Why didn't the Chinese people overthrow Mao's government during the Great Famine of 1959–1961? Many

[Bussard Ramjet]

The reason is simple, none of the previous dynasties engaged in mass brainwashing. My parents generation went through the Great Famine, yet none of them blamed the government at the time. Most of the average citizens were not sophisticated enough to understand economic policies of the day that led to the collapse in the economy. They all had this China against the rest of the evil Capitalist world mentality at the time. A lot of them even blame the Soviets for bailing out on China. In so many words, it was anything except the Chinese government that caused the problems.

The peasant revolts that led to dynastic changes throughout Chinese history didn't have a propaganda machine that diverted their attention from hunger to some outside enemy source.

As a current parallel, you can look to North Korea. It has had its fair share of famine, yet no revolts. Brainwashing at its best.

Why didn't the Chinese people overthrow Mao's government during the Great Famine of 1959–1961? Many dynasties in Chinese history were overthrown by the hungry people during famine. - Quora

 

[Steve781]

They were too hungry?

 

[C130]

early 1960's era china. I doubt if information traveled far and fast back then like it is it today with multi-media.

i'm sure the red army and officials were well taken care so the peasants are the ones left with the short end of the stick.

and not to sound cold hearted but the death of 7 to 15 million chinese in the span of 3 years from famine was just a blimp on a chart. chinese population was exploding well before the famine and after.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Why didn't Americans revolt during the Great Depression, when milk was being dumped into the ocean as infants starved? There is photographic evidence of starvation and malnutrition in the Great Depression, but not the Great Leap Forward. If 15 million died, there would be bones in the soil from that era and mass graves, none were found; WW2 produced supposedly less deaths but mass graves are still being excavated.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

early 1960's era china. I doubt if information traveled far and fast back then like it is it today with multi-media.

i'm sure the red army and officials were well taken care so the peasants are the ones left with the short end of the stick.

and not to sound cold hearted but the death of 7 to 15 million chinese in the span of 3 years from famine was just a blimp on a chart. chinese population was exploding well before the famine and after.

You must check the American population as well. It exploded much more than the Chinese population. Both due to immigration, and very very high fertility rates.

 

[Akasa]

Considering that merely twenty years prior the same people were the ones who swept the CCP into power, it would be difficult for them to comprehend that the party they viewed as "saviors" during the 1940s would be the same one causing the economic disaster. It is difficult having a change of heart regarding a political party that one probably viewed earlier as a safeguard of the "people's interests" against the "evils of Capitalism".

But I wholeheartedly agree that the state turns towards external influences to divert growing discontent of the proletariat. This practice is seen with every government that wishes to dispel domestic unrest by virtue of uniting its people against a common, but usually intangible, enemy.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Considering that merely twenty years prior the same people were the ones who swept the CCP into power, it would be difficult for them to comprehend that the party they viewed as "saviors" during the 1940s would be the same one causing the economic disaster. It is difficult having a change of heart regarding a political party that one probably viewed earlier as a safeguard of the "people's interests" against the "evils of Capitalism".

But I wholeheartedly agree that the state turns towards external influences to divert growing discontent of the proletariat. This practice is seen with every government that wishes to dispel domestic unrest by virtue of uniting its people against a common, but usually intangible, enemy.

Quite a good observation. True! All states turn to outside enemy

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Who cares?

You can even make the statement of Mao killing 500 million Chinese, but would this ever change the regard of the Chinese people towards Mao? Nope.

Which regard are you talking about?

Almost all young Chinese I have spoken to have feelings ranging from Normal to hostile towards Mao. Mao doesn't have a legacy.

 

[tranquilium]

lel, more deflection

so let me get this straight... you really believe that your warmly loved Chairman Mao did not order the killing of millions of your own people, right ?


all I want is to know your thoughts and an honest answer from you about the state sanctioned murder of millions of Chinese people on Chairman Mao's orders

so just what do you think about it, like maybe you think it's all propaganda and lies or something, eh ?

pro hint: don't bother flipping through your little red book for the answer, it's not there

Right...because food shortage due one of the worst droughts in the century, on an un-industrialized nation translates to state sanctioned murder. Brilliant logic.

Then, by the same argument, 200 million Indians are being slowly murdered each year by India government on a good year and this has lasted more than six decades. Considering all this time India is actually exporting food for profit, why haven't Indians rise up to throw the Indian government?

I got ask, did any of you actually bother to research any background information through credible sources?

early 1960's era china. I doubt if information traveled far and fast back then like it is it today with multi-media.

i'm sure the red army and officials were well taken care so the peasants are the ones left with the short end of the stick.

and not to sound cold hearted but the death of 7 to 15 million chinese in the span of 3 years from famine was just a blimp on a chart. chinese population was exploding well before the famine and after.

7-15 million is the total number of death in China during the three years. Since Chinese has yet to learn the secret of immortality, how exact is this number attributed to famine?

It is funny how the the supposed "number of death by great leap forward" changed from the past two decades, especially after cult sources such as epochtime appeared. The number shift from the initial 1.2 million to 2 million, to 5 million, to 10 million, to 50 million and there is one recent one that claimed that "Mao murdered 80 million Chinese". Did any of you actual think for second if any of these numbers are even remotely realistic? The Russian front during WWII is one of the most brutal war in the history left the entire western part of USSR devastate and what is the combined military and civilian casualty? 30 million and USSR did not recover until decades later. In comparison, Chinese population made a temporary plateau and exploded right back. If there really are as much death as you claimed, where are the mass graves? Where is the demographic change? Where are any of the actual evidence and where are the matching statistics?

This is not even getting into the fact that prior to 1949, an average year is a year way worse than 1959 to 1961. Considering that the population of China has not change from 1912 to 1949 despite being an rural agrarian society where 3 to 4% growth is the natural figure. China started out in 1949 with pretty much zero infrastructure and barely started its industrialization when one of the worst drought of the century hit in 1959. Why is anyone surprised that famine occurred? And what exactly do you think the reaction of Chinese would be when the PRC is the one reason the damage is being limited instead developing one of those full-blown disasters oh so common in the 38 years before PRC is founded?

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Right...because food shortage due one of the worst droughts in the century, on an un-industrialized nation translates to state sanctioned murder. Brilliant logic.

Then, by the same argument, 200 million Indians are being slowly murdered each year by India government on a good year and this has lasted more than six decades. Considering all this time India is actually exporting food for profit, why haven't Indians rise up to throw the Indian government?

I got ask, did any of you actually bother to research any background information through credible sources?

I am not on the same page as with my fellow Indian compatriot, but yes, Mao's policies did lead to famine, which can't be wished away. Great Leap Forward, was a grand disaster.

Also, I agree, that this is no where close to genocide or something. But, a cold, and bloody stupidity.

For me, the CCP has more than redeemed itself. The only thing I have feud with is, that this whole topic, and its discussion is state sponsored and banned.

 

[C130]

q

You must check the American population as well. It exploded much more than the Chinese population. Both due to immigration, and very very high fertility rates.

china had a high population to begin with. 670 million in 1960 compared to the U.S 180 million. in 1970 the population rose to 818 million a 148 million increase.

mass scale deaths is nothing new to china.


they recover quite quickly. well with the one china policy and the aging population they probably could still afford to lose ten million or a even 100 million lives to a natural disaster or war.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

q



china had a high population to begin with. 670 million in 1960 compared to the U.S 180 million. in 1970 the population rose to 818 million a 148 million increase.

mass scale deaths is nothing new to china.


they recover quite quickly. well with the one china policy and the aging population they probably could still afford to lose ten million or a even 100 million lives to a natural disaster or war.

In every country's development cycle in the industrialized world, there are three phases.

First is that when amount of population is simply limited by food and subsistence level factors, like what was happening in Africa 2 decades back.

Second, is the explosion of population because the population is finally getting food safety, and basic health care, but aren't highly educated enough.

Third phase is the drop in fertility rates, due to the education of population and general spirit of individualism.

Yes, China has expanded, but it greatly moderated its second phase. Now compare US of 1800 with US of 2000 and the ratio of population growth is just enormously huge.

 

[C130]

In every country's development cycle in the industrialized world, there are three phases.

First is that when amount of population is simply limited by food and subsistence level factors, like what was happening in Africa 2 decades back.

Second, is the explosion of population because the population is finally getting food safety, and basic health care, but aren't highly educated enough.

Third phase is the drop in fertility rates, due to the education of population and general spirit of individualism.

Yes, China has expanded, but it greatly moderated its second phase. Now compare US of 1800 with US of 2000 and the ratio of population growth is just enormously huge.

i don't even know what your point is. my point has been china has seen large scale deaths in the tens of millions time and time again, but it's large population spurts always nullify the long term impact.

List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


china ranks at the top of most categories.


u.s population growth has little do with that.

only few times have we suffered large scale deaths that effected the entire country

1.the civil war
2.ww1 and spanish flu.

 

[tranquilium]

I am not on the same page as with my fellow Indian compatriot, but yes, Mao's policies did lead to famine, which can't be wished away. Great Leap Forward, was a grand disaster.

Also, I agree, that this is no where close to genocide or something. But, a cold, and bloody stupidity.

For me, the CCP has more than redeemed itself. The only thing I have feud with is, that this whole topic, and its discussion is state sponsored and banned.

The event commonly called "great leap forward" is actually the second five year plan, while the plan only partially succeed in the final analysis, it is farther from "cold, and bloody stupidity" or "state sanctioned murder" as some of the posters here suggested.

The fundamental issue with these great leap forward arguments is that it is ignoring the root cause of the famine from 1959 to 1962. The root cause is a wide scale drought on main agricultural production area of China, something completely outside human control. Now, in an industrialized country like China today, during such disaster, food surplus from previous year will be release, water will be diverted through large scale artificial canals, dams and reservoirs, chemical fertilizer will be used to boost the yield of the remaining crop field. Monetary reserves can also be used to purchase food from abroad. Heck, weather satellite can be used to predict the incoming drought to give people time to make preparation, but the thing is, NONE OF THESE WERE AVAILABLE. This is the harsh reality of a pre-industrialized nation. Throughout human history, famine due to weather change is a common occurrence and it still happens today in areas that has not achieved certain level infrastructure.

The statement "Mao's policies did lead to famine" implies the famine can otherwise avoided when it is a natural disaster on a nation that did not have the means to avoid it no matter what you do. Could they do better? Maybe, but complete avoidance is not possible given the level of infrastructure and resource available to China back in the day. Just like today's India still can't avoid hunger in 200 million of its population or 1/6 of its population. It is not out of maliciousness. There are simply hard limitations on the resource available.

Now, moving on to the issue you stated, what are you talking about? The three year of famine is a major topic in PRC history and there are plenty of discussion on it. A simple search on google shows:

Google

The sources are mostly sources in China, from all level of credibility. It is also in all historic books, including textbooks for students of all ages. I don't know what made you believe the topic is banned. If you want to look for Chinese discussion, you need to search things in Chinese.

BTW, a lot of foreigners, even many Chinese members do not realize this. The second five year plan or the great leap forward is actually the exact reason why a similar famine has not struck China later. It is during the second five plan that China established its first generation of chemical industry, as well as discovering the Daqing oil fields which gave China a steady supply of fertilizer and fuel for farming instruments. While the Chinese agriculture industry did not true take off until more than a decade after this, but the accomplishment during the 2nd five year plan allowed China to meet the bottom line for feeding its population.

 

[cnleio]

this is how asshole Mao dealt with his people

in fact this is what communists have done everywhere.

In pic, left is the 1990s China Police uniform, right is the Armed Police ... in Mao's time there's no China Armed Police unit until to Deng's 1980s. So this pic out from 1990s, not Mao's 1960s.

When Indian like u open ur big mouth, at least learn something carefully.