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4 Soldiers Martyred while 2 terrorists killed & 1 arrested in Tank , KP , Pakistan - Dec 2021 .

Areesh

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I always read your comments and try to hold back from commenting .
But do you really have any clue about the complex nature of politics and warfare in this area. You talk like a great general in waiting and I bet the minute you hear gunfire you would pee in your pants.

There is no homogenousTTP orTalibans operating. They are different from area to area and from village to village. All this talk about Talibans under control is a complete hogwash. They don’t have the resources (money) to control these hired militias.

you blaming Bajwa and generals for every ambush is childish and lacks even basic common sense .

You guys simply lack the ability to accept ground realities. You just want to continue with the same old BS of martyrdom to hide incompetency of Pakistani state and its institutions in winning wars decisively against these insurgencies. Pakistani military counter insurgency abilities have a big question mark over them when they have failed to defeat TTP or BLA even after years of fighting and deaths of thousands of Pakistani soldiers

Both BLA and TTP are thriving right now inflicting casualties daily with no end in sight. And after that you don't want to have dialogue with them because your monkey as$ ego can't accept hard facts

There is clearly issues with Pakistani counter insurgency policy that needs to be rectified instead of giving lame excuses like you have given
These insurgents aren't really achieving much anyways by killing security forces, they have been doing this for god knows how long now. My problem is why the generals are making the blood of their security forces so cheap?

That is exactly the issue. Till when we would continue to bleed in this nonsensical war? America has left the region. Ashraf Ghani is gone but nothing much has changed for Pakistan as far its war against militancy is concerned

Some serious debate needs to be done on this issue but Pakistani state is more interested in sending free wheat to Afghanistan while wheat prices continue to rise in Pakistan for Pakistanis
 

Flight of falcon

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You guys simply lack the ability to accept ground realities. You just want to continue with the same old BS of martyrdom to hide incompetency of Pakistani state and its institutions in winning wars decisively against these insurgencies. Pakistani military counter insurgency abilities have a big question mark over them when they have failed to defeat TTP or BLA even after years of fighting and deaths of thousands of Pakistani soldiers

Both BLA and TTP are thriving right now inflicting casualties daily with no end in sight. And after that you don't want to have dialogue with them because your monkey as$ ego can't accept hard facts

There is clearly issues with Pakistani counter insurgency policy that needs to be rectified instead of giving lame excuses like you have given


That is exactly the issue. Till when we would continue to bleed in this nonsensical war? America has left the region. Ashraf Ghani is gone but nothing much has changed for Pakistan as far its war against militancy is concerned

Some serious debate needs to be done on this issue but Pakistani state is more interested in sending free wheat to Afghanistan while wheat prices continue to rise in Pakistan for Pakistanis

We can always do better no doubt. We can always equip them better … absolutely.
But no army can ever win a guerrilla war no matter how much fire power, equipment and resources they get. At the end of the day we have to accept humble pie and sit down and negotiate ….

did USA/NATO win in Afghanistan?
Saudis in Yemen ?
Israelis in Gaza?
Americans in Vietnam?

No standing army have ever won a single gurilla war ….. name one power that ever did.
It is flat out retardant behaviour to blame the generals when I am sure they don’t want to see their soldiers die needlessly.

you harping 24/7 against the entire leadership of our army plays right in the hands of anti Pakistan narrative.

As they say for every attack that is successful there are 10 they managed to spoil.
unfortynately given the terrain, politics, culture and poverty there is no solution in sight anytime soon.
 

Areesh

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We can always do better no doubt. We can always equip them better … absolutely.
But no army can ever win a guerrilla war no matter how much fire power, equipment and resources they get. At the end of the day we have to accept humble pie and sit down and negotiate ….

did USA/NATO win in Afghanistan?
Saudis in Yemen ?
Israelis in Gaza?
Americans in Vietnam?

No standing army have ever won a single gurilla war ….. name one power that ever did.
It is flat out retardant behaviour to blame the generals when I am sure they don’t want to see their soldiers die needlessly.

you harping 24/7 against the entire leadership of our army plays right in the hands of anti Pakistan narrative.

As they say for every attack that is successful there are 10 they managed to spoil.
unfortynately given the terrain, politics, culture and poverty there is no solution in sight anytime soon.

Armies have won gorilla wars or at least done much better than what we are doing after fighting this war for 15 years

All the examples that you shared are foreign forces invading a piece of land which isn't the case with Pakistan army that is fighting in its country

Pakistani military establishment should be criticized and should be taken to task for it continuous failure to overcome these insurgencies even after 15 years of war. There is no excuse good enough to hide this failure and Pakistan can't continue to lose its soldiers in this manner in this never ending war. Pakistani military leadership needs to wake up and do something to end this war

Clearly they are clueless right now
 

Battlion25

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Meanwhile Pakistan is sending 28.5 million USD wheat to the people

Don't mix water and milk here and assume we are gonna get confused by it.. IEA has said million times they would start military operation against them if they don't stop and they have zero fuks to do with each other.. You will have to deal with them and they are entirely homegrown tribesmen in the mountains
 

Flight of falcon

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Armies have won gorilla wars or at least done much better than what we are doing after fighting this war for 15 years

All the examples that you shared are foreign forces invading a piece of land which isn't the case with Pakistan army that is fighting in its country

Pakistani military establishment should be criticized and should be taken to task for it continuous failure to overcome these insurgencies even after 15 years of war. There is no excuse good enough to hide this failure and Pakistan can't continue to lose its soldiers in this manner in this never ending war. Pakistani military leadership needs to wake up and do something to end this war

Clearly they are clueless right now

Please name any country where the armies “crushed “ local insurgencies.

Hell ever ruthless countries like India and Iran are not able to contain home grown insurgencies.

As I said earlier we cannot carpet bomb our own people to flush out few rats hiding between them. It is a complex multidimensional problem. Only few years back people in Karachi could hire a hit man for 10000 Rs. Today it’s rare if ever happening . Our same generals and troops did a splendid job in decimating entire foreign funded PPP/MQM supported network of terrorists . It happens because it was urban area and easy to find and eliminate terrorists hiding in a built up area. 1000s of km of desolate mountains and valleys of Balochistan are just a total different ball game. So are terrorists running across into Afghanistan.

Having some relationship with Taliban regime is better than keeping no or bad relationship. Within Talibans there are group against Pakistan. Many of their foot soldiers are former afghan army turncoats and they still hate Pakistan. They don’t need a permission to shoot at Pakistanis from Kabul. Anyone can pay them few dollars and they will be happy to attack. They need to eat and to these animals it doesn’t matter where and how the food comes from.

we have every right to criticize our generals and demand better. But openly calling your army chief names and humiliating him in the forums is by no mean shows your love for the country or institutes.
 

Battlion25

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Many of their foot soldiers are former afghan army turncoats

The idea itself is so feral and so outdated? That is such a yesterdays news and old-school stuff. The Question is why assume hate in the first place? IEA is not a nationalistic secular element like the previous governments hence they will always be lenient towards Pakistan and share some camaraderie the secular didn't have because it just wasn't within them but the none-secular just sees your azz as another islamic civilization across the border and by all means fraternal brother they have seen and hosted hundred of thousands of Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis etc etc come across the border to join them or aid them in both their wars hence they technically don't view the Pakistanis as foreign element compared to the former secularists... They are more globalists hence there is leniency and don't technically view the PK individuals as foreign elements example look at the freedom PK media enjoys there and there freedom of movement in AFG they attend all press-conference go to all places unhindered and the same with Pakistani individuals touring there etc etc
 
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Areesh

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Please name any country where the armies “crushed “ local insurgencies.

Hell ever ruthless countries like India and Iran are not able to contain home grown insurgencies.

As I said earlier we cannot carpet bomb our own people to flush out few rats hiding between them. It is a complex multidimensional problem. Only few years back people in Karachi could hire a hit man for 10000 Rs. Today it’s rare if ever happening . Our same generals and troops did a splendid job in decimating entire foreign funded PPP/MQM supported network of terrorists . It happens because it was urban area and easy to find and eliminate terrorists hiding in a built up area. 1000s of km of desolate mountains and valleys of Balochistan are just a total different ball game. So are terrorists running across into Afghanistan.

Having some relationship with Taliban regime is better than keeping no or bad relationship. Within Talibans there are group against Pakistan. Many of their foot soldiers are former afghan army turncoats and they still hate Pakistan. They don’t need a permission to shoot at Pakistanis from Kabul. Anyone can pay them few dollars and they will be happy to attack. They need to eat and to these animals it doesn’t matter where and how the food comes from.

we have every right to criticize our generals and demand better. But openly calling your army chief names and humiliating him in the forums is by no mean shows your love for the country or institutes.

India successfully crushed Kashmiri and Sikh militancy
Srilanka successfully crushed LTTE militancy
Iran successfully crushed Baloch and Kurd militancy

Pak army leadership has totally failed in Waziristan and Balochistan. Their only policy is getting soldiers killed and hoping things would improve somehow. General bajwa who never deserved to get extension failed to bring this war anywhere near to its end

You can defend these guys all you want to but that is no patriotism. Your definition of patriotism is stupid and childish
IEA has said million times they would start military operation against them if they don't stop

IEA isn't going to do anything like that
 

Battlion25

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India successfully crushed Kashmiri and Sikh militancy
Srilanka successfully crushed LTTE militancy
Iran successfully crushed Baloch and Kurd militancy

Pak army leadership has totally failed in Waziristan and Balochistan. Their only policy is getting soldiers killed and hoping things would improve somehow. General bajwa who never deserved to get extension failed to bring this war anywhere near to its end

You can defend these guys all you want to but that is no patriotism. Your definition of patriotism is stupid and childish

They did not crush militancy except only Sri Lanka managed to do that but that was decades ago..

Just 2 days ago several Iranian forces were martyred inside Iran and if you go back a week 11 Indians were martyred so no...
 

Areesh

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They did not crush militancy except only Sri Lanka managed to do that but that was decades ago..

Just 2 days ago several Iranian forces were martyred inside Iran and if you go back a week 11 Indians were martyred so no...

What 11 Indians were martyred???

Indian army is having the best time of its life in IOK right now

Same with Iran who are in much control of their insurgencies unlike Pakistan who are getting its soldiers killed daily
 

Darth Vader

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They are happy on the sacrifices of poor soldiers while sitting in US UK with there kids , they want pak army to keep fighting, these scumbags don’t know any country on this earth has the capability to fight gorilla wars , just look at the US NATO how they been defeated by handful talibans in Afghanistan


Wait aren't those the same people who are sending remittance to Pakistan every year which is going higher & higher

Pakistan gets record $8bn remittances in July-Sept

Few million
200 Million

So lets not go into blame game.

Now if you look at the chest-thumping going on Pakistan has already won against TTP and everyone. So if All these areas are cleared out why there is a need for Talks. The majority of the area was cleared out by it left a very big hole at the economical level for people moving back, Do you know how TTP started just a gang of criminals if a state with 700K standing soldiers with advanced enough weapon systems cant defeat a rag-tag militia group than there is something wrong somewhere with system and the military itself.
If they cant defeat these groups how will they defeat Indian? isn't that a reasonable question to ask?

The NATO US couldn't defeat a handful of Taliban do any one of us actually know what were the goals? If Ttrillions were invested in Afghanistan where did that money go? back to contracts ( Companies ) in the US so its really hard to sort compare. The Whole system was built with corruption in mind so let's not compare, Also Pakistan is fighting internal enemies & few sitting right next door, Not on the other side of the globe for someone else.
These things directly affect Pakistan daily. Uncle Sam can still drone daily whoever they want in Afghanistan and no one will be able to jack about it.


Let's say if Magically Pakistan eliminates all members of TTP clear outs all other religious groups, & somehow have a real peaceful resolution with India in regards to Kashmir what will happen to all the funding which goes to the Military? No funding means what? less new weapons system will have to lower the numbers of active troops list goes on and own.

Pakistan has been at war with these groups directly or indirectly for decades this is not something new. But why you haven't seen any changes in being implemented by the state to fix this problem, limiting who can acquire weapons in Pakistan, going against the supplier's dealer, Why Because these groups are barging chips for people in power, politicians & military top brass.

No one has any issues with Jawans are who are scarifisng life for the safety of others Problem lies with Generals are busy filling pockets for themselves

mind answering one thing if expats don't have the right to say anything than WHY CHILDERN OF THESE GENERALS & POLTICIANS LIVE OUTSIDE OF PAKISTAN ?
 

ziaulislam

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This was the reason I was in support of dialogue with TTP

Our forces have clearly failed to curb TTP in Waziristan or to lower own casualties while raising cost for the enemy

In such a situation dialogue was the only option left to bring somewhat pause to daily deaths of soldiers. This was too most probably a successful ambush by TTP on some checkpost or convoy

But PDF members get their chaddis in a twist whenever dialogue with TTP was mentioned

What part of "if you can't beat them join them" PDF members don't understand?
Because pdf memebers havent seen tve carange in KPK
Which they can do again

The only way TTP can end if thr leadership is taken out in afghanistan

That we wont do..
Unless military is has free hand to hit in afgahnistan pakistan will have to talk or FC will remain a cannon fodder
 

ziaulislam

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Wait aren't those the same people who are sending remittance to Pakistan every year which is going higher & higher

Pakistan gets record $8bn remittances in July-Sept

Few million
200 Million

So lets not go into blame game.

Now if you look at the chest-thumping going on Pakistan has already won against TTP and everyone. So if All these areas are cleared out why there is a need for Talks. The majority of the area was cleared out by it left a very big hole at the economical level for people moving back, Do you know how TTP started just a gang of criminals if a state with 700K standing soldiers with advanced enough weapon systems cant defeat a rag-tag militia group than there is something wrong somewhere with system and the military itself.
If they cant defeat these groups how will they defeat Indian? isn't that a reasonable question to ask?

The NATO US couldn't defeat a handful of Taliban do any one of us actually know what were the goals? If Ttrillions were invested in Afghanistan where did that money go? back to contracts ( Companies ) in the US so its really hard to sort compare. The Whole system was built with corruption in mind so let's not compare, Also Pakistan is fighting internal enemies & few sitting right next door, Not on the other side of the globe for someone else.
These things directly affect Pakistan daily. Uncle Sam can still drone daily whoever they want in Afghanistan and no one will be able to jack about it.


Let's say if Magically Pakistan eliminates all members of TTP clear outs all other religious groups, & somehow have a real peaceful resolution with India in regards to Kashmir what will happen to all the funding which goes to the Military? No funding means what? less new weapons system will have to lower the numbers of active troops list goes on and own.

Pakistan has been at war with these groups directly or indirectly for decades this is not something new. But why you haven't seen any changes in being implemented by the state to fix this problem, limiting who can acquire weapons in Pakistan, going against the supplier's dealer, Why Because these groups are barging chips for people in power, politicians & military top brass.

No one has any issues with Jawans are who are scarifisng life for the safety of others Problem lies with Generals are busy filling pockets for themselves

mind answering one thing if expats don't have the right to say anything than WHY CHILDERN OF THESE GENERALS & POLTICIANS LIVE OUTSIDE OF PAKISTAN ?
Afghanistan isnt cleared

In gorilla war its about taking out the leader ship
Foot soldiers dont matter

As long as leader ship can plan attacks and have finances in afghanistan nothing can be done
So we have basically two option
1- take the infratruture & leadership out
2- talk to them and divide them/take lesdership out via talks
You guys simply lack the ability to accept ground realities. You just want to continue with the same old BS of martyrdom to hide incompetency of Pakistani state and its institutions in winning wars decisively against these insurgencies. Pakistani military counter insurgency abilities have a big question mark over them when they have failed to defeat TTP or BLA even after years of fighting and deaths of thousands of Pakistani soldiers

Both BLA and TTP are thriving right now inflicting casualties daily with no end in sight. And after that you don't want to have dialogue with them because your monkey as$ ego can't accept hard facts

There is clearly issues with Pakistani counter insurgency policy that needs to be rectified instead of giving lame excuses like you have given


That is exactly the issue. Till when we would continue to bleed in this nonsensical war? America has left the region. Ashraf Ghani is gone but nothing much has changed for Pakistan as far its war against militancy is concerned

Some serious debate needs to be done on this issue but Pakistani state is more interested in sending free wheat to Afghanistan while wheat prices continue to rise in Pakistan for Pakistanis
Pakistan inability to operate openly in afghanistan after USA leaving is very large concern

Now we should have been able to act whenever we would liked

The fact that we can act on legitamte targets is ofconcern
 

Flight of falcon

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What 11 Indians were martyred???

Indian army is having the best time of its life in IOK right now

Same with Iran who are in much control of their insurgencies unlike Pakistan who are getting its soldiers killed daily


SriLanka simply massacred Tamils and problem solved . We cannot do the same . It will flame the insurgency not kill it.
By the way LTTE is very much alive and ready to regroup.

India defeated Kashmiris ??? Yet again you toe enemy’s line .


Sikh insurgency is not dead at all.
You don’t get my point. Even Americans refrained from carpet bombing villages to kill insurgents. Srilankans had no problem doing it.

My point was that no army has ever managed to defeat insurgency in face to face war. Eradicating the entire population like StiLanka is not an option.

Sikh insurgency never ended …. In the end it was a political compromise that made them go underground and lay down their arms and that’s exactly what I am advocating .
 

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