• Friday, December 6, 2019

4- Type 054 Frigates from China, Pakistan's next Goal

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by AZADPAKISTAN2009, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    BBC News - US to announce major military aid package for Pakistan

    US to give Pakistan Military 2 Billion dollars
    21 October 2010
    $2,000,000,000

    Since 2005, Pakistan has received more than $1bn (£636.4m) of military aid a year from the US - and received close to $2bn for the last fiscal year.Comments taken out from the document lol

    I realy doubt we need soft loans but friends offer softloans to friends as well

    2005 , 1 billion
    2006 , 1 billion
    2007 , 1 billion
    2008 , 1 billion
    2009 , 1 billion
    2010 , 1 billion

    :devil:So who is buying the destroyer and frigates and more frigate :devil:

    This is on top of what we got from IMF , and other civilian packages :smitten:

    The new five-year security assistance package, expected to be announced on Friday, is meant to complement a $7.5bn package of civilian aid over five years that was approved by the US in 2009.

    Meaning

    Clinton announced 2 billion dollar package and !!!! AND ... we get new aid package for 5 more years

    2011 (Clinton Recommended a new package)
    2012 (Clinton Recommended a new package)
    2013 (Clinton Recommended a new package)
    2014 (Clinton Recommended a new package)
    2015 (Clinton Recommended a new package)



    [​IMG]

    Lets not forget we have a 100-300 billion dollar economy too ... lets not count oursleves as no body if there was no war we would have got at least 100 billion from our economy and tourism


    And in case you missed Chinese Leader also closed deals for up to 30 billion dollars with Pakistan

    So ... ehm cough cough money is not our concern
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010
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  2. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    U.S. seeks $2 billion in military aid for Pakistan
    U.S. seeks $2 billion in military aid for Pakistan | Reuters

    By Andrew Quinn and David Alexander
    WASHINGTON | Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:02am BST

    (Reuters) - The United States announced $2 billion (1.3 billion pounds) in military aid for Pakistan on Friday as the two countries sought to dispel doubts about Islamabad's commitment to uprooting Islamist insurgents from safe havens on its soil.

    "The United States has no stronger partner when it comes to counterterrorism efforts against the extremists who threaten us both than Pakistan," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in announcing plans to ask Congress for another five-year aid package.
    The military aid, which would help put Pakistan's war planning on a more stable footing, would complement a $7.5 billion multiyear package of civilian assistance already cleared by U.S. lawmakers.
    Clinton said the administration would also ask for $27 million to fund military education and training in Pakistan, one of the largest recipients of U.S. foreign military aid after Israel and Egypt


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010
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  3. Penguin

    Penguin ELITE MEMBER

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    AFAIK, there is no Chinese ship designated Type 084B, the ship pictures is a Type 054A

    The UK ship depicted is a Type 45 ( = new, latest ), not a Type 42 (used)

    The article speaks of ships from China, UK and France (it mentions neither USA - OHP/FFG7 - nor Turkey - Milgem)
     
  4. Penguin

    Penguin ELITE MEMBER

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    There is no such chinese ship as a Type 053B and I'm not aware that UK has actually sold Pakistan decommissioned Type-42s or will do so in the the foreseeable future.

    Assuming the ships decommed this and last year would end up in PN service, they are - as all Type 42s in UK - without AShMs. There are no non-UK operators of Sea Dart, except for ARA (Argentine navy ;-)

    While 6 were requested , it remains to be seen how many OHPs will end up in PN and when, as there are few currently decommissining (3, of which 1 will be a spares hulk) and there are other takers (Taiwan, seeking to replace its even older ex-US Knox frigates)
     
  5. Penguin

    Penguin ELITE MEMBER

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    1. Why are you getting aid in the first place? Because you're so rich? Why has PN consistantly acquired used ships from foreign sources?
    2. You suppose that aid money is not earmarked for certain things, and comes without any strings attached? You seriously think you can just use a few billion for buying ships and subs?
     
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  6. Penguin

    Penguin ELITE MEMBER

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    If any of this money is spent on ships at all, it will be on inshore patrol vessels. Like the five fast patrol boats it received from the US in February 2010, for the use of Pakistan's Maritime Security Agency.

    Besides, has it occurred to you that these announcement might (at least in part) refer to the aid package's worth rather than the transfer of a certain amount of funds? The fact that aid COSTS the US a certain amount doesn't necessarily mean that Pakistan receives that amount as funding.
     
  7. ANG

    ANG FULL MEMBER

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    Hi, what I find the saddest part is how it is mentioned Pakistan receives this amount of aid and it is actually factored into decision making. The current Pakistani government (and I stress government) is nothing but a bunch of beggars, and with their begging attitude, they will never be able to pay for any large purchase. I still believe the PN simply cannot pay for these ships whether Chinese or Western, as they do not have the funds. Take care.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2010
  8. Jigs

    Jigs ELITE MEMBER

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    If Pakistan like you say is getting billions in military aid why are they buying 30 year old OHPs from the U.S. ? Not to mention still operating type 21s that are almost 40 years old now. Let us be realistic in military procurements. People here speculate on way too much before stuff is even signed or deals are even mentioned. It leads to misinformation after a while.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2010
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  9. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    Well the (military) aid money is not for charity , the civilian aid is seperate

    The aid money is our DUES because we lost 100 billion dollar over the last 10 years

    If there was no war in our backyard , we would make 100-150 billion dollars on our own

    So if our allies want to offer their condolences and make up for things they are trying to assit us

    Which is why US has offered us the OHP , frigates which is understandable as we share a past history with Americans countries always help each other out. So that is why we have understanding for 6 frigates with US to help develop cooperation in marinetime operations against piracy and terrorist using waters to smuggle weapons, Also that is reward for our participation in war on terror initiative.


    The money for military is just a commitment from US that look we will not make same mistake as it was done in 1990's when Pakistan was left along so they are helping us , with Financial Aid package to help develop the armed units and apologize for 1990's


    The reason of post is not to undermine US , we appreciate the OHP greatly it will be a integral part of our operations but at same time our Navy has needs

    So we need

    3 destroyers from UK
    4 Type 054 from China
    And US is giving us 6 OHP as part of our cooperation


    Remember guys , we lost 100 billion in war on terror so if we got back
    10-15 billion dollars its the least US can do to help us out for being there in time of need.

    As for China they are our GREAT NEIGHBOUR and great FRIENDLY nation so obviously we and China are very close BROTHERS ....we are like Canada and China is like US two neighbouring countries with great ties


    The OHP is a capable ship it will be one of largest ships in Pakistan Navy and it gives us good learning ability to use and learn

    We really do need 15 ships and this is a start :azn:

    Thats all it is ... OHP meets our requirements , with refurbishment and we are also investing in newer stealthy Chinese ships so we cover both our bases - new and capable current models

    We are getting OHP because its our due for investing great financial and human losses suffered by our nation. And its a good deal 75 million was it ? Its almost free which is great start

    The articles state the figures very clearly since 2005 we were given 1 billion annually by US for our military !!!

    And recently we got another 2 billion and discussions for on going 5 year post war support guarentee 5 billion

    OHP is not a junk ship its a current model can serve a navy for 15 years specially with Genesis upgrading

    Pakistan maintains its military and civilian aid projects different
    so not to be confused

    And if some one asks so why we need aid simple ? we have a war in our back yard since 1970 , and actually we should get 3 billion / year for losses our econommy suffered due to these illegal wars but since we have a understanding we have not complained about 1 billion / year deal

    So I think we are in good shape to get

    4 Type 054 , 4000 tones from china as mentioned in article May be 1.5 billion with discounts
    3 UK destroyers when they retire in few years (May be 1 billion here for 3 ships)6 OHP which might just retire some of our ageing ships frist (come cheap 75 million only)

    Plus the Submarine deals we have with China for 7 submarines (With soft loans)

    So we still have about 12-15 billion in reserves in pipeline for our military aid

    We still need 1-2 billion for J1OB 100 planes so that fund would come handy for it
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2010
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  10. muse

    muse PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Please do make an attempt to make sense - no one owes Pakistan for the losses Pakistan has incurred.

    Perhaps instead of focusing on what Pakistan's economy and infrastructure has suffered, we should focus on how Pakistani politicians have failed to grow the economy, but have succeeded in growing their personal fortunes.

    A mentality which insists that the world owes Pakistan a living, is one which is fundamentally flawed and at odds with reality.
     
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  11. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

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    Its moral obligation and this is why US is funding the security package and its right thing to do ... THE MORAL right thing

    US made a tactical mistake when in 90's they left and which left a vaccume , a political vaccume which got filled by extremist

    So now US is doing the correct thing funding Pakistan so we can upgrade our capabilities to tackle terror in all forms

    And to be honest I think its a the right direction

    The Turkamanistan - Pakistan deals are in the right direction its good for our economy , and we don't want terrorist in Afghanistan it hurts our economy

    It would be best if we can also get our 80 billion loans forgiven for losses to our economy , we have been a good friend in need

    I mean who would accept war on their borders if it was not for extraordinary close understanding between US and Pakistan.

    I fully agree our politicians are currupt but , when terrorist are blowing bombs inside country then economy suffers

    The 6 OHP frigates are step in right direction and they also offered us a destroyer so we should accept these from US and help end terror in Afghanistan by setting up a permenent base in Afghanistan

    The Turkamanistan - Pakistan gas deal will help fuel economy and also the iran pakistan gas pipeline will help provide energy all the way to china

    Really what is needed is that Pakistan is fully supported in the time of need - and let the 90's never be repeated again

    I know some would compare Pakistan - China closeness to Pakistan -US but the history is different China is a trade country , US is more of world police so its different relation between nations... boy oh boy I sound like a politicians any one need a diplomat up in washington I will get you F22 raptors
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2010
  12. Aamir Hussain

    Aamir Hussain PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    This thinking that the World "Owes us" is turning us into beggars!!! This is serious stuff my friend. I like you but you need to seriously do a rethink on where you are coming with this "The World Owes Us" bit.

    Get it through your head -- we did this to ourselves -- no one pushed us to do what we have been doing since 1953. All our leaders have been peddling Pakistan as Army for hire since the very early years of Pakistan, till today.

    On your accounting of the money sent by ex-pat Pakistani's - they are not sent to GoP -- in-fact GoP owes this money in Rupees to its citizens.

    If you really want to have a logical and informed discussion then do read Shuja Nawaz's Crossed Swords to read about our early efforts to engage US and do pay attention to sometime self defeating rantings of General Hameed Gul-- he will tell you that we were the ones and not the US who put our foot squarely in Afghanistan turmoil first and dragged everyone else in. Do read books written by some of our brilliant ambassadors etc. Learn to understand that the Afghan victory was a defeat before the "Stinger" and the immense material and moral support of the rest of the world happened. We just organized the circus/party. Whatever we did afterwards was our own "Empire " building effort -- which we screwed up big time.

    Read and learn my friend --you have the fire and the passion to be fiercely Pakistani -- be an informed Pakistani -- we need a lot more of these than just Pakistanis'. Pakistan Zindabad!
     
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  13. truthseeker2010

    truthseeker2010 SENIOR MEMBER

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    good dreaming.... you forgot the other share of other two in this cake.
     
  14. Mani2020

    Mani2020 SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think everyone here knows it that AzadPakistan is always been blinded by sheer optimism and blind patriotism ,his every post will speak for it .from day one till today he has just made a wishlist without being rational .so nobody can blame him or bash him as this is what he is doing from day1 till today and got a senior rank
     
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  15. IamINDIA

    IamINDIA FULL MEMBER

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    lol dude i appreciate your optimism......but there is a serious flaw ,the loss of 100-150billion dollars was is in civilian,infratructure and other things.

    there wasn't like a magic bunker with 100-150bilion dollars in hard cash that got blown up by the taliban:cheesy: