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2020, the safest year for IAF with only 1 fighter aircraft crash

Mighty Lion

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one 12 month period that makes you look good means nothing. In years 2018-2020 India lost 33 planes. Yes, 33. Years 2015-2018 IAF also lost 33 planes to crashes.

That is 3 full squadrons of planes lots over a 6 years period.


No opinion, no bias here, just plane facts.

Between 2015 and 2020 IAF

Lost 66 planes to crashes

Retired 4 MIG-27 squadrons and 4 MIG-21 squadrons in same period.

So between 2015-2020 IAF lost 11 Squadrons to retirement and crashes.

Assuming all MIG-21 BIson Squadrons and Jaguar Squadrons will also be retired in next 6 years, and if historic crash rates continue, IAF will lose another 3 squadrons to crashes and another 14 squadrons to retirement. Total of 17 squadrons.

All you have currently on order to replace these is 2 squadrons of Rafales.
As you want a comparison with PAF.
Let's see data from Scramble Aviation society and Aviation Safety Network:

Since January 2012 Number of PAF fighter losses: 30

Since January 2012 Number of IAF fighter losses: 46

Ratio: 1:1.51

Now taking into account the fact that IAF inventory is nearly two times larger than PAF, IAF crash rate is relatively lower.

More importantly 20 PAF pilots died in this crashes in comparison only 8 IAF pilots died.
Which proves IAF is much safer.

Other misinfo in your post is that India will retire all Jaguars which 100% wrong as IAF chief himself confirmed that 3 Jaguar Darin-III squadrons will remain till 2037 and HAL last month started manufacturing AESA radar parts for the 56 Darin III.

Also just one week back MOD announced that India will sign Mk1A deal in February (if no MK1A deal is signed by Feb 2021, I will donate $1000 for charity of your choice).
 

Myth_buster_1

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IAF flew more in 2020 than in any other year.

Infact even during April 2019 to March 2020 period (12 months) i.e. before Covid lockdown, there were only two IAF fighter jet crashes
So IAF's secret recipe for low crash rate is fly more? NICEEEE now USAF is going to steal this vadick idea :omghaha:
As you want a comparison with PAF.
Let's see data from Scramble Aviation society and Aviation Safety Network:

Since January 2012 Number of PAF fighter losses: 30

Since January 2012 Number of IAF fighter losses: 46

Ratio: 1:1.51

Now taking into account the fact that IAF inventory is nearly two times larger than PAF, IAF crash rate is relatively lower.

More importantly 20 PAF pilots died in this crashes in comparison only 8 IAF pilots died.
Which proves IAF is much safer.

Other misinfo in your post is that India will retire all Jaguars which 100% wrong as IAF chief himself confirmed that 3 Jaguar Darin-III squadrons will remain till 2037 and HAL last month started manufacturing AESA radar parts for the 56 Darin III.

Also just one week back MOD announced that India will sign Mk1A deal in February (if no MK1A deal is signed by Feb 2021, I will donate $1000 for charity of your choice).

Looks like another Modi g Chowkidar needs spanking from his daddy myth-buster

Since 2000 IAF (excluding INAF) has lost 30 4th generation fighter jets
9 Mig-29
10 Mirage-2000
11 Su-30
from 360 4th generation fighters inventory.

Thats 1 crash for every 11 jets

Compared to PAF

1 JF-17
2 F-16
From 200 4th gen

1 crash for every 66!

PAF clearly has much better record then IAF.
_____________________

UPDATE:


Despite sanctions on Pakistan in 1990s PAF managed to clock 270+ hours per F-16 from 1994 to 2005. This has significantly increased knowing PAF has sufficient spare parts supply after new F-16 deal.

F-16 Fighting Falcon News
Pakistani F-16s reach 100,000 accident free flight hours


October 4, 2005 (by Asif Shamim) - A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

Lloyd W. "Fig" Newton, executive vice president, presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

They also commended the maintenance, quality control and flight safety standards of the PAF, which made this achievement possible.

Retired Gen. Lloyd Newton, along with Gen. (R) William J Begert, Vice President and Warren Boley, Vice President, remained with Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sadaat, Chief of Air Staff for some time and discussed matters pertaining to mutual and professional interest.



Here is something interesting

So IAF Su-30 total service life is just 6000 hours

For 30 years in service would be 200 hours per year
or 40 years of service would be just 150.


https://www.business-standard.com/a...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html
A Su-30MKI is overhauled after flying 1,500 hours or 14 years, whichever is earlier. Over its total service life of 6,000 flying hours or 30-40 years, each fighter undergoes three overhauls. Eventually, the IAF's fleet of 272 Su-30MKIs will undergo 816 overhauls - three per fighter.
 
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Yasser76

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As you want a comparison with PAF.
Let's see data from Scramble Aviation society and Aviation Safety Network:

Since January 2012 Number of PAF fighter losses: 30

Since January 2012 Number of IAF fighter losses: 46

Ratio: 1:1.51

Now taking into account the fact that IAF inventory is nearly two times larger than PAF, IAF crash rate is relatively lower.

More importantly 20 PAF pilots died in this crashes in comparison only 8 IAF pilots died.
Which proves IAF is much safer.

Other misinfo in your post is that India will retire all Jaguars which 100% wrong as IAF chief himself confirmed that 3 Jaguar Darin-III squadrons will remain till 2037 and HAL last month started manufacturing AESA radar parts for the 56 Darin III.

Also just one week back MOD announced that India will sign Mk1A deal in February (if no MK1A deal is signed by Feb 2021, I will donate $1000 for charity of your choice).

Again, your misinfortmation can be clearly busted, you do not even have a link or source.

Here is my source for IAF attrition


Since 2012 IAF have lost 102 aircraft according to the above link. So this leads me to the question, why do you feel the need to lie?

As regards to Jaguar retirement, every Indian on this forum has a different answer on when they will retire depending on the thread and debate, some say "yes, retire quickly LCA is coming, sub tik hai", others saying they will now go onto post 2030.

So which is it? Will they retire or will IAF be flying 60 year old planes soon?

With regards to IAF announcing they are "signing" LCA MK1A deal soon, they have been announcing this "signing" every year for last 4 years.

Wake us when signed.
 

Mighty Lion

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So IAF's secret recipe for low crash rate is fly more? NICEEEE now USAF is going to steal this vadick idea :omghaha:



Looks like another Modi g Chowkidar needs spanking from his daddy myth-buster

Since 2000 IAF (excluding INAF) has lost 30 4th generation fighter jets
9 Mig-29
10 Mirage-2000
11 Su-30
from 360 4th generation fighters inventory.

Thats 1 crash for every 11 jets

Compared to PAF

1 JF-17
2 F-16
From 200 4th gen

1 crash for every 66!

PAF clearly has much better record then IAF.
_____________________

UPDATE:


Despite sanctions on Pakistan in 1990s PAF managed to clock 270+ hours per F-16 from 1994 to 2005. This has significantly increased knowing PAF has sufficient spare parts supply after new F-16 deal.

F-16 Fighting Falcon News
Pakistani F-16s reach 100,000 accident free flight hours


October 4, 2005 (by Asif Shamim) - A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

Lloyd W. "Fig" Newton, executive vice president, presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

They also commended the maintenance, quality control and flight safety standards of the PAF, which made this achievement possible.

Retired Gen. Lloyd Newton, along with Gen. (R) William J Begert, Vice President and Warren Boley, Vice President, remained with Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sadaat, Chief of Air Staff for some time and discussed matters pertaining to mutual and professional interest.



Here is something interesting

So IAF Su-30 total service life is just 6000 hours

For 30 years in service would be 200 hours per year
or 40 years of service would be just 150.


https://www.business-standard.com/a...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html
A Su-30MKI is overhauled after flying 1,500 hours or 14 years, whichever is earlier. Over its total service life of 6,000 flying hours or 30-40 years, each fighter undergoes three overhauls. Eventually, the IAF's fleet of 272 Su-30MKIs will undergo 816 overhauls - three per fighter.
Already busted this.

Nonethless it makes no sense to calculate from 2000 instead of 1985-86 from where both countries started operating 4th gen jets:

Real Comparison:

Now India has accquired a total of 482 4th gen jets as of Dec 2020 ( 272 Su-30s, 125 MiG-29 incl. 29Ks, 59 Mirage 2000, 20 Tejas, 8 Rafales) and 44 4th gen crashes incl. Navy which means the crash rate is only 9.1% of fleet strength.

Pakistan accquired around 85 F-16s & 135 JF-17 (total 220) and 14 4th gen crashes so crash rate is 6.4% of fleet strength.
A very minor difference considering that US made planes have a much better safety standards and reliability than Russian ones
 
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313ghazi

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Not surprised. After 2019 your pilots were probably terrified to take to the skies.
 

Mighty Lion

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Again, your misinfortmation can be clearly busted, you do not even have a link or source.


Since 2012 IAF have lost 102 aircraft according to the above link. So this leads me to the question, why do you feel the need to lie?
Only one lying is you. That 102 includes helicopters, training aircraft, transport aircraft and fighters of all three military branches. The figure of 46 by me is for IAF fighters only.
Also in that 102 are are atleast 3 incidents in which fighter jet was repaired back to service and one wrong data (No Mig 21 crash occured in Jun 2018). So it is 98 crash incl 46 IAF Fighters
As regards to Jaguar retirement, every Indian on this forum has a different answer on when they will retire depending on the thread and debate, some say "yes, retire quickly LCA is coming, sub tik hai", others saying they will now go onto post 2030.
What members say does not matter, Only thing that matters is current IAF chief has said that 3 Jaguar squadrons will remain in service till 2037.

As for MK1A I have already challenged you that if the deal is not signed by 28 Feb 2021, I will donate $1000 to charity of your choice.
 

Yasser76

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Only one lying is you. That 102 includes helicopters, training aircraft, transport aircraft and fighters of all three military branches. The figure of 46 by me is for IAF fighters only.
Also in that 102 are are atleast 3 incidents in which fighter jet was repaired back to service and one wrong data (No Mig 21 crash occured in Jun 2018). So it is 98 crash incl 46 IAF Fighters

What members say does not matter, Only thing that matters is current IAF chief has said that 3 Jaguar squadrons will remain in service till 2037.

As for MK1A I have already challenged you that if the deal is not signed by 28 Feb 2021, I will donate $1000 to charity of your choice.
So even according to your own sources PAF lost 30 planes compared to 98 to IAF (and we do not know how many of the PAF planes were put back in service). !?
 

Mighty Lion

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So even according to your own sources PAF lost 30 planes compared to 98 to IAF (and we do not know how many of the PAF planes were put back in service). !?
Are you slow or what?
The figure of 30 for PAF includes only fighter jets unlike IAFs 98 which includes all types.
If we include all types Pak military crash list will rise to 54 (30 fighters, 14 helos, 7 trainers, 1 transport & 2 spec mission).
 

Yasser76

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Are you slow or what?
The figure of 30 for PAF includes only fighter jets unlike IAFs 98 which includes all types.
If we include all types Pak military crash list will rise to 54 (30 fighters, 14 helos, 7 trainers, 1 transport & 2 spec mission).
Sure, if we include all Indian Mil the total gets to around 159, Pak losses still a third of Indian.

You slow?
 

Surya 1

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2 years before in 2018 IAF lost more than a dozen aircrafts and helicopters with nearly 20 deaths

Even a broken clock is right twice in a day. Same was the case for IAF in 2020

In 2021 it would be back to normal for IAF
Pray Allah to grant your wish
 

Qutb-ud-din Aybak

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By open source information, this figure is:
47 jets aircrafts since 2012-2021. Not including trainers, helicopters, transport planes and the famous Su-30.
IMG_20210108_175243.jpg
IMG_20210108_175220.jpg
IMG_20210108_175140.jpg
IMG_20210108_175117.jpg

FY 2012-2017: 29 aircrafts
FY 2017-2018: 2 aircrafts
FY 2018-2019: 7 aircrafts
FY 2019-2020: 6 aircrafts
FY 2011-2012 last 6 months: 1 aircraft
FY 2020-2021: 2 aircrafts
 

Yasser76

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Wrong.
It is only after you include All, Indian total comes to 98.
No sir, you include all Pak Mil, but fail to include all Indian Mil, just IAF in a deliberate and transparent attempt to make Pak crashe numbers look high and India's lower. Compare apple with apples.
 

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