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2 years in jail, Rs500,000 fine for mocking Pakistani forces as amendment bill passed

VCheng

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Who gets to decide what is righteous criticism and what is not? I'm not old enough to remember what Zia did either but please read up on it. Please also read up on how every single measure enforcing censorship works.
The correct place to start would be to specify the standards for that in the law itself that prescribes the punishment. Unless there is an Appendix to the law, I see no evidence for any description of the offence that the alleged criminal runs afoul of before he/she/it/they are given the punishment.
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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A fair few things.

1) Motive. The only party who stands to gain anything from this measure is the Pakistani military. Correction: The Pakistani Afsar. The politician has nothing to gain from it.

2) Counterproductive for the politician. The Pakistani politician is only second to the military afsars in the Pakistani hierarchy of things. He is also, more often than not, the target of the military's whims. By passing this bill, he is shooting himself in the face. Hence the reason why no politician has ever supported any measure of this sort in Pakistan's history. Unless, he stood to gain from the military himself.

3) If we did somehow find that one politician who is honest, then by virtue of being a legislator he would know better than to push a bill as unconstitutional as this. I, at least, would think that the politician, dishonest or otherwise, is a bit wiser to the machinations of the Pakistani power landscape than the hyperbolic posters on PDF.

4) Lack of precedence. If hyperbolic nationalists were sitting in the parliament then this would not have been their first bill. PTM, at least, would have been crispy and done by now.

5) The politician does not present any bill without a concerted backing. Never on a whim. He has "better" things to do. The vote result also shows that this was not an outlier idea.

6) We've seen it all before. Many times. And every time, we did not have any evidence until decades after.
This is all speculation - here are the facts. The names of the individuals on the National Assembly Standing Committee on Interior are known: http://www.na.gov.pk/en/cmen.php?comm=MTA=

These are the individuals responsible for the bill passing through committee. These (and any legislators who vote in favor of the bill in the full NA) are the ones that everyone's ire should be directed at.

If you believe that they were coerced by the Army, ask them.

If they deny Army pressure, the responsibility is theirs.

If they admit Army pressure, the responsibility is also theirs, for betraying the trust of voters and not openly declaring that they were being pressured to push this bill through.

Until voters stop accepting these excuses of "Army made me do this, Army made me do that', and don't start holding the elected representatives accountable for THEIR actions, nothing will change.

If a majority of the electorate does not like the way a legislator voted, and that particular issue is extremely important to that majority, then vote that man/woman out.

This is how the system will evolve and strengthen and function properly, not by hiding behind gossip, rumor, speculation and conspiracy theories of the Establishment bogeyman.
 

Stealth

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The military shouldn’t offer an opinion on any law unless formally asked to do so by parliament.

Bhai, take it up with the legislator who proposed the law and those who voted for it - why make this about extensions or the Army when there is no evidence this was pushed by the Army?
Sometimes you don't need evidence... the actions show... hidden dictations...
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Sometimes you don't need evidence... the actions show... hidden dictations...
Even so - if some idiot tells you to jump off the roof and you do it, guess what?

You're the fool and the individual responsible for jumping off the roof.

So, again, if you want the system to function properly and not have parties like the PPP & PMLN continue to win elections, stop using the Establishment excuse to justify their failures. Hold the elected representatives accountable or they will never change their behavior.
 

VCheng

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Sometimes you don't need evidence... the actions show... hidden dictations...
Incorrect. Due process requires proper evidence, if there is to be any confidence in the resultant justice. As there is clearly no evidence of any wrong-doing here, there can be no justice based only on innuendo.
 

Jungibaaz

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Who decides what's constructive criticism and nonconstructive, what constitutes facts, conjecture, or propaganda? Why don't supporters of this bill and of censorship in general help create an exhaustive list of all definitions of what's banned and what's allowed. That way there is no misinterpretation or misuse of the law, until then, this is a vague and draconian bill.

And on the matter of taking to court, that recourse should be there for those under criticism to protect themselves against libel, not as a means of shouting down criticism as is wrongly thrown in here.
 

Zibago

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Who decides what's constructive criticism and nonconstructive, what constitutes facts, conjecture, or propaganda? Why don't supporters of this bill and of censorship in general help create an exhaustive list of all definitions of what's banned and what's allowed. That way there is no misinterpretation or misuse of the law, until then, this is a vague and draconian bill.
Portraying those fighting in farari camps as heroes and demonizing counter terror ops could be a start no?
 

Stealth

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Even so - if some idiot tells you to jump off the roof and you do it, guess what?

You're the fool and the individual responsible for jumping off the roof.

So, again, if you want the system to function properly and not have parties like the PPP & PMLN continue to win elections, stop using the Establishment excuse to justify their failures. Hold the elected representatives accountable or they will never change their behavior.
lol this case is only fit where there was no history of coup or no direct involvement of the military directly into the Govt affairs... under the same "LAW" to which you're referring, the coup is ILLEGAL and the person should be declared as "Traitor". These corrupt criminal enterprises like PPP especially PMLN win elections not because of people, they got powers because of fuking ESTABLISHMENT. Nawaz Sharif was sent abroad by the approval and involvement of Political Bajwa NOT PUBLIC! These guys are the real culprits, not the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES. How you get accountable Nawaz if you pursue his case anywhere in the world? NS will simply take this path in fact Govt including top ministers of the sitting govt already said "Aaap ko pata hey kinhonay bheja hey"... so if NS will take this, "I WAS SENT BY Pakistan ARMY, not by the puppet IK" (everyone knows, you can't do jack without ARMY in Pakistan). So, how you held them accountable when they scot-free by the HELP of the ARMY?
 
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pak-marine

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Too holy to say any thing , beyond the reach of common citizen to criticise army generals great conquests now , Now the Al turks of Al bakistan must do Wudu "Islamic procedure of cleansing " before talking about the most holiest organisation in pakistan
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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lol this case is only fit where there was no history of coup or no direct involvement of the military directly into the Govt affairs... under the same "LAW" to which you're referring, the coup is ILLEGAL and the person should be declared as "Traitor".
Isn't that what happened to Musharraf in the courts?
hese corrupt criminal enterprises like PPP especially PMLN win elections not because of people, they got powers because of fuking ESTABLISHMENT. Nawaz Sharif was sent abroad by the approval and involvement of Political Bajwa NOT PUBLIC! These guys are the real culprits, not the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES. How you get accountable Nawaz if you pursue his case anywhere in the world? NS will simply take this path in fact Govt including top ministers of the sitting govt already said "Aaap ko pata hey kinhonay bheja hey"... so if NS will take this, "I WAS SENT BY Pakistan ARMY, not by the puppet IK" (everyone knows, no one can do JACK without ARMY in Pakistan). So, how you held them accountable when they scot free by the HELP of ARMY?
'Everyone knows' is just restating gossip and speculation.

YOU explain to me what exactly will satisfy you that the Army is not involved?

At what point will you be satisfied that the courts are passing judgements based on the views of the judges and not the Army?

On one hand I've seen YOU argue that the Army should do this unconstitutional thing, Army should do that unconstitutional thing, and over here you're upset because 'everyone knows' the Army is doing 'unconstitutional things'.

So which is it?
 

Jungibaaz

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Portraying those fighting in farari camps as heroes and demonizing counter terror ops could be a start no?
Sure, then a law against this infraction in particular should be what is legislated. However, vague laws like the one in question can be draconian and are ripe for misuse, or alternatively they can be rendered useless if they succumb to the void-for-vagueness doctrine in a properly functioning system. The former is more of a concern in Pakistan.
 

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