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27th Feb | Celebrating Swift Retort Day || Unveiling the JF-17 thunder Block 3 of PAF || PTV World .

The Eagle

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I haven't heard this one, however the real RT was a bit different.

Sir, you are the champ and you are everywhere busy with stuff and having access. I am just another ordinary civilian. :-)

I was actually talking about particular "Gambler1" thing which was audible in one of the Operation Swift Retort documentary.
 

PanzerKiel

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Sir, you are the champ and you are everywhere busy with stuff and having access. I am just another ordinary civilian. :-)

I was actually talking about particular "Gambler1" thing which was audible in one of the Operation Swift Retort documentary.
Oh Acha, a documentary...... When you have the actual radar picture to see, participating pilots to speak to, and real RT to boot..... Who asks for a documentary....?

Time stamped
I just saw it..., yes, the gambler call is the real one.
 

The Eagle

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Oh Acha, a documentary...... When you have the actual radar picture to see, participating pilots to speak to, and real RT to boot..... Who asks for a documentary....?

You can joke about it Sir having all access. Me ghareeb has all that to know about.
آپ مذاق نہیں اڑائیں گے تو اور کون ایسا کرے گا بھلا :lol:
 

PanzerKiel

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You can joke about it Sir having all access. Me ghareeb has all that to know about.
آپ مذاق نہیں اڑائیں گے تو اور کون ایسا کرے گا بھلا :lol:
Not at all dear, everyone of us, including you, are experts of our respective professions. We just need to recognize that, and respect different opinions. It leads to a healthy and constructive debate.
 

PanzerKiel

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Sir, you are the champ and you are everywhere busy with stuff and having access. I am just another ordinary civilian. :-)

I was actually talking about particular "Gambler1" thing which was audible in one of the Operation Swift Retort documentary.
Like if i start rattling off....it will surprise us all.

As i mentioned before, there were mistakes made by both PAF and IAF, but being part of them, i take them as normal. During battle, shit happens, we all get used to it.

I will not point out PAF's mistakes for obvious reasons. May be some other time.

Take the case of Abhinandan. He took off, full AB on. His No 2 and 3 also took off after him. As per rules, he should have waited for his No 2 and 3 to catch up, before heading westwards. However, in sheer exhuberance, he kept going on AB, low level flight, taking the advantage of the valleys. The first time he was spotted was when he started a zoom up attack, he popped up suddenly from amongst the mountains, wanting to gain height rapidly and looking around targets for R-77 maybe.

Abhi then entered the box which was being jammed by XYZ asset. At the same moment probably, the four flights of foursomes F-16s (total 16 F-16s), were seen by IAF controllers. Thats when the IAF lady flight controller is heard continuosly, yelling "flow cold". Now, interestingly, since the No 2 and 3 were way behind Abhi, and since they had not entered the kill / jam box, they received the message and went cold as ordered.

Abhi did not receive the message initially. Once he detected the PAF fighters ahead (the nearest F-16 was 9 NM away, he was not the one who took the shot though), he executed standard evasive maneuvers whereby he took 90 deg turn away from the PAF fighters in order to increase distance etc. However, the moment he started turning away from PAF aircraft, the call from the lady controller got through (Abhhi must have gotten out of jam box by now). Now the call was interpreted wrongly by Abhi. If he would have continued on his original course, he would have been far away. However, he took the call as it was like received just now. He reversed his turn and turned INTO the PAF fighters, whereby he took the hit.

PS. If by luck, Abhi's No 2 and 3 would have been with him at the moment....it would have been 16 F-16s (64 AIM-120s and 32 AIM9s overall) against 3 Mig21s....instead of 1, 3 Mig21s would have been surely downed that day. IAF was lucky in this aspect as well.


@The Eagle This is just one story out of many, including of the M-2000 CAP, the Su-30s, the bugging out of IAF AWACs, launch of SAR heli, SPYDER hit...each of these is a separate story...was it mere coincidence that the target which PAF choose to bomb was having indian army chief and possibly Corps commander as well? If PAF would have decided to bomb the target itself instead of dropping them away, wont the killing of indian army chief triggered full-out war? Can it be termed as an intelligence failure on our part? Or was it planned like this, to rattle the indian army top lot in order to bring them to their senses??

It was overall an interesting day. But so is the profession of arms otherwise. Interesting for some, deadly for many,
 

The Eagle

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However, the moment he started turning away from PAF aircraft, the call from the lady controller got through (Abhhi must have gotten out of jam box by now). Now the call was interpreted wrongly by Abhi. If he would have continued on his original course, he would have been far away. However, he took the call as it was like received just now. He reversed his turn and turned INTO the PAF fighters, whereby he took the hit.

If I understand it well, he didn't misinterpreted but ignored it if that call to flow cold was received to him. Otherwise, I am thinking that how relayed radio call which is jammed, would have still in coms and delivered afterwards? Is that like GSM com tech such as message remains active for specified time of period to be delivered to targeted com?

Like if i start rattling off....it will surprise us all.
Agreed. I was doing so in lighter mood.

During battle, shit happens, we all get used to it.

Rightly said. No one can guarantee a 100% success. Mistakes happens as well but it is the ability of the one to overcome immediately to avoid any damage.

Take the case of Abhinandan. He took off, full AB on. His No 2 and 3 also took off after him. As per rules, he should have waited for his No 2 and 3 to catch up, before heading westwards. However, in sheer exhuberance, he kept going on AB, low level flight, taking the advantage of the valleys. The first time he was spotted was when he started a zoom up attack, he popped up suddenly from amongst the mountains, wanting to gain height rapidly and looking around targets for R-77 maybe.

Seems like his mind was on something like enter the arena with surprise as practiced, zoom in from the mountains, go gun blazing by taking a shot and return as a rambo.
 

PanzerKiel

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If I understand it well, he didn't misinterpreted but ignored it if that call to flow cold was received to him. Otherwise, I am thinking that how relayed radio call which is jammed, would have still in coms and delivered afterwards? Is that like GSM com tech such as message remains active for specified time of period to be delivered to targeted com?
She was trying to reach him for a long time, once Abhi emerged out of jamming, she was still calling him, hoping he would listen and understand the magnitude of the threat he was facing at the moment (he was almost alone out there)...

The delayed call wasnt received afterwards....he got the live call.....the calls which were jammed ofcourse didnt go through at all.
 
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IceCold

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Oh Acha, a documentary...... When you have the actual radar picture to see, participating pilots to speak to, and real RT to boot..... Who asks for a documentary....?


I just saw it..., yes, the gambler call is the real one.
A question do all airforce pilots ask ground control for permission to engage? And doesn't this waste crucial time. In an event of war or conflict shouldn't the decision be left on the pilot to engage as per will?
There was only news i think by windjammer where Gambler was cautioned as well?
 

PanzerKiel

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Seems like his mind was on something like enter the arena with surprise as practiced, zoom in from the mountains, go gun blazing by taking a shot and return as a rambo.
Exactly.

A question do all airforce pilots ask ground control for permission to engage? And doesn't this waste crucial time. In an event of war or conflict shouldn't the decision be left on the pilot to engage as per will?
There was only news i think by windjammer where Gambler was cautioned as well?
For shooting Abhi, no permission was required since the status was already "weapons free" for all.

Gambler wasnt cautioned for engaging without permission. He was cautioned for for another initiative which he took during the sortie. It could have been hazardous for the whole package.

engage as per will?
If this call is received by a pilot, then its free for all. Pilots does what he want to. But since controller has better SA (situational awareness), he has to give permission keeping several parameters in mind.
 

The Eagle

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She was trying to reach him for a long time, once Abhi emerged out of jamming, she was still calling him, hoping he would listen and understand the magnitude of the threat he was facing at the moment (he was almost along out there)...

The delayed call wasnt received afterwards....he got the live call.....the calls which were jammed ofcourse didnt go through at all.

Exactly. I was bit confused so decided to ask you. She was continuously calling him until, he ended up in hospital and Indians came to know by videos on media.
 

PanzerKiel

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Sorry to bother you again but from a novice if an entire chain of command is to be taken out what happens to the remaining military? Who is going to execute planning, lead formations into a war among other things?
There are procedures already in place. Orders already fine tuned during peace, to be executed on receipt of a mere codeword. Even if a boss is killed, his next one will initiate the operation with sending a codeword. All planning is done during peace, everyone is supposed to know what is to be done during war time.
 

IceCold

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There are procedures already in place. Orders already fine tuned during peace, to be executed on receipt of a mere codeword. Even if a boss is killed, his next one will initiate the operation with sending a codeword. All planning is done during peace, everyone is supposed to know what is to be done during war time.
But what about morale? Wouldnt taking out the entire leadership rob any military of its will to fight?
 

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