-9B, HQ-16, S400 into the game serving as "blue team". How two forces increase interoperability is indeed interesting to see.
 

Dalit

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60 aircraft! If it's held in China, then PAF can't send F-16, new J-10C not ready, so JF-17 and Mirage? Any chance seeing electronic jets, auxiliary jets or UAV? From PLAAF I hope this time they send some UAV, like GJ-11, WZ-7.

That is a beauty. PLAAF has so much love for these birds.

View attachment 790940

China and Pakistan Air Forces are going to hold a large air warfare exercise, ''Shaheen X'' in the Second week of December.
The interoperability exercises will involve over 60 fighter aircraft training against a common target and will take place in China’s western theatre command.
Amazing. 60 fighters is huge.
 

Shotgunner51

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That is a beauty. PLAAF has so much love for these birds.
Yes it's a looker! PLAAF loves it so much, the single hi-thrust config perhaps is the best fit for workhorse. The jet has excellent low-altitude maneuverability, in PLAAF doctrine they can carry out low-altitude penetration missions, especially in mountain terrains where LO is of lesser importance, moreover lack of LO can be compensated by active electronic suppression (from peer EW jets) which seems like is becoming central to PLAAF doctrine.
 

Shotgunner51

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Amazing. 60 fighters is huge.
Bro likely it's just a start, larger formations are needed for future missions! PLAAF and PAF combined has a huge variety of tactical/strategic assets for use, if you count in other military branches (PLARF, PLASSF, PA, ISI, ...) required to support/participate in certain mission then it's really complex, formations can't be small. We do have very challenging missions lying ahead of us, more than just overwhelming enemy airforce but a lot of SEAD, deep/precision strikes on enemy HVT from nuke assets to satcom/comms. I guess PLA Western Theater Command has a lot game plans devised by now, hope PAF and PLAAF as well as other branches can boost interoperability asap so when missions are given they can get them done.
 
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Bossman

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I remember when the Shaheen series started Indians on this thread tried to underplay the involvement of PLAAF by the say that only a couple of their jets participated. With 60 planes involved, it shows how important this exercise has become for both the Chinese and Pakistan. Sixty planes are enough to support combined operations in Ladakh and JK in a real war senario.
 

iLION12345_1

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some sides are claiming 450 in service but the most accurate is the wikipedia after doing some heavy research..

Also your reasoning is not realistic example PAF has 60 of it's 186 F-7 are you telling me that 127 just vanished without a trace? There is 53 Mirage 5 in service out of 139 so you are saying nearly 100 just vanished or cannibalized?` The same with Mirage 3 69 in service out of 135 are you telling me 65 Mirage 3 just vanished to nowhere? All of them were introduced post war and Pak has not been in war for over half a century. It doesn't add up your theory. These are reservers as mentioned..

Also always make sure to follow the source because nobody would update anything randomly on wiki without providing atleast 2 sources with it.. Follow the source instead of resorting to guessing.. These aircrafts are in inventory just not in service but 447 are in service to be exact but the remaining 200+ are safe in inventory and stored
Sure, a couple dozen are parked behind my house too.
 

iLION12345_1

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But why would Pakistan want to have nearly 700 fighter jets in service that is to much to operate and maintain.. Even the US has plenty stored that may never be used the current 450 is also a bit on the to much end a max 350 in service is suitable.. Guessing doesn't lead anywhere I know catching you in the act didn't unfold well for you... Fact checking always comes on any level of normal convo
Quire the contrary, I just realized it was pointless to argue with people who have little to no knowledge of the matter at hand and think of Wikipedia as an actual source, the fact that you think you “caught me” or something is utterly hilarious to me.

So let’s count:
PAF has:
75 F-16s active, 0 in reserve. (85 total delivered, 10 crashed)
134 JF-17s, 0 in reserve (138 delivered, 4 crashed).
48 F7PGs, 0 in reserve (60 delivered, 12 crashed).

0 F7Ps (all retired), most likely 0 in reserve, or at most 1-2 squadrons that were last retired. It’s costly to keep aircraft in reserve, and makes no sense given they’re obsolete coffins that will be safety hazards to fly. Especially considering the first squadrons retired years ago.
Where are all of the retired ones? Scrapped, cannibalized, turned into monuments, etc. and that’s apart from all the crashes.

Mirages are a little trickier, PAF got somewhere between 250-270 mirages in total (Wikipedia says 274, from what I can gather, it’s closer to 245), I’m not sure how many have crashed, but I’ll take a safe estimate and go 30-40 have crashed. 63 were reduced to spares on delivery. Something like 60-70 were upgraded to ROSE. I don’t recall any being retired, so none in reserve.

A5C is the only other one that people think might be in reserve, but I can say without doubt they’re not, given it’s been over a decade since they were retired.

even going by the safest of estimates and saying we have about 175 mirages in service, that’s about 430 total aircraft which is exactly what I said…but hey, I was just guessing right? So where are your hundreds of reserves? And even if they somehow magically exist, what use are they given their age, they’d be more dangerous to our own pilots than the enemies.

PAF does have some old aircraft lying around at airbases, but they’re in derelict condition, they’re just kept there for lack of a place to put them, they’re not reserves or a mothballed fleet like the US’ meticulously preserved fleet. We don’t have the funds or the aircraft for that.
F9E86C47-C7B3-4A2B-AAA5-A4D736C2B646.jpeg
 
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iLION12345_1

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You are being very conversative here my mann to save some face.. There is no reports of F-7 ever being retired? Which makes everything tricker.. That could put us upto 616.. from 430 (Which in it itself is heavily low-balled for a narrative sake here but lets go with that even tho the real in service number is 447 but lets entertain that for a second okay. 430+ 186F-7 that puts us to 616? There has been no intial report of F7 ever being retired. Another thing is that you overestimated the crashed on Mirages throwing in as much 40 for good sake measure for narrative manipulation attempt but but I ain't bitting the realistic numbers would be around 20. If you leave the F-7 out of the picture we end at our correct number and the official in service number which is 450 but the big question is are the F-7 retired? I have not seen any news on them? being retired
What do you mean F7s haven’t been retired? Have you ever followed PAF news? What do you think all the Jf-17s replaced? You’re way worst than I thought.

The last F7Ps were retired In 2020 from CCS. They’re all gone, every single one. This is extremely common knowledge, I’m sorry but I almost died of laughter here. Just how many squadrons do You think PAF has?

And my mirage crashes are accurate too, they’ve been flying since 1968, there’s definitely been more than 30, they’re listed in the mirage Thread.

For the love of god, please do some basic research, 430 is not a lowballed figure, it’s the highest possible one I could come up with, the reality is likely slightly lower.
 

Battlion25

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What do you mean F7s haven’t been retired? Have you ever followed PAF news? What do you think all the Jf-17s replaced? You’re way worst than I thought.

The last F7Ps were retired In 2020 from CCS. They’re all gone, every single one. This is extremely common knowledge, I’m sorry but I almost died of laughter here. Just how many squadrons do You think PAF has?

And my mirage crashes are accurate too, they’ve been flying since 1968, there’s definitely been more than 30, they’re listed in the mirage Thread.

For the love of god, please do some basic research, 430 is not a lowballed figure, it’s the highest possible one I could come up with, the reality is likely slightly lower.
I stand corrected... On the F-7 it seems like as per sources F-7 is officially retired in 2020 none of them are in service.. I admit the F7 messed up my initial calculated numbers because they are technically retired 2 years ago but I was not wrong either in my calculation and tracking down the sources the only missing link was the F7 being retired which didn't come up on my sources..

As per source
 

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