why is denying the holocaust against the law?

[qamar1990]

Well, what else would you call somebody who denies one of the most documented event in human history, to which there are living witnesses to this day? What would you call somebody who denies that world war 2 took place?

ok sure .. we know it happened.
but do human rights go down the toilet? obviously no hence these laws have to be removed or other laws should be placed where drawings of our prophet shouldn't be allowed, you know what I'm saying ?

 

[Dubious]

I was looking at the wiki page:

Scholars have pointed out that countries that specifically ban Holocaust denial generally have legal systems that limit speech in other ways, such as banning hate speech.

Well Dutch didnt find the Muhammad cartoons as hate speech...

While Holocaust denial is not explicitly illegal in the Netherlands, the courts consider it a form of spreading hatred and therefore an offence.[36] According to the Dutch public prosecution office, offensive remarks are only punishable by Dutch law if they equate to discrimination against a particular group. The relevant laws of the Dutch penal code are as follows:
He who in public, either verbally or in writing or image, deliberately offends a group of people because of their race, their religion or beliefs, their hetero- or homosexual orientation or their physical, psychological or mental handicap, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine of the third

He who in public, either verbally or in writing or image, incites hatred or discrimination against people or incites acts of violence towards people or property of people because of their race, their religion or beliefs, their gender, their hetero- or homosexual orientation or their physical, psychological or mental handicap, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine of the third category.

 

[janon]

ok sure .. we know it happened.
but do human rights go down the toilet? obviously no hence these laws have to be removed or other laws should be placed where drawings of our prophet shouldn't be allowed, you know what I'm saying ?

I know, I already said before, that it shouldn't be criminalized. Everybody should have a right to say what they believe, even if their beliefs are wrong. I was simply justifying the "crazy" label I attributed to holocaust deniers.

 

[qamar1990]

I agree with you on this.

Denying or questioning the holocaust should not be made illegal. It is a bad move.

We give someone the right to deny that 2+2 equals 4 do we not. It still remains a fact that 2+2 does equal 4. Similarly because some nut jobs deny the holocaust, does not mean that their freedom to deny or question the holocaust is taken away. That is wrong. The best way is to show them facts.

Though off topic: @500 , could you give us an understanding of why anti-semitism exists at all ? I mean the why have both historically Europeans and Arabs/Muslims till date have this aversion to Jews? Muslims to some extent I can understand because if their holy book says 'jews are your biggest enemy', most Muslims will blindly start hating jews for that reason alone. But Europeans are by and large thinking and educated people.

Because in India, we simply don't have any concept of anti-semitism. Most of us are not even aware that some people are against the Jews. And so we don't quite get the reason for it. The Jews of India have been welcomed and treated as any other citizens. They have been assets to India and India is better for having Jews among our society. Its the same for Parsis(Zoroastrians), we have welcomed them and our society is richer(and I don't mean in monetary terms) for having them here.

good thing i mentioned you i knew i could count on you to say the right thing lol.

 

[Cherokee]

One cannot put his views about a holocaust but one can put views about religion with more than billion followers and its called freedom of speech, where the hell it goes when it comes to holocaust? anyone can differ to views or facts it human mind.

Facts are not beliefs hence immutable . Freedom of speech does not mean you will deny facts .

They were there to stop blood shed on religious basis and to stop non Muslims in falling some elements hand who may wanted to create religious rift by using them, although the law may not be used to its soul.

I agree that freedom of speech should have its limits, so no one can hurt others feelings.

Yeah Non muslims are gullible and all muslims are intelligentsia .

 

[Koovie]

these are the punishments for denying the holocaust according to the wikipage.


DateNameCountrySentence
(various)Jean-Marie Le PenFrance, Germanyfines[55]
Feb. 27, 1998Roger GaraudyFranceimprisonment (suspended), ₣240,000 fine[56]
Jul. 21, 1998Jürgen GrafSwitzerland15 months' imprisonment (fled Switzerland to avoid sentence)[57]
Jul. 21, 1998Gerhard FörsterSwitzerland12 months' imprisonment, disgorgement[58]
April 8, 1999Fredrick TöbenAustralia7 months' imprisonment Mannheim, Germany - retrial - 2011 indefinitely stayed by judge Dr Meinerzhagen. October 1 - November 19, 2008, London, extradition to Mannheim, Germany, on European Arrest Warrant issued by Germany, failed. August 15 - November 12, 2009, Adelaide, Australia - for contempt of court because he refused to stop questioning the Holocaust's 3 basics: 6 million, systematic state extermination, gas chambers as murder weapon.
May 27, 1999Jean PlantinFrance6 months' imprisonment (suspended), fine, damages[59]
Apr. 11, 2000Gaston-Armand AmaudruzSwitzerland1 year imprisonment, damages[60]
Feb. 20, 2006David IrvingAustria1 year imprisonment[61]
Mar. 15, 2006Germar RudolfGermany2½ years' imprisonment[62]
Oct. 3, 2006Robert FaurissonFrance€7,500 fine, 3 months' probation[63]
Feb. 15, 2007Ernst ZündelGermany5 years' imprisonment[64]
Jan. 14, 2008Wolfgang FröhlichAustria6 years' imprisonment (third offence)[65]
Jan. 15, 2008Sylvia StolzGermany3½ years' imprisonment[66]
Mar. 11, 2009Horst MahlerGermany5 years' imprisonment[67]
Oct. 23, 2009Dirk ZimmermanGermany9 months' imprisonment[68]
Oct. 27, 2009Richard WilliamsonGermany€12,000 fine[69] [later overturned]
Jan. 31, 2013Gyorgy NagyHungary18-month suspended jail sentence [70]

Mhh it goes from fines to prison....

But I dont know what, how, infront of whom and why they denied the holocaust

However, when Muslims say that....someone opnely announce something to get into serious trouble and say does...why is a different answer or different tactic resorted to them?

What exactly do you mean with that?

 

[Thirdfront]

The same reason one deny one God.

??? There is no evidence for gods that can stand any amount of scientific scrutiny.... Holocaust happened in the living time of so many people.. Freedom of speech doesn't mean one is free to shout fire in packed auditorium.... Holocaust denial is closely associated with xenophobia and nazis... Now, your question can be rephrased in this way, is banning nazi party against freedom of expression???

 

[qamar1990]

Mhh it goes from fines to prison....

But I dont know what, how, infront of whom and why they denied the holocaust


What exactly do you mean with that?

well you can look it up by searching each person.
should it even matter how they denied it? is it not a basic human right to simply deny something?
if denying the holocaust is wrong then make denying god wrong as well or something… it opens doors for too many things and gives too much power to the government

what would be next on the list?
these types of laws will bring to the situation in the book 1984

 

[Basel]

Yeah Non muslims are gullible and all muslims are intelligentsia .

Why most Indian members take every thing in negative perspective?

 

[janon]

Facts are not beliefs hence immutable . Freedom of speech does not mean you will deny facts .

Speech is not about beliefs alone. It can also be about opinions, or facts, or what the person thinks is factual. If a person believes that it is a fact that the holocaust did not happen, he has every right to say so. And from that statement, you can deduce that being a fact and being a belief are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Everybody who has a belief thinks that the belief is factually true.

 

[Cherokee]

Why most Indian members take every thing in negative perspective?

Your post was negative . Anybody with a cell of functioning grey matter can tell you that .

 

[Dubious]

Well, what else would you call somebody who denies one of the most documented event in human history, to which there are living witnesses to this day? What would you call somebody who denies that world war 2 took place?

Well 1 of the most documented is overstating!

Most of the info came from a journal of a lady (Anne Frank) "believed" to have lived and survived the holocaust...how? no one knows nor dared question....

Well there are hundreds to thousands of articles about the diary being a "hoax" - never read those researches but yea there are some "studies" from America....

In fact alot of the info was from the records that German men who were good with records...But there are some cases which make a 2+2 into a 6....

Well there is no law forcing one to believe in the WW2!

 

[qamar1990]

??? There is no evidence for gods that can stand any amount of scientific scrutiny.... Holocaust happened in the living time of so many people.. Freedom of speech doesn't mean one is free to shout fire in packed auditorium.... Holocaust denial is closely associated with xenophobia and nazis... Now, your question can be rephrased in this way, is banning nazi party against freedom of expression???

banning the nazi party is against freedom of expression.
don't forget murder should be against the law not being a nazi or a KKK
in america we have neo nazi who live freely, they have the right to say what ever they want!

it only becomes a crime when a murder is committed or something.

would thinking be next on the list of being a crime? thinking against the state? or a person ect.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Facts are not beliefs hence immutable . Freedom of speech does not mean you will deny facts .

Wrong. Freedom of speech means, you are free to air your views, no matter how eschewed they might be. They maybe based on facts, or quite the opposite, but they are "your views!!"

 

[Dubious]

What exactly do you mean with that?

Dutch (same people who have a law against denial of Holocaust) did nothing until pressured when it came to Muhammad cartoon in fact they even went to support freedom of speech when asked about it