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New defense management ‘cooler’ to local fighter jet

Turkey’s new top defense procurement management is not as warm to the idea of designing and developing an indigenous fighter jet as it used to be, citing limits to technological capabilities.

A senior defense procurement official said a new assessment of the program, dubbed the TF-X, found that several aspects of the ambition may surpass local industrial capabilities.

“The program has not yet been shelved or restructured, but it should not surprise anyone if it is,” the official said on the condition of anonymity.

Turkey’s top procurement official, İsmail Demir, who took over from Murad Bayar in April, ordered a new assessment report on the program and concluded that a 100 percent Turkish fighter jet may be too ambitious, given Turkey’s local capabilities.

One government official said Demir, head of the Undersecretary for Defense Industries (SSM), has already briefed President-elect (Prime Minister) Recep Tayyip Erdoğan about the “potential infeasibility” of the program. Turkey has long claimed it would design, develop and manufacture its own fighter jet.

Erdoğan himself has boasted that the aircraft would make its maiden flight by 2023, the republic’s centennial.

Earlier this year, Turkey requested bids from global motor companies GE, Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney to present bids to power the future fighter jet.

Turkey’s aerospace industry and procurement authorities had decided to first choose a foreign-made engine for the indigenous fighter jet that the country’s local industry would develop and then finalize its design. But the new development may render the efforts for the engine suspended.

SSM had written to three engine makers — GE, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce — asking them to propose a suitable engine for the TF-X and that Ankara would most likely select an engine before the end of the year.

The decision on the engine would pave the way for the development phase of the program.
In June, Pratt & Whitney, at a high profile ceremony, inaugurated its Turkish partnership with local aviation company Kale to produce critical engine parts for the multinational F-35 (the Joint Strike Fighter). Kale Pratt & Whitney, the joint venture, will manufacture the parts of the F-135 and the engine for the F-35, at the plant in İzmir on Turkey’s Aegean coast.

Meanwhile, in May, Turkey officially decided to order the country’s first two F-35s. The order is for the first F-35A aircraft with Block-3F configuration under Low Rate Initial Production-10.

Turkey joined the multinational F-35 program as a consortium partner during the concept demonstration phase in 1999. Procurement officials say the country’s commitment to eventually acquire 100 F-35s remains.

Meanwhile, Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) had already finished the pre-conceptual design work and produced three draft models, one of which would become the first Turkish indigenous fighter jet.
“If Erdoğan is convinced that this is a dream project, he may order for its restructuring. A foreign partner or partners may be invited,” an industry official said.
New defense management ‘cooler’ to local fighter jet - DEFENSE UPDATE


@xxxKULxxx

Mate this guy is a full traitor... Everyone of us who is watching our defence industry knows this guy very well... This is not the only issue of him... He is always doing this... He is a pure traitor... Also Hürriyet (Doğan Media)



"A senior defense procurement official said"... A senior defence procurement official

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Mate this guy is a full traitor... Everyone of us who is watching our defence industry knows this guy very well... This is not the only issue of him... He is always doing this... He is a pure traitor... Also Hürriyet (Doğan Media)

View attachment 44212

"A senior defense procurement official said"... A senior defence procurement official siksin bu aq evladını...

Tipini siktiimin orospu çocuğuna bak...

1434_mb_file_1f010.jpeg

Yeah, i know he is dissing every program of ours....but Leggy was saying similar things ago...

Also, you know SSM's new head is very experienced in Aviation. I dunno let's wait and see. But let me say...this project is going very very slow... TF/X propgram started in 2010, 4 years passed we still couldn't decide on the pre-conceptual design... and Erdoğan says, first flight in 2023..

2010-2014 (4 years) couldn't decide on the pre-conceptual design.
2014-2023 (9 years) flying prototype

Mate, you know i love my country, respect our defence industry officials, like our defence industry companies... but let's be realistic.
 
Yeah, i know he is dissing every program of ours....but Leggy was saying similar things ago...

Also, you know SSM's new head is very experienced in Aviation. I dunno let's wait and see. But let me say...this project is going very very slow... TF/X propgram started in 2010, 4 years passed we still couldn't decide on the pre-conceptual design... and Erdoğan says, first flight in 2023..

2010-2014 (4 years) couldn't decide on the pre-conceptual design.
2014-2023 (9 years) flying prototype

Mate, you know i love my country, respect our defence industry officials, like our defence industry companies... but let's be realistic.

Bro. i am realistic but you are pessimistic... Forget me but Cabatli many times said systems of T/F-X are already ready... We have XP and capacity more then enough... We have money-power... We have desire and willing... Also if needed we can place defence investment in the 1st place for a while... Currently defence investments are at 3rd place after education and medical investments... We have courage not only with thousands of young brilliant engineers also we have successfully completed huge programs... Also however our engineers are so young they have superb XP... We have many scientists... They completed many hard programs... We have XP and courage from F-16 , F-35, HÜRKUŞ, T-129 and some more...

It's clear that this news is totally a BS... However this is a total BS let's talk about it... I'm sure SSM İsmet YILMAZ didn't say such a thing but let's analyse this... SSM has no balls or power or authority to say these to PM... Actually we clearly understood that this guy chosen there especially for T/F-X program... If he was thinking in this way he couldn't be a SSM... Let's say somehow he had chosen for SSM however İ. Demir is thinking in this bad way... Think about it... If he would say such a thing, PM would say "If you say so then **** off, we will put here someone who will do it"... This guy had been put there to do the job... If it was 'NO' he wouldn't be there... PM didn't put him there for hearing a word "I can't do that".... So many countries have fighter jets and we will do it also... No way... We don't lack about this T/F-X program...

And yes this is a long term project but process is working... And believe me you will see that project will go so fast after engine selection... Coz as you know T/F-X will be built according to the engine which is the most logical way to build our fighter jet... T/F-X will take shape according to engine so it's so normal that we can not see any official design... And be sure subsystem studies already started for T/F-X... I can even say our engineers @ TAI already started different unofficial designs for different engine alternatives...

So what lefts after design which is a thing that we can do ?.. Everything is ready...

I touched technical issues a bit but i'm sure Cabatli can convince you and others who have some worries...
 
Bro. i am realistic but you are pessimistic... Forget me but Cabatli many times said systems of T/F-X are already ready... We have XP and capacity more then enough... We have money-power... We have desire and willing... Also if needed we can place defence investment in the 1st place for a while... Currently defence investments are at 3rd place after education and medical investments... We have courage not only with thousands of young brilliant engineers also we have successfully completed huge programs... Also however our engineers are so young they have superb XP... We have many scientists... They completed many hard programs... We have XP and courage from F-16 , F-35, HÜRKUŞ, T-129 and some more...

It's clear that this news is totally a BS... However this is a total BS let's talk about it... I'm sure SSM İsmet YILMAZ didn't say such a thing but let's analyse this... SSM has no balls or power or authority to say these to PM... Actually we clearly understood that this guy chosen there especially for T/F-X program... If he was thinking in this way he couldn't be a SSM... Let's say somehow he had chosen for SSM however İ. Demir is thinking in this bad way... Think about it... If he would say such a thing, PM would say "If you say so then **** off, we will put here someone who will do it"... This guy had been put there to do the job... If it was 'NO' he wouldn't be there... PM didn't put him there for hearing a word "I can't do that".... So many countries have fighter jets and we will do it also... No way... We don't lack about this T/F-X program...

And yes this is a long term project but process is working... And believe me you will see that project will go so fast after engine selection... Coz as you know T/F-X will be built according to the engine which is the most logical way to build our fighter jet... T/F-X will take shape according to engine so it's so normal that we can not see any official design... And be sure subsystem studies already started for T/F-X... I can even say our engineers @ TAI already started different unofficial designs for different engine alternatives...

So what lefts after design which is a thing that we can do ?.. Everything is ready...

I touched technical issues a bit but i'm sure Cabatli can convince you and others who have some worries...
i think no need to take this " burak bekdil" serious ,its known he isnt an expert on these matters,but just a "columnist" . If he was an engineer,or academician that would be a text to take serious in my opinion. He is just mentioning about some posibbilities and some thoughts raised from SSM.

To talk about our industrial capacity ,or technological development ,or level in academic institutes . I guess we gained enough ability by upgrade of F-16 and co production of it in TAI facilities, Hurkus gave us ability and application of engineering for manned flying objects.
I think we have enough academician to take role in initial phase of TF-X ,to be consultant and manage conceptual design with sub-systems. A collaboration might be considered with a foreign institute on this,as i posted it an agreement between MAI and ITU, where MAI is one of the best aviation institute in Russia,a place MIG and Su's come out,and consulted.

i dont agree on the statement about "conceptual design havent been finished within 4 years, how come 9 years would be enough for development of Figther prototype". because IMO , corresponding companies have began to study on fighter , to do R&D and develop subsystems ,also to do this its not needed to achieve a detailed design, R&D can begin with a known idea , since subsystems and requirements of a product is known since beginning. The matter will take long time in indigeneous fighter development is just R&D on many thing, to have critical parts provided by indigeneous sources since we have lots of points we didnt get experience.
To give an example , detail design of milgem get into phase after 2003 , then co production and design accepted by German company on ToT for minehunters and detailed design of milgem is concluded,production began. And wasnt there any study about milgem earlier than 2003? There was .. Many student, research staff sent to abroad to work on subjects related to milgem , engineers sent to abroad design departments (to companies where ToT is gained) , in our country some critical calculations,and engineering abilities gained ,so those would be done indigenously.
I have a belief on we will have a fighter prototype flying , probably with a engine manufacturer joined from abroad , why do we need a 100 pct indigenous fighter ?, its already being talked around a 100 pct indigeneous thing is impossible. We will need a partner for engine for sure ,and some non critical parts will be bought from abroad. But it will be our jet ,our design,with our radar, our avionics, our Combat management system,our production.

So , no need to say something with bad words to him , it wont affect his honour, but those words will affect opinions about you. Had better you delete them.:)
 
So , no need to say something with bad words to him , it wont affect his honour, but those words will affect opinions about you. Had better you delete them.

Bro. thx for your honest advice but the thing he is doing is not just 'mistake'... If it was just a mistake i wouldn't call these names... But this guy is a traitor... There is another called Leyla... These 2 are same Sh!t... I can not forgive a traitor unless i see he/she changes and wait for sometime if he/she is honest... These 2 are throwing these bullsh!ts & lies deliberately, sneakingly and systematically to harm us... :guns:

Anyways let's forget these 2 SoBs... :angel:
 
Bro. thx for your honest advice but the thing he is doing is not just 'mistake'... If it was just a mistake i wouldn't call these names... But this guy is a traitor... There is another called Leyla... These 2 are same Sh!t... I can not forgive a traitor unless i see he/she changes and wait for sometime if he/she is honest... These 2 are throwing these bullsh!ts & lies deliberately, sneakingly and systematically to harm us... :guns:

Anyways let's forget these 2 SoBs... :angel:
Those 2 will keep just talking,and there are more people thinking in that away ,if you ask them about a possible indigenous submarine they would be talking same too ,and they will get their answer when projects are done :D
achieving a target isnt so much about resources or knowledge , there is another factor nowadays that is called project management ,a matter SSM is handling so good compared to her rivals in world, i believe SSM will manage progress of TF-X well and we will achieve it, they will prepare plan ( guess they are already prepared it ) will give tasks to companies to take role , give tasks to universities and encourage companies for research with universities and we will get the goal :D .
There are too many things achieved , and they wouldnt say - yes we can do -, when PM asked them about possibility. I have read this new,but even didnt take it serious when i realized its not much different than what i can read in here, written by anynomous person :D
 
It says it will be a worldwide center... Both for civil and military...

Also i think this center will get bigger with Sikorsky helis, domestic helicopter, T-129 ... Maybe Hürkuş, T/F-X too... Maybe more like F-35, F-16... A400-M.... We have capacity for that kind of a huge center... But this is my guess only..
 

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