Abbottabad commission meeting: ‘US, Afghanistan never considered a direct t

[Devil Soul]

Abbottabad commission meeting: ‘US, Afghanistan never considered a direct threat’
Published: August 21, 2011
ISLAMABAD:
None of the Pakistani civilian or military institutions ever considered the US or Afghanistan a direct threat to the country and thus, remained oblivious to the covert US operation in Abbottabad on May 2 that killed al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden.
During the fourth meeting of the inquiry commission probing the incident, Defence Secretary Lt-Gen (retd) Syed Athar Ali provided a detailed statement explaining the salient features of Pakistan’s defence policy.
“He apprised the commission that none of the government departments including the ministry of defence, the Joint Staff Headquarters or any military service ever considered the US or Afghanistan a direct threat,” said an official handout issued after the meeting.
The secretary further said that the country’s defence policy is formulated on the basis of a policy approved by the defence committee of the cabinet, headed by the prime minister.
He explained that the defence policy directs the Joint Staff Headquarters (JSHQ) to formulate a Joint Strategic Directive (JSD). The JSD was issued in 2007 following an extensive debate within the armed forces and acts as the main document for everything, including composition, structuring, development plans, training, methodology, employment strategy, and so on. The JSD also issues specific instructions to the armed forces to prepare for countering an identified threat.
The secretary further apprised the commission that the May 2 incident has left a very deep imprint on the entire nation, the armed forces in particular. He said that the armed forces are now better prepared to respond to any such threat.
The defence secretary also explained that unlike an undefended civilian compound, our strategic assets are well protected and an elaborate defensive mechanism is in place.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 21st, 2011.

 

[Arsalan]

Abbottabad Commission gets briefing from PAF pilots, AOC
ISLAMABAD: The inquiry commission on Abbottabad operation was told on Saturday that on learning about the US operation to get the al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) immediately took adequate operational measures as per the standard operating procedure (SOP) and PAF aircraft continued their presence in Abbottabad till early morning.

The inquiry commission comprising former senior judge of the Supreme Court Justice (R) Javed Iqbal, IG (R) Abbas Khan, Ashraf Jehangir Qazi, and Lt Gen (R) Nadeem Ahmed visited PAF HQ Air Defence Command Chaklala where they were briefed by the pilots, who flew aircraft for scanning the area for any intruders on the night between 1st and 2nd May, 2011. Air Officer Commanding (AOC) and pilots of aircraft also responded to various questions asked by the commission.

The AOC gave a detailed briefing to the commission highlighting the events leading to Abbottabad operation. He elaborated the functioning of radar system which forms the fundamental component of PAF air defence system. He also informed the commission about various locations of low and high altitude PAF radars and their operational readiness during war as well as peace time. He indicated situations where radar system can not detect an intruding aircraft/helicopter due to terrain limitations.

The AOC stated that for the past many years and prior to May 2, PAF has maintained peace time posture on its western borders. The commission will conduct a two-day visit to Abbottabad from September 13 to see the site of incident and record the statements of witnesses.

Abbottabad Commission gets briefing from PAF pilots, AOC

 

[third eye]

Greetings third eye

What credible evidence do you have to support that Pakistan Government or the army is harbour OBL in Abbotabad?

Regards
Ameer

Ameer

I neither have evidence nor would wish to place it here if I had.

What I do know is that he lived / was found in Abbotabad next to the PMA , Kakul. Ppl here claim the ISI to be among the best agencies in the world. Isnt it strange that they did not know the worlds most wanted man lived in their own nation next to a premier military institution where VIPs visit at least every six months for a POP. Security sweeps of areas in the vicinity & along the fly path of Choppers are routine activities.

It is unbelieveable that such things could be glossed over. Also shocking is the fact that US created a ' safe house' / observation house & kept OBL's home under survellience and the ISI could not know !

The GOP has to stop believing that the world believes its rant of ' non state actors' carrying out acts the GOP cannot control ,moreso when its own arm funds & supports them. It has to take ownership for what happens from within its borders. It also needs to stop running with hare & hunting with the hound, it cannot take money for ' services' provided and shaft the client...or admit that they cannot control rogue elements inside their nation and let the world handle.

It has become like a lie being said over & over again till the liar himself starts believing it.

I have just read posts here questioning thact that OBL existed / lived in Pak. This is delusional.

 

[Mav3rick]

Ameer

I neither have evidence nor would wish to place it here if I had.

What I do know is that he lived / was found in Abbotabad next to the PMA , Kakul. Ppl here claim the ISI to be among the best agencies in the world. Isnt it strange that they did not know the worlds most wanted man lived in their own nation next to a premier military institution where VIPs visit at least every six months for a POP. Security sweeps of areas in the vicinity & along the fly path of Choppers are routine activities.

It is unbelieveable that such things could be glossed over. Also shocking is the fact that US created a ' safe house' / observation house & kept OBL's home under survellience and the ISI could not know !

The GOP has to stop believing that the world believes its rant of ' non state actors' carrying out acts the GOP cannot control ,moreso when its own arm funds & supports them. It has to take ownership for what happens from within its borders. It also needs to stop running with hare & hunting with the hound, it cannot take money for ' services' provided and shaft the client...or admit that they cannot control rogue elements inside their nation and let the world handle.

It has become like a lie being said over & over again till the liar himself starts believing it.

I have just read posts here questioning thact that OBL existed / lived in Pak. This is delusional.

The things you have identified above as 'unbelievable' aren't really as unbelievable as your post itself. Let me clear 2 things:

1) The compound where OBL had allegedly lived was identified as a probable militant safe house by ISI and advised to CIA as early as March, ISI had also requested that CIA trace and tap the calls that were being made from wireless (mobile & satellite) sets from that house as they suspected it was a hideout for a high value target. Links to the messenger who allegedly led CIA to OBL were also provided by ISI!!

2) It has yet to be decided by our own commission whether OBL was indeed present as we cannot just accept the US at face value. We all remember very well the WMD's or Iraq, 9/11 and so on.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

this place was raided before and nothing was found. Afterwards it got new occupants and some suspicion was aroused and it was again communicated to CIA. Now note that there were many such places in the country and along the border that were potentially the hiding place of the worlds most wanted person, so this place was as good as any other place in the region. and CIA used its own ops and it conformed with what information Pakistan gave so the end result was that USA was in a better position to pin point that location as prime location of OBL but decided to keep ISI in the dark. they used the information from Pakistan and verified it with what they had gathered from the rest of the world and came to a conclusion that this place was worth raiding.

they say they found a treasure cove in the raid but yet have to give any information that suggested that ISI or PA was involved at lower level let alone at the highest levels. in Osama's alleged presence there. I say alleged because we only have the American word for it and the die hard argument that Americans wouldn’t have launched this operation just on a hunch or a lie (well they have done it in the past by invading a country) but as far as the 2nd May attack is concerned it’s a popular opinion that it was indeed on OBL and he was killed and buried in the sea, it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t because the popular opinion says he was and that’s the end of it. Unless OBL himself now comes in the video, mocking the American operation in 2nd May and ends his video with the usual anti West ranting then that would be something to consider.

having said that, as far as ISI being in the dark is concerned it was an intelligence failure nonetheless and was as bad as the failing of CIA, NSA and FBI etc when 11 hijackers who trained and hijacked not one not 2 not 3 but four planes and managed to attack twin towers and Pentagon. But it’s the same ISI that captured the top tier of AQ now if one mentions the names of AL Libi, Al faraj or KSM then people might say Al Libi who? KSM who? Because they are history and the constant media bombardment means that anything that is old and discarded by the media is erased from the memory of the public too and they only respond to the current barrage just like hypnotised or mind controlled drones.

As far as the Pakistan’s own investigation post OBL raid is concerned, if they have secured the blood in the bedroom and the clothing allegedly used by OBL and use the DNA sample to establish that it was really him them that will put this controversy to rest. But for that they need some previous confirmed DNA samples of OBL. OBL’s family in the past has refused to cooperate with US or Saudis to provide dental records or anything else to help in the capture of OBL so I doubt they will be anymore willing at this time. So all ISI has is the wives of OBL to verify if it was indeed but believing in what they say is down to our own judgement. But Like I said earlier, it doesn’t matter, OBL is history and the popular opinion says he is fish food now
The pressing part is if indeed the Pakistani state was involved in his hiding or not. But Americans themselves have established that he was out of touch out of the loop of the AQ workings and decision making so his removal means nothing to the AQ.

Therefore in my opinion, Pakistan had no incentive to keep him hiding for any bargaining, which is ludicrous suggestion because handing him over to the world far outweighed any benefits of hiding him. Had ISI known about him, that capture by ISI would have vindicated Pakistani position and given a clean slate from all the negative propganda and smear campaigne. Too bad for Pakistan that their war allies decided to do it alone for their own reasons. The charge of getting (nonexistent) US aid is also misplaced and exaggerated because if indeed it was given then it was only a fraction to what Pakistan lost due to its involvement in WoT and over 35k lives of its citizens.

The courier was the crucial element that CIA was aware about and had been tracking him and keep that information from ISI but that’s nothing new from CIA, they have their own professional rivalries in USA with other agencies and that’s what led to the attacks of 911.

organisations like CIA, NSA due to their own nature grow bigger than the state themselves and put the lives of the people at stake they are sworn to defend. Keeping ISI in the dark didn’t need too much consideration. Gen Petraeus’s statement to the select committee about Haqqani network being an arm of ISI reminds me of the similar sort of statement made by Gen Colin Powell to UN about the Iraqi WMDs, I admire both generals and don’t fault their honour but that admiration is only for their military carrier not what they said n their statements because that has been found to be wrong

 

[Mav3rick]

this place was raided before and nothing was found. Afterwards it got new occupants and some suspicion was aroused and it was again communicated to CIA. Now note that there were many such places in the country and along the border that were potentially the hiding place of the worlds most wanted person, so this place was as good as any other place in the region. and CIA used its own ops and it conformed with what information Pakistan gave so the end result was that USA was in a better position to pin point that location as prime location of OBL but decided to keep ISI in the dark. they used the information from Pakistan and verified it with what they had gathered from the rest of the world and came to a conclusion that this place was worth raiding.

they say they found a treasure cove in the raid but yet have to give any information that suggested that ISI or PA was involved at lower level let alone at the highest levels. in Osama's alleged presence there. I say alleged because we only have the American word for it and the die hard argument that Americans wouldn’t have launched this operation just on a hunch or a lie (well they have done it in the past by invading a country) but as far as the 2nd May attack is concerned it’s a popular opinion that it was indeed on OBL and he was killed and buried in the sea, it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t because the popular opinion says he was and that’s the end of it. Unless OBL himself now comes in the video, mocking the American operation in 2nd May and ends his video with the usual anti West ranting then that would be something to consider.

having said that, as far as ISI being in the dark is concerned it was an intelligence failure nonetheless and was as bad as the failing of CIA, NSA and FBI etc when 11 hijackers who trained and hijacked not one not 2 not 3 but four planes and managed to attack twin towers and Pentagon. But it’s the same ISI that captured the top tier of AQ now if one mentions the names of AL Libi, Al faraj or KSM then people might say Al Libi who? KSM who? Because they are history and the constant media bombardment means that anything that is old and discarded by the media is erased from the memory of the public too and they only respond to the current barrage just like hypnotised or mind controlled drones.

As far as the Pakistan’s own investigation post OBL raid is concerned, if they have secured the blood in the bedroom and the clothing allegedly used by OBL and use the DNA sample to establish that it was really him them that will put this controversy to rest. But for that they need some previous confirmed DNA samples of OBL. OBL’s family in the past has refused to cooperate with US or Saudis to provide dental records or anything else to help in the capture of OBL so I doubt they will be anymore willing at this time. So all ISI has is the wives of OBL to verify if it was indeed but believing in what they say is down to our own judgement. But Like I said earlier, it doesn’t matter, OBL is history and the popular opinion says he is fish food now
The pressing part is if indeed the Pakistani state was involved in his hiding or not. But Americans themselves have established that he was out of touch out of the loop of the AQ workings and decision making so his removal means nothing to the AQ.

Therefore in my opinion, Pakistan had no incentive to keep him hiding for any bargaining, which is ludicrous suggestion because handing him over to the world far outweighed any benefits of hiding him. Had ISI known about him, that capture by ISI would have vindicated Pakistani position and given a clean slate from all the negative propganda and smear campaigne. Too bad for Pakistan that their war allies decided to do it alone for their own reasons. The charge of getting (nonexistent) US aid is also misplaced and exaggerated because if indeed it was given then it was only a fraction to what Pakistan lost due to its involvement in WoT and over 35k lives of its citizens.

The courier was the crucial element that CIA was aware about and had been tracking him and keep that information from ISI but that’s nothing new from CIA, they have their own professional rivalries in USA with other agencies and that’s what led to the attacks of 911.

organisations like CIA, NSA due to their own nature grow bigger than the state themselves and put the lives of the people at stake they are sworn to defend. Keeping ISI in the dark didn’t need too much consideration. Gen Petraeus’s statement to the select committee about Haqqani network being an arm of ISI reminds me of the similar sort of statement made by Gen Colin Powell to UN about the Iraqi WMDs, I admire both generals and don’t fault their honour but that admiration is only for their military carrier not what they said n their statements because that has been found to be wrong

These bigots know all this very well. Yet they take advantage of every situation against Pakistan and perhaps we must do the same, at every level.

 

[BATMAN]

eye witness says it was all drama and only one heli landed and than destroyed deliberately.

Some unknown women were doped out of the landed heli and nothing more.

 

[third eye]

The things you have identified above as 'unbelievable' aren't really as unbelievable as your post itself. Let me clear 2 things:

1) The compound where OBL had allegedly lived was identified as a probable militant safe house by ISI and advised to CIA as early as March, ISI had also requested that CIA trace and tap the calls that were being made from wireless (mobile & satellite) sets from that house as they suspected it was a hideout for a high value target. Links to the messenger who allegedly led CIA to OBL were also provided by ISI!!

2) It has yet to be decided by our own commission whether OBL was indeed present as we cannot just accept the US at face value. We all remember very well the WMD's or Iraq, 9/11 and so on.

Do you actually believe the bold part above ?

Does the ISI not possess the equipment & skills to trace & tap calls ? If the ISI could provide ' links' why could it have not apprehended OBL themselves ?

When it wanted to Bugti was traced & killed in Balouchistan.

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

eye witness says it was all drama and only one heli landed and than destroyed deliberately.

Some unknown women were doped out of the landed heli and nothing more.

A horse can be taken to water but it cannot be forced to drink.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Do you actually believe the bold part above ?

Does the ISI not possess the equipment & skills to trace & tap calls ? If the ISI could provide ' links' why could it have not apprehended OBL themselves ?

When it wanted to Bugti was traced & killed in Balouchistan.

valid point mate,


but its one of the many arguments and nothing is certain. Pakistan uses the software and equipment provided by the the Americans to capture high value targets. one thing that you Mav are missing is that OBL kept complete radio silence and like I said it was done via a courier that was known to CIA due to his direct or indirect involvement/ meetings with people that operated outside Pakistan and so CIA was able to build up a picture with a pattern that linked this place in his repeated travels.

this is what ISI depended on CIA to provide to reach a conclusion which CIA did thanks to whatever ISI had. maybe the information from ISI was completely irrelevant and it helped CIA to eliminate the other possibilities thus indirectly helping to narrow down the mansion in Abbotabad. its not a very simple and easy to understand route my dear. the investigation, spying and piecing the evidence together is a complex process which cant be just explained in few paragraphs here in this forum
if that was too easy then the 11 hijackers would have been caught well before they had made their journey to the airport.

Bughti was nailed due to his constant bragging on the phone. Bramdagh is smart he does that from Afghanistan or Sweden were we cant touch him.

Re OBL, the simple explanation is that we failed ourselves to identify him there. And that’s it. We are still waiting for anything that can be used as a proof that Pakistani state was involved in his hiding. Not the usual farting speculations that since he was next to the academy so we were involved etc because using this argument opens the Pandora’s box of counter argument that CIA and NSA rivalry meant that 11 hijackers were able to kill thousands of Americans because both agencies didn’t share the information more willingly that could have stopped the 911 atrocity and the resulting chaos in the world till this day and in the future.

 

[khail007]

A horse can be taken to water but it cannot be forced to drink.

Until the horse feels thirst of something to drink and then the horse will drink any water regardless of quality to quench thirst.

Human beings are a different story, if they are not biased/feared they should ask for proof of some acceptable quality to believe - but in real the story is different - some people shamelessly accepts the garbage uttered by Americans as credible proof though their lies proved many times in the past.

Your case is totally biased, you are looking into it with a typical Indian eye having American optic nerve. Your thirst requires some anti-Pakistan material to be quenched and hence accepting any type of material - it reflects through your previous message also. In my feeling this is totally negative attitude.

 

[Mav3rick]

Until the horse feels thirst of something to drink and then the horse will drink any water regardless of quality to quench thirst.

Human beings are a different story, if they are not biased/feared they should ask for proof of some acceptable quality to believe - but in real the story is different - some people shamelessly accepts the garbage uttered by Americans as credible proof though their lies proved many times in the past.

Your case is totally biased, you are looking into it with a typical Indian eye having American optic nerve. Your thirst requires some anti-Pakistan material to be quenched and hence accepting any type of material - it reflects through your previous message also. In my feeling this is totally negative attitude.

Besides, the onus is on the US to prove that OBL was indeed at Abbatabad and not the other way around. The world should have been demanding proof from the US Govt. instead of accepting every word they 'fabricate' and not only that the free world should have reprimanded the US for violating a sovereign country's air space and carry out an illegal operation.....that too in the country that is an 'ally' and forefront in this US terror war.

Infact in a free world a free UN would have demanded proof of Al-Qaeda and 9/11, they would have sent in their own 'neutral' investigations & forensics team, they would have determined whether the story was credible or not. In a free world the UN would have opposed any war on Iraq over WMD's especially as the UN watchdog on WMD's cleared Iraq. In a free world the US would not have existed in this state, it would have had been leashed a long time ago.

But we do not live in a free world, do we?