The Real Reason of Germany's defeat in the Second World War

[vostok]

BS. They defended because they were ordered to. Millions of Soviets surrendered, Enough to create whole Russian divisions that fought for the Nazis.

Everyone who fought on the side of Hitler - traitors and scum...

 

[500]

what is "Kurland Kessel"? I had not even heard about it.

U know nothing but arguing.

But I bet there was not half the soldiers of the Reich, which Stalin had graciously decided not to kill - as Hitler did with half the British army during the Miracle of Dunkirk.

1000 subs? And how many were there in 1939? And how many subs you need to land on the British Isles? Because without infantry landing victory is impossible!

I already explained u that building symmetrical navy was too costly and too long. That's why he built subs. But that also took enormous resources. If Hitler was not building subs to fight UK he could build two times more tanks to fight USSR.

Britain and France had a treaty of friendship and non-aggression pact with Hitler. Stalin signed a contract last, when all his attemps to make an alliance with Britain and France ended unsuccessful.

But when Hitler started the war Britain and France declared a war against him, whilke Stalin helped him.

What war in Africa? Do not make me laugh! There was not even a tenth of the German troops who fought in the Soviet Union.

War in Africa was essential, because Hitler could get oil and attack USSR from south, easily capturing Azerbaijan.

Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia - Land of the Russian Empire.

And Italians can capture half of the Europe because its Roman Empire You asked why they did not resisted, so its same reason. Very few have a courage to resist a big bully when u know that u dont have any chance against him.

USSR defeated Japan in 1939 - this wsa the only reason why Japan did not attack the Soviet Union in 1941, and not because they fought against the United States.

Alas Stalin did not know about it and sent Siberian divisions only in very last time when Germans approached Moscow.

In spite of this, the Soviet Union held in the Far East a few dozen divisions capable to defeat Japan, if it started the war.

Japan sent all its efforts against US and Britain. And reason why it did so is because US declared heavy sanctions on Japan.

Western assistance estimated no more than 10% of the materials and pieces of equipment of the USSR. It was very important but not critical.

10% tells not much. In some areas aid was simply critical, like trucks, gunpowder, air fuel and aluminum.

As u know it defeating Germany was extremely hard effort. Now think about next situation:

* Germany has two times more tanks (no need to build submarines).
* Germany has three times more fighters (no need to defend Germany from strategic bombers and fight in Malta and Africa).
* Germany has two times more artillery (no need huge number of air defence guns).
* USSR has third less gunpowder (i.e. firepower), 15% less tanks, 15% less planes, more than half less trucks and cars (and far far beter quality), tens of millions dying from starvation without US food supplies.
* Japan with all its might attacks USSR.

What are chances of USSR in such situation? - Zero.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Some of the more important battles of entire wars. Japan then realized she did not cope with the USSR. Promotion of Japan to the north and west after Hanhin-goal was stopped. In spite of this the Soviet Union held in the Far East about 50 divisions on alert - enough tto repel the attack on the USSR. But these divisions were needed for the war against Hitler!
Kurland Kessel - So I do not understand - the division surrendered after the capitulation? So this is the meaning of capitulation!
About Dunkirk Muracle
Under these conditions , 26 May cabinet Churchill and the British Admiralty decided to withdraw its part of the British Isles . The military situation was such that at the time of the British retreat to Dunkirk on the approaches to it were already the German tanks . They came to Dunkirk two days ahead of the British, they were separated from the city center 16 km, and the British - 60 km . The Germans did not cost anything to enter the defenseless city and take a last haven from which could be held mass evacuation of British troops. But Hitler gave his famous " stop order ", which stopped any further advance . "We were speechless ," - recalled Guderian . And it was from that! At a time when there were just take one small town and decide the fate of those hostile factions , the head of Germany explicitly forbade it . It came to that General Halder began to challenge the decision of the Fuhrer and tried to explain to him the need to capture the last port on the coast. But Hitler was adamant : " The stormy debate over obtaining a definitive order of Hitler, to which he added that to ensure the implementation of its order, he will send a statement to the front of liaison officers "
So Hitler could destroy already defeated army before the evacuation. Before!
I can not understand the logic of such as you. You are realy from India?
If not Stalin - you would still have remained a colony of Britain.
Jews would be destroyed as a species. A large part of Europe would be the slaves of the Germans.
Russian soldiers - the liberator of Europe from Nazism and the world from colonialism.
Though - keep believing in Western fairy tales. West has done for you so much good!
And make it even more if you will believe all their lies!

One mistake - The Brits were evacuating and the folks were separated from the city center. But know who was defending the perimeter? 40k French soldiers under Gamelin. They fought a good rear guard action. Give them the credit. Besides I told you enough reasons in the previous post of mine, which includes Hitler's Anglophilia. Besides Goering promised to do short work of the transport fleet(he failed). But never mind.
While you live in Ukraine now, go visit the Holodomor Museum. Nice place I heard.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Everyone who fought on the side of Hitler - traitors and scum...

Of course - typical Soviet official line. This included the ones who were wounded and captured. Also those who were forced to fight. Bravo.

 

[vostok]

Of course - typical Soviet official line. This included the ones who were wounded and captured. Also those who were forced to fight. Bravo.

They made their choice. If you shoot in yours compatriots - you are Judas. And you will not be sorry for ever and ever.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

They made their choice. If you shoot in yours compatriots - you are Judas. And you will not be sorry for ever and ever.

Juvenile statement. Sorry if we have been too tough on you. So, how was the Holodomor Museum?

 

[vostok]

Juvenile statement. Sorry if we have been too tough on you. So, how was the Holodomor Museum?

So you're ready to forgive those Indians that had fought on the side of Pakistan or China?
But our war was 1000 times worse - the fate of the world was at stake, not the fate of individual countries or nations.
These museums provide children of traitors who fought for Hitler.

 

[flamer84]

The primary reason for Germany's defeat in WW2 was Hitlers meddling in strategic decisions instead of leaving it with the professionals as many of you pointed out in this thread.Examples are many,he was winning the Battle of Britain until he gave orders to attack the british cities instead of the war infrastructure just because the Fuhrer was mad that bombs struck german cities.This gave the brits respite.Many examples can be found on the Eastern front where Hitler denied his generals many strategic retreats insisting on useless "last stands to the last soldier",resulting in resources wasted.If some german general would have shot the austrian caporal in some briefing sometimes during 1941-early 1943 the3rd Reich might have had a chance of winning.After that it was to late.

I see comrade vostok can't stop pushing his retarded propaganda even in here.

 

[vostok]

Guys. You learn history wrote not by the winners of Hitler - the USSR, but wrote by the enemies of the Soviet Union.
You want to find out there a single word of truth about the Soviet Union ? You will not
Read a book of Robert Kershaw about 1941. There's a letters of Germans from the Front.
On the Western Front was no war . There was a gentleman's duel. The French and the British raised their hands and the Germans did not touch them - often did not even take into captivity and let to go home .
The war began in the 1941 th year . That division , which stormed Brest, up to 1 day of war lost more people than in all of the French company.
Because in the West, there was no war . Because all of Europe was led to Hitler with only one purpose - to destroy the Soviet Union.
What for ? Why did the Anglo-Saxons led to the rise of Hitler and gave the entire industrial might of Europe under Hitler's power ?
Because since the time of the Napoleonic wars in the world there are only two powers - Britain and Russia . And the British do not like to fight with their hands - only against the tribe people. Therefore, they have provoked the First World War. So they created Hitler and his hands started World War II.
They were planning to go to Moscow with the Germans in the 39th year.
But nothing happened - Hitler decide that he became a player that he is not a pawn no more.
He did not attack the Soviet Union and entered into an agreement with Stalin.
But his was forced by his party to attack the Soviet Union - it was a suicide , and Hitler himself knew it.

 

[jaibi]

I think the real reason is pure and simple: economics. Germany could in no way support a prolonged war in Europe and whence the US came into the picture there was no way Germany could afford the manpower and the the resources needed to be the aggressor, they naturally became the defenders. Besides this factor, also it should be noted that the war was just Germany vs. Rest in Europe. The Italians were not up to the mark and the Japs were too far away. Also the Germans had to impose themselves on the populations that they occupied, many of them did not rally to the German cause, perhaps by design. Had Germany promoted a bit more sane diplomacy they could have done to the Brits what they did to the Ottomans; they could have also roused local opposition against the aggression from the East.

It's one thing to conquer a people another to hold them and quite another to integrate them.

Let's discuss why Germany was ultimately overpowered in the Second World War, even after they once ruled most of Continental Europe. There are a number of points that can be elaborated upon. You can add as well.

1. Treachery
2. Allied Aerial bombardment - Especially oil refineries
3. Operation Uranus
4. Bagration
5. Invasion of the Soviet Union
6. Loss of Battle of Britain
7. Not taking Gibralter, Malta
8. Lack of initiative for Total War until too late
9. Over ambitious and micro management of Hitler

For getting a great feel of the entire world scenario, I will highly recommend you play Hearts of Iron III series. You will feel what the leaders felt then. Seriously.

The lack of sufficient numbers IMO is not the main reason, as they were always low in manpower even when they were winning. For example they defeated the world's largest Army (France) in around 6 weeks by maneuver. But of course it might also have its limits.

@Dillinger, @Hyperion, @Zakii, @Aeronaut, @jaibi, @RangerPK, @Zarvan and others.
Please call others as well if you so wish.

 

[vostok]

I think the real reason is pure and simple: economics. Germany could in no way support a prolonged war in Europe and whence the US came into the picture there was no way Germany could afford the manpower and the the resources needed to be the aggressor, they naturally became the defenders. Besides this factor, also it should be noted that the war was just Germany vs. Rest in Europe. The Italians were not up to the mark and the Japs were too far away. Also the Germans had to impose themselves on the populations that they occupied, many of them did not rally to the German cause, perhaps by design. Had Germany promoted a bit more sane diplomacy they could have done to the Brits what they did to the Ottomans; they could have also roused local opposition against the aggression from the East.

It's one thing to conquer a people another to hold them and quite another to integrate them.

No. The war was not Germany - against the whole of Europe. The war was Europe subordinate to Hitler - against Russia.
Map of the Reich and the vassal states in 1941

in 1942

By the way - neutral Sweden and Switzerland have been working on the Reich. And Spain also cooperate with Hitler.
Except Serbia, no nation in Europe has not had any serious resistance to Hitler.

 

[scorpionx]

@vostok:

Perhaps nobody will deny USSR's role in defeating the Germans.But two things namely (i)The supply of war machineries despite the massive attack on the Arctic convoys by German U-Boats and (ii) The hellfire rained upon German cities during the 1942-43 by the Bombard command and Eighth USSAF which drew Messerschmitts from its Eastern front had decisive effect in the due course of war.The British and Americans could not have survived without the punitive damage inflicted upon the Germans in the East,the Russians would not have survived without American supplies.

 

[jaibi]

That's the thing, vostok, the Nazis were not able to completely rouse the locals to join them. So it remained Germany, solo. Every nation they occupied had parallel governments and strong anti-German movements, usually out of their oppressiveness.

No. The war was not Germany - against the whole of Europe. The war was Europe subordinate to Hitler - against Russia.
Map of the Reich and the vassal states in 1941

in 1942

By the way - neutral Sweden and Switzerland have been working on the Reich. And Spain also cooperate with Hitler.
Except Serbia, no nation in Europe has not had any serious resistance to Hitler.

 

[vostok]

@vostok:

Perhaps nobody will deny USSR's role in defeating the Germans.But two things namely (i)The supply of war machineries despite the massive attack on the Arctic convoys by German U-Boats and (ii) The hellfire rained upon German cities during the 1942-43 by the Bombard command and Eighth USSAF which drew Messerschmitts from its Eastern front had decisive effect in the due course of war.The British and Americans could not have survived without the punitive damage inflicted upon the Germans in the East,the Russians would not have survived without American supplies.

The Soviet General Staff considered the situation if there is no help from the Allies , the war will last for a year and a half longer.
But the Soviet Union would have won anyway. Hitler himself was well aware that the attack on Russia - suicide. A war on two fronts - in general madness. He is in Mein Kampf wrote about it . And he said it more than once at party meetings .
He simply had no choice - they helped Hitler to come to power on the condition that he would attack the USSR , and the money was given to him for this and recognized him rightful ruler of Germany and gave the Ruhr , Austria and Czechoslovakia. And they gave the whole of Europe almoust without a fight just to make Hitler to fight with Russia .
Look at this photo.

Over the Reichstag - the Soviet flag . No more flags were not there. 

That's the thing, vostok, the Nazis were not able to completely rouse the locals to join them. So it remained Germany, solo. Every nation they occupied had parallel governments and strong anti-German movements, usually out of their oppressiveness.

Germany takes the best soldiers from Europe - they have served in the SS.
And the rest of the citizens of Europe have worked in factories for the benefit of the Fuhrer. They did tanks and planes and guns and bullets.
They contributed to the Hitler's victory over the Soviet Union. And it was a huge contribution.
And no uprisings in Europe was not. Resistance - do not make me laugh.
Only in Serbia were partisans. The rest Europe's resistance - at best to hide the Jews, they would not go into the woods and did not fight with Hitler.

 

[scorpionx]

Over the Reichstag - the Soviet flag . No more flags were not there. 

Germany takes the best soldiers from Europe - they have served in the SS.

That's a bit over simplification of the situation happened during February-April'1945. Stalin had two main reasons to seize Berlin before the British and Americans,1.to achieve the key symbol of allied victory 2.Operation Borodino,the soviet N-Research programme.

The race of Berlin was over when Eisenhower much consternation to Churchill insisted that Berlin was not logical nor the most desirable objective for the forces of Western allies.He had speculative intelligence report that Hitler would fight to the end in his Alpine fortress in the south.He had assured Stalin that Americans had no intention advancing Berlin.

PS: And Germany did not hire best soldiers from Europe.They simply could not. Vast majority of the Belgians detested the occupation and remained remarkably Anti-Nazi. Armed resistance was suicidal but underground resistance were made.Armee secrete eventually had 50,000 members passing valuable intel reports back to London.

Although a small minority later joined the Waffen-SS Nederland division,majority of the Dutch were anti-German. An astonishing number of Dutch resistance members were slaughtered in Englandspiel due to the appalling lax practice of SOEs in London.

Denmark,also overwhelmed by the occupation chose for passive resistance to save the country's populace. Himmler wanted Danes to join SS,but most volunteers came from German speaking south. Danes managed to smuggle large number of Jews to Sweden via fishing boats.

The history of World War is vast and sumptuous with intricate details. It can not be summarize in a single one liner.So please,lets give credit to those who really deserve it.