Top 10 greatest tactical and strategic masterpieces.

Discussion in 'Military History & Strategy' started by AUSTERLITZ, Feb 21, 2011.

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  1. AUSTERLITZ
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    AUSTERLITZ PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Er....i'm really sry about writing the huns..that was a rubbish mistake.More like nomadic steppe tribes,i had read in a documentary 'similar to the huns that plagued the roman empire 'and that somehow stayed in my mind.As it is i'm a little short on chinese military history as i admitted earlier.Apologies.
    As for the incident i meant the deserting of the walls and the opening of its gates by Wu sangyui to the manchus,thus dooming the empire in 1644.

    @saad4566666

    Please get ur facts straight.....this was hardly the first application of trenches being used.

    If ur saying this was done far before the westerners u are wrong.
    The romans regularly dug trenches,and used them to win victories.
    Examples

    Battle of charonea - sulla crushes a mithridatic army
    Battle of orchomenus.
    Battle of alesia[in conjunction with ditches and other field fortifications]
    Battle of Dara.


    As for the rest of ur post i found it perplexing...who's paranoia?
    U say u took european history way back and yet seem to be ignorant on roman battle tactics...?
    Who and why will start a flame war ?U refer to a book?elaborate?

    As to the battle of trench..it was more like a siege.It was siege defense ingenously and very well defended..but we are here dealing with battles my friend...not sieges.

    As for ur post no offense but for the most part i didn't understand who ur ire was directed at?
  2. Joe Shearer
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    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    Why does everyone make the exact same spelling mistake about this battle?
    Anyway, while it is in my top list as well, what's always worried me is whether it could really be called tactically brilliant.


    I WAS JUST KIDDING, FOR HEAVENS' SAKES; DON'T TAKE EVERY JOKEY BIT SERIOUSLY. CHILL, COMRADE; NO OFFENCE GIVEN, NONE TAKEN.
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  3. Joe Shearer
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    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    @CardSharp
    @Austerlitz

    I wish we could go back to the earlier thread and finish it off for the sake of good order. In addition, I have been developing a theory about the development of military tactics, which closely relates military problems in one era with their tactical solutions in the next. Some of this has been published in private mail; more is due, but the outline in my post here (referring to Alexander and the Macedonian formation) is the framework on which I will build.

    Please confirm, btw, that you are receiving personal emails.

    It seems that there is an uninterrupted chain of challenge and response right from the Greek hoplites until modern times. I would like to lay out the logical development and get your comments on those.

    Regards,
  4. AUSTERLITZ
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    AUSTERLITZ PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Ok,sry yeah i left out rossbach..thatw as a mistake.

    On adolphus u mean lutzen?i think that was too bloody and inconclusive to be a great victory.
    Blenheim admittedly should be in the top 10.

    Now onto aurestadt is not a napoleonic battle at all...it is fought by davout.Jena is napoleon's battle..he had much more men in that battle against a secondary prussian army so not a great victory even if the statistics were a total rout on teh prussian side.And this isn't tired napoleon...1806 campaign is napoleon at his very peak...the decline begins after eylau.

    No lepanto/salamis/trafalgar as they are naval encounters.

    Dresden i added because though outnumbered it was a briliantly conducted defense followed by as wift attack that caused like 400000 allied losses to french 10000...the numbers alone were quite decisive even though purely on manuevering u are right not on par with his other battles.But still i would reckon top 25 for sure.

    Come now freidland WAS a great victory it killed the fourth coalition...ur being too pessimistic here.
    Also i have not been able to add the six days campaign unable to decide whether to add it to battle or campaign it is imo after austerlitz napoleon's best.It would definitely be top 10 in whatevr category..but it doesn't fit into either.Would be best described as operations.

    Great piece on hydaspes.....but one thing is problematic the results show porus lost most of his army so a draw is perhaps a little controversial.
    I think the massive macedonian losses were mostly the cause of repeated suicidal indian elephant charges.Yes i think it was not a set piece battle..or didn't go the way alexander wanted it to go....but it was a macedonian victory in the end.
    Here a great video on hydaspes.
    Battle of Hydaspes River, 326 BC » The Art of Battle
    Check this video and page.The comments are somewhat similar to urs so ur not the only one with'doubts'.Also check that site it is downright awesome...if u haven't already.
    I judged my best battles partly on their being exmpales of one or more of the seven basic manuevres of battle.
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  5. AUSTERLITZ
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    AUSTERLITZ PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    The seven basic manuevres of battle.then i explain which battles i have put in my list as examples of each type.


    Tactics Tutorial » The Art of Battle

    Go to this page for the illustrations..very good site.

    Now on my list..

    Cannae is of course the quintiessential double envelopment manuevre.
    Walaja is a variation of the double envelopment which was aided by poor recon and fortunate terrain but again the only other example of a 'true' double envelopment.Considered the most difficult manuevre in battle when naumbers are at parity or lower.

    Pharsalus is the best example of a single flank attack.

    Sedan and ulm are the best examples of an indirect approach.France 1940 is a combination of indirect approach and double envelopment in a strategic level.

    Dresden is a prime example of attack from a defensive position move.

    Blenheim is the great example of penetration of the centre,gaugamela is a modified version of this with elemnets of the oblique order included.

    All of fredericks' battles and leuctra are oblique order victories.

    Trasimene is the greatest ambush.

    The battle of charonea won by philip 2 is a example of a feigned withdrawal followed by pentration of the centre.

    The battle of freidland is an example of single flank attack.

    continued..
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  6. Gold1010
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    Gold1010 FULL MEMBER

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    some people here just post there people/religion leaders the indian members here seem to be more unbiased

    anyway , hannibal comes to mind what about Soviet invasion of Manchuria?

    im sure the mongols did great 2
  7. Joe Shearer
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    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    I will confine myself only to the battle of the Hydaspes, as the others need a very detailed response - where they need a response; in most cases, my prefererence follows your judgement very closely.

  8. Joe Shearer
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    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    If you look at post 20 immediately before yours, you will find confirmation from another knowledgeable person that Hannibal was hot stuff. That poster, Austerlitz, has listed two of Hannibal's battles, Cannae and Trasimene, as classics. It is difficult to disagree with that.

    About the Mongols, both Chengiz himself, and his brilliant general, Subotai, have been mentioned in the correspondence. In general, the commanders of the Islamic Conquest should be mentioned as well: the difficulty is that their names are usually proposed by those who do not have the slightest clue about why those commanders prevailed. Instead, we get strange sentences thoroughly steeped in religious enthusiam and with an absence of any analytical logic.

    Why don't you fill out your own list of ten? That might be fun to discuss.
  9. 500
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    500 PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Brilliant posts! Thanks. Why no one thanked it yet? :undecided:
  10. Joe Shearer
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    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    I think most people posting would like to stick to one-liners of the "You stupid Indians! We have nothing to do with you and never did. We have existed for (fill in the number of millennia of choice here) and don't need you telling us what is our culture. Everything in the Indus Valley is our culture, and it arose by itself, grew into the glorious religion that we brought along, and gave ourselves, so it's cool."

    Doesn't leave much time for analysis or for military history. But then, that kind of rabid fanboy never cared for this dull stuff anyway.

    I have a brilliant article by Major Amin on the martial races of India. Think I'd get a reaction if I got the Major's permission and posted it? No way, Jose; it'd be the loser of the century, because it doesn't say what the fanboy wants it to say.
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  11. GodlessBastard
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    GodlessBastard FULL MEMBER

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    If it hasn't been mentioned yet, please add Sherman's "March to the Sea" into the list of strategic masterpieces.

    Also, can you please PM me the Major's article, Joe? I'm a sucker for anything related to Indian history.
  12. Capt.Popeye
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    Capt.Popeye ELITE MEMBER

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    Yes Joe, like a great deal of stuff that Maj. A.H. Amin has written, its a great exposition. Has appeared in Cataphract and numerous other places, but not many people like to read it. Pity.
  13. Joe Shearer
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    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    In fact, I've been grubbing around and have scads more information on India-China 62 (details of the battle at Walong, of Chushul and so on; should I put it up there?
  14. Capt.Popeye
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    Capt.Popeye ELITE MEMBER

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    Ah,so.
    Please do. Dumbo that i am, never thought of it. That would indeed be great.
  15. Alternative
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    Alternative FULL MEMBER

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