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Why democracy doesn’t stand a chance in Pakistan

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Why democracy doesn’t stand a chance in Pakistan

A French diplomat once famously described Pakistan as “an army in search of a country.” In the country’s 62-year history, so frequently has the army seized power that it, along with the ISI intelligence service, is universally acknowledged as the real power centre in Pakistan.

Yet, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani’s comments on Thursday about the army acting like “a state within a state” that remained outside the authority of Parliament were sensational for the reason that civilian-military power tussles – of the sorts we’re witnessing today – happen more behind closed doors than out in the open.

Gilani appears to have resigned himself to the inevitability of his civilian government losing power – or of him and President Asif Ali Zardari being replaced. Earlier on Thursday, Gilani had accused the defence establishment of conspiring against the government — a charge that Army chief Gen Pervez Ashfaq Kayani has since denied. Gilani was also extraordinarily candid while addressing the National Assembly. Taunted by Opposition members about an admission by the defence ministry to the Supreme Court that it had no operational control over the army and the ISI, Gilani unburdened himself forcefully.

“Some institutions of the state,” he said, without taking the name of the army of the ISI, were historically addicted to act like “a state within a state”. And while earlier civilian governments may have been kosher with that, he found it unacceptable. He had completed 45 months in office — thereby establishing himself as Pakistan’s longest-serving elected prime minister — and did not feel the need to cling to office.

“If they say they are not under the ministry of defence, then this Parliament has no importance, this system has no importance, then you are not sovereign,” Gilani said. He was, he said, calling an end to “this slavery”.

As institutions that were being paid from the state exchequer, they were subservient to – and fully accountable to Parliament, Gilani thundered. “If somebody thinks they are not under the government, they are mistaken. They are under the government and they shall remain under the government, because we are the elected representatives of the people of Pakistan.”

Brave words those, but the reason why they are being greeted with cynicism today – rather than being seen as heroic — is that Gilani and Zardari, for all their recent pushback against the ISI-military overreach in policy matters, have yielded ground willfully and played by the unwritten rules of the games of Pakistani politics: after Allah, the Army.

To be fair, these rules were laid down long before Gilani took office. Except for a brief period following the 1971 loss to India in the Bangladesh war of independence when the humiliated military fell off the pedestal, there isn’t a time when the army did not dominate politics in Pakistan — either upfront (as when martial law was established) or from behind the scenes.

Although here have been rumours of Zardari and/or Gilani being replaced – they continued to yield more and more space to the ISI-military and gave them effective overlordship. Reuters

Even the civilian governments that sporadically came to office knew full well that they served only at the pleasure of the military-ISI establishment. Anyone who stepped out of the box paid for it — by being booted out or, worse, bumped off. If democracy hasn’t taken root in Pakistan, the military-ISI establishment is of course primarily to blame, but the civilian administrations too share a bit of it for feeding the monster and not challenging the narrative with an eye on day-to-day survival.

Soon after they came to power, Gilani and Zardari rewarded Kayani with a three-year extension, evidently in the belief that a mollified Army chief would buy them peace in the short term. And although that objective was never fully met – there have been constant rumours of Zardari and/or Gilani being replaced – they continued to yield more and more space to the ISI-military and gave them effective overlordship.

Even a patently administrative matter that has no strategic implications for Pakistan – such as granting Most Favoured Nation trading status to India – has been the subject of controversy, because the civilian government said it wanted to consult “all stakeholders” on the matter. Among those “stakeholders” is also the Pakistani military, which is it today more than a military machine: it runs an industrial conglomerate, valued by some estimates at over $15 billion, which covers everything from bakeries to banks to security services.

What changed all that was the memogate episode, soon after Osama bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad by US Navy seals, which showed that a nervous civilian government, which feared a military coup by a humiliated military-ISI establishment, sought US help to defang the ISI.

Ever since the details of a secret US memo, drafted by the then Pakistani ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani at Zardari’s behest and delivered to US officials, became known, the strains between the civilian government and the military-ISI complex were exposed. The military-ISI establishment has since extracted bloodprice by securing Haqqani’s resignation, but it wants more, much more: the heads of Zardari and Gilani.

Gilani told Parliament on Thursday that whereas the joint parliamentary committee, set up after bin Laden’s killing, was mandated to investigate the circumstances in which the terrorist came to be living in Abbottabad evidently with Army patronage, the military and the ISI were instead turning the heat on the civilian administration by inquiring why CIA operatives had been given visas to enter Pakistan.

In that sense, the ghost of bin Laden haunts Pakistani politics today, and it isn’t about to be exorcised anytime soon.

So why did Gilani speak out so forthrightly today? He perhaps reckons that his days in office are anyway numbered, so going down in style – by holding the banner of endangered democracy –plays well to his constituency. It invests him with the halo of martyrdom, and takes attention away from the colossal failures of the government on every front – from the economy to the security situation to Pakistan’s image on the world stage.

And the reason why Kayani says the army won’t stage a coup is because it doesn’t have to: along with the ISI, the army already sets the agenda from behind the throne.

If a change of faces is needed, it can easily engineer an election victory for an Imran Khan – and continue to be the power behind the throne.


All this holds important lessons for the Indian foreign policy establishment, which under the influence of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh‘s peacenik instincts, has an aman ki asha. To negotiate any concessions with the civilian administration out of a mistaken sense of solidarity is utter folly, when the real power lies elsewhere — and is cussed about waging its proxy war. Geopolitical considerations may require us to be seen to be talking to Pakistan, but there is great wisdom in restricting these talks to the cricketing fortunes of the two sides’ teams and other such anodyne subjects— until Pakistan sorts out its internal power imbalances first.

Why democracy doesn
 
Najam Sethi's view on democracy in Pakistan and the course it took over the years since independence:




 
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The current way of democracy the number of votes count. So if people are deprived and uneducated its easier to manipulate them by offering them short term gains.

Logically 1 well educated noble person is equal to a thug in this system ( as per opinion in vote ) which is the main loophole in the system.
 
Why democracy doesn’t stand a chance in Pakistan

A French diplomat once famously described Pakistan as “an army in search of a country.” In the country’s 62-year history, so frequently has the army seized power that it, along with the ISI intelligence service, is universally acknowledged as the real power centre in Pakistan.

The thing is, PA doesn't even have to make the effort of seizing power now in Pakistan.

They ARE THE POWER in Pakistan by default.

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

The current way of democracy the number of votes count. So if people are deprived and uneducated its easier to manipulate them by offering them short term gains.

Logically 1 well educated noble person is equal to a thug in this system ( as per opinion in vote ) which is the main loophole in the system.

Indeed and that's why I would prefer a system of weighted votes in a democracy.

However, even in its current form, the modern democracy is still better than the other forms of governance.
 
Since Indians don't know day to day dealings of our corrupt civilian leaders. Here is the quote of Areesh from another thread, which will help them understand, Why current Army chief General Kiyani is the most sensible army chief of PA.


There wasn't any threat from Army to this govt no matter how inept and pathetic it is. The fact is that it is a kind of blackmailing when ever someone tries to oppose this govt on corruption or scandals like memo gate. With a total failure to deliver to the people of Pakistan the only last chance for this govt is to keep whining about "powerful army" and expected military coup till the they complete their five years. Obviously in this manner it gets support of other political parties, media and liberal fascists and it's incompetence and corruption gets neglected in all this hue and cry.
 
All this holds important lessons for the Indian foreign policy establishment, which under the influence of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh‘s peacenik instincts, has an aman ki asha. To negotiate any concessions with the civilian administration out of a mistaken sense of solidarity is utter folly, when the real power lies elsewhere — and is cussed about waging its proxy war.
I disagree with the conclusion. The P.A. needs political cover for what it does. If Pakistan's civilian leaders were to negotiate a settlement with India that included an unconditional separation-of-forces agreement with a specific timetable I think the P.A. would be compelled to follow it, coup or no.
 
Democracy is an illusion

Democracy -description-different ancient and modern and what people recognise today as democracy may not be regarded tomorrow. Any person who is a citizen should be able to reach the highest office by merit etc popularity is important but not only component. (not poss in pakistan)


People can only be governed by their consent. I say this because no matter how large the security apparatus of a country relative to a countries population it can only be a small percentage. Take pakistan which has a standing military of Y out of a population Z. Police and other paramilitary are X%. Lets say a mere 25% number of people take to the streets that would equate to 45 million people coming on the streets. If 45 million people were to come to the streets what could the security apparatus do. Firstly it is likely that a number of the 45 million people will be family members of people who are in the security forces and secondly even the Pak Army armed with nukes what could they do start killing large numbers of their own people? Let nukes off within pakistan?

The best form of consent is voluntary-enlightened. However consent can be obtained or given by ignorance/lack of education. Consent can also be obtained by threats and coercion and bribery.

Western democracy-
France America UK- associated with capitalism
An american asked if they live in democracy in 1950 they would have stated they had democracy its the best etc yet blacks were not allowed to vote. In UK women were not allowed to vote in 1920. Simply people from today's modern democratic western countries would not recognise as fair or democratic their own countries as little as 50 years ago. Even today AIPAC as a disproportionate effect on result and at times it feels like american foreign policy is made in tel aviv not by or for american people

Democracy in chronology-
UK-Kings-Lords-Cromwell blood letting-suffragettes-voting age-can be army even today a very small number of people 20% have elected Cameron -an elected dictator?
France-Kings-revolution-blodd letting-dictators-parliament-research
America-colony revolution civil war blodd letting

Show weaknesses which the west simply refuse to acknowledge just as they didn't allow blacks to vote in america but thought they had democracy sometime ago

Communism-democracy-show strengths [west have good propaganda so they have already highlighted their good points and communisms bad points]

Separation of powers- only illusion

Interference- United Nations is not democratic.
Some countries in the name of human rights and democracy interfere. this is all and well admirable but who decides who is a rebel or a criminal. . Lets say in Libya the latest-country where we had interference who decided that the majority of libyans wanted Gadaffi out? After all "the rebels" couldn't seem to get out of benghazi without Natos help. Perhaps therefore no country has the right or should interfere in another country. The effect of education in libya high illiteracy when gadaffi took power-today a high number of graduates. If he had kept them the way our feudal keep some pakistanis he may not have suffered the fate he suffered?

Americans supported Mushy when they wanted and showed scant regard for pakistanis but when it didn't suit them to support him suddenly remembered that Mush wasn't a democrat and put international pressure for elections-its all a con

Pakistan is not at the stage we cant have democracy as defined by the west. ignorance illiteracy state all negative consents of the people...

alternatives-Military? Military with a civilian front? .... What checks and balances between judiciary- executive-army... how to eliminate feudal zardari shariff types

I think the best hope a civilian veneer eg Imran Khan- sovn body not parliament but a politbureau type of panel that includes judiciary army civilians-more on merit than elected
-do we need a new constitution??


In summery its all an illusion, all well in theory and in pakistan we need to go through a serious blood letting period to eliminate zardari feudal types which has some costs
 
Our country, our problems, our rules, all foreigners fukc off, especially indians and zionists. :)
 
Our country, our problems, our rules, all foreigners fukc off, especially indians and zionists. :)

too right how can americans tell us about democracy when their democracy has been subverted by AIPAC. American leaders dare not go for a crax without AIPAC approval cos they need lots of money that this jewish lobby aipac provides. Most americans are fed with propaganda like fox news which is also owned by aipac types- so they brainwash american people to thing that they have a choice.
 
It is not perfect, but the best we have.
 
too right how can americans tell us about democracy when their democracy has been subverted by AIPAC. American leaders dare not go for a crax without AIPAC approval cos they need lots of money that this jewish lobby aipac provides. Most americans are fed with propaganda like fox news which is also owned by aipac types- so they brainwash american people to thing that they have a choice.

Preach brother Preach, yes - they the ones have subverted countless democratic govt's lecturing us.

How many of us remember the other [B]9/11[/B] CIA back coup-de-ta.

 
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Our country, our problems, our rules, all foreigners fukc off, especially indians and zionists. :)

Yes, except you cannot do any of that unless it is your money too.

"He who pays the piper calls the tune!"

... and all one can do is dance to the tune. ;)
 

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