What's new

THE END OF IRAQ: The Ugly Dilemma in Ramadi

HRK

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
14,108
Reaction score
122
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
THE END OF IRAQ: The Ugly Dilemma in Ramadi

Following the fall of Ramadi to ISIS this weekend, Iraq is launching a counter attack spearheaded by Shi’a militias that had previously been uninvolved in the fighting. The Wall Street Journal reports:

Officials from two of the most powerful Shiite militias on Monday said their fighters were launching attacks on Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, in a bid to restore government control over the city. Their objective is to prevent Islamic State—which now controls Ramadi, Fallujah and Mosul—from advancing east toward the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, or south toward Shiite holy sites.

By all accounts, the Iraqi Army, or ISF, collapsed in the defense of Ramadi, just as it has time and again against ISIS previously, abandoning arms and armor to the enemy as it fled. The Shi’a militias are a more feared fighting force, and they outnumber the ISF by a significant margin. They had been held back, however, because Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, lies in the heart of Sunni Iraq—and the Shi’a militias have been repeatedly, credibly accused of perpetrating sectarian massacres. And there is also the inconvenient fact that many if not most of them have strong links to Iran.

Now the Obama Administration, not to say the Iraqi government, is on the horns of an ugly dilemma. If Ramadi is not recaptured, Sunni Iraq will have slipped to ISIS, and all the king’s horses and all the king’s men may never be able to put Iraq back together again. On the other hand, if the U.S. backs the militias’ advance, it may well be party to ethnic bloodshed that will put the killings after the fall of Tikrit to pale. Thus, even if the militas do retake Ramadi the methods they employ could so deeply antagonize the non-ISIS-supporting elements of the Sunni population as to have the same result: no more Iraq.

While publicly the Administration and the Pentagon have started to sound a bit like Baghdad Bob, Administration officials have anonymously begun voicing their unease with the situation, in one instance describing Ramadi as a “powder keg” noting that there is a potential for things to go “very, very badly.”

And while another anonymous insider said “You got to fight with the army you got, and this is the army they got,” nonetheless that doesn’t mean you’ll necessarilywin with “the army you got.” There is no guarantee that the militias will be successful. ISIS’ tactics in taking the city were very sophisticated, including using asandstorm to negate U.S.-provided air superiority. And as a New York Times report details today, the group’s finances are in better shape than previously thought; fond Western hopes that ISIS will collapse under its own weight, which have been repeatedly raised and then dashed, look dimmer than ever.

Right now Iraq isn’t winning. And the U.S. needs a strategy that can actually deal with that.
 
it's sad that iraqis don't have the will and morale to fight off these invaders.
why does it seems like ME militaries are just bad at tactics and motivating their men to fight and die for their country and loved ones??

what happened to huge battles and tactics like those of the Iran Iraq war?? did Iraq lose the will to fight and die after Saddam was disposed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War
 
Last edited:
It is time for countries like Pakistan to intervene. Everyone talks about how the US needs to get involved, but we fail to recognize that when an organisation like ISIS takes over a piece of land, the countries which are in the biggest trouble are predominantly Muslim ones. Afghanistan is a good example of how a single conflict turned into a nightmare for the Muslim world. Thousands of Arabs, Central Asians, Pakistanis, etc. arrived to fight against the Soviet Union and when it collapsed, they established numerous training camps to create battle-hardened militants. Afghanistan resulted in the creation of the Global Islamist Movement. There are now Jihadis actively warring in Chechnya, Bosnia, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Pakistan, Philippines, and Nigeria, solely because of a war in Afghanistan. The same thing will happen if IS is allowed to continue to capture land.
 
It is time for countries like Pakistan to intervene. Everyone talks about how the US needs to get involved, but we fail to recognize that when an organisation like ISIS takes over a piece of land, the countries which are in the biggest trouble are predominantly Muslim ones. Afghanistan is a good example of how a single conflict turned into a nightmare for the Muslim world. Thousands of Arabs, Central Asians, Pakistanis, etc. arrived to fight against the Soviet Union and when it collapsed, they established numerous training camps to create battle-hardened militants. Afghanistan resulted in the creation of the Global Islamist Movement. There are now Jihadis actively warring in Chechnya, Bosnia, Egypt, Algeria, Yemen, Pakistan, Philippines, and Nigeria, solely because of a war in Afghanistan. The same thing will happen if IS is allowed to continue to capture land.


not Pakistan, but Iran should.

two front war against ISIS. Iran coming from the East and SAA/YPG pushing from the West. corner the rats and block off their escape route through Turkey :agree:

Iraq working with Iran,Syria, and Russia is the only way they can survive.

but can the sunni population deal with that.

that clearly will single Iraq is pro-Iran
 
not Pakistan, but Iran should.

two front war against ISIS. Iran coming from the East and SAA/YPG pushing from the West. corner the rats and block off their escape route through Turkey :agree:

Iraq working with Iran,Syria, and Russia is the only way they can survive.

but can the sunni population deal with that.

that clearly will single Iraq is pro-Iran

As long as countries like Iran are operating in Iraq, it will never reach peace because Iranians will always promote their own form of barbarism. I don't know about you, but I remember in the 2000's, I used to hear reports of Shia death squads running around slaughtering Sunnis and driving them out of Shia majority cities. This switching between a Shia ISIS then a Sunni ISIS won't do Iraq any good.
 
What ugly dilemma ? It's all working out just fine , "they" are busy killing each other , the plan is working
 
As long as countries like Iran are operating in Iraq, it will never reach peace because Iranians will always promote their own form of barbarism. I don't know about you, but I remember in the 2000's, I used to hear reports of Shia death squads running around slaughtering Sunnis and driving them out of Shia majority cities. This switching between a Shia ISIS then a Sunni ISIS won't do Iraq any good.


it's a lose lose either way. ISIS is slaughtering Sunni,Shia, Christian you name it. have you not seen the videos of ISIS death squads???

I rather have a Iraq,Syria under the mullahs than ISIS and it's so caliph baghdadi
 
two front war against ISIS. Iran coming from the East and SAA/YPG pushing from the West. corner the rats and block off their escape route through Turkey :agree:

We have not entered yet and we are under media attack by the west already. I don't think it's a good idea to enter Sunni areas of Iraq where the population tends to favor ISIS over Iran thanks to their extreme sectarian views, let them free their own land sacrificing their own sons if they want. But whoever asks us, we are happy to help. Shias, Kurds and Iraqi gov asked for it and we helped.
As long as countries like Iran are operating in Iraq, it will never reach peace because Iranians will always promote their own form of barbarism. I don't know about you, but I remember in the 2000's, I used to hear reports of Shia death squads running around slaughtering Sunnis and driving them out of Shia majority cities. This switching between a Shia ISIS then a Sunni ISIS won't do Iraq any good.

That lie doesn't work anymore, you guys should come up with new ones. Even if there were incidents, it's nowhere near those 'Sunni death squads' as you like to call it. And btw, there is no such thing as 'Shia ISIS', no matter how hard they try, Shias will never succeed in creating a monster like ISIS. They just can't. Neither they can create groups like Boko Haram, Taliban or Al-Qaeda, it's not Shia's expertise.
 
That lie doesn't work anymore, you guys should come up with new ones. Even if there were incidents, it's nowhere near those 'Sunni death squads' as you like to call it. And btw, there is no such thing as 'Shia ISIS', no matter how hard they try, Shias will never succeed in creating a monster like ISIS. They just can't. Neither they can create groups like Boko Haram, Taliban or Al-Qaeda, it's not Shia's expertise.

A lie? Look at what sectarian groups on both sides have turned Iraq into and have some shame. Tensions like these aren't build in a day.
 
Sadr's Mahdi Army is trained and armed by Iran. Mahdi Army should be able to exterminate salafist IS scums. Seal the border with Saudi Arabia. Let not a soul in.
 
Last edited:
A lie? Look at what sectarian groups on both sides have turned Iraq into and have some shame. Tensions like these aren't build in a day.

'Sectarianism' started when suicide bombings started in 2003, right after U.S invasion, when there was no Maliki or any other person you choose to blame, and you know who started it. Ironically, Shias had been ruled, oppressed and killed by a maniac, Saddam, and yet after he was overthrown, it was terrorist groups like ISI or AQ which started killing Shias. When a group is hell bent on destroying you, you won't sit idle. Actually, Iraqi Shias showed too much tolerance and look what happened now.

Shias don't go into Sunni areas of Iraq to blow themselves up, now please tell me if the opposite is also correct.
 
'Sectarianism' started when suicide bombings started in 2003, right after U.S invasion, when there was no Maliki or any other person you choose to blame, and you know who started it. Ironically, Shias had been ruled, oppressed and killed by a maniac, Saddam, and yet after he was overthrown, it was terrorist groups like ISI or AQ which started killing Shias. When a group is hell bent on destroying you, you won't sit idle. Actually, Iraqi Shias showed too much tolerance and look what happened now.

I don't want to put a sectarian twist to this because I know this isn't about Shias or Sunnis. What I do know is that Iran has been using Shias in Iraq as cannon fodder and have deliberately tried to start uprisings through them, way before the invasion of Iraq by the United States.
 
I don't want to put a sectarian twist to this because I know this isn't about Shias or Sunnis. What I do know is that Iran has been using Shias in Iraq as cannon fodder and have deliberately tried to start uprisings through them, way before the invasion of Iraq by the United States.

No, you don't seem to know anything about Iraq. For people like you, anything Shias around the world do, is an Iranian plot, even if they rise up against a dictator who was killing them in mass numbers. For you, there is zero chance that they must have been actually fed up with that maniac. So, let's leave it here, I'm pretty familiar with mindsets like that of yours.
 
No, you don't seem to know anything about Iraq. For people like you, anything Shias around the world do, is an Iranian plot, even if they rise up against a dictator who was killing them in mass numbers. For you, there is zero chance that they must have been actually fed up with that maniac. So, let's leave it here, I'm pretty familiar with mindsets like that of yours.

You've got to be kidding me. From day one, Khomeini made it clear he wanted an Islamic theocracy in Iraq and actively supported Iraqi Shias who wanted Iraq to become an Islamic State.
 
it's sad that iraqis don't have the will and morale to fight off these invaders.
why does it seems like ME militaries are just bad at tactics and motivating their men to fight and die for their country and loved ones??

what happened to huge battles and tactics like those of the Iran Iraq war?? did Iraq lose the will to fight and die after Saddam was disposed?
Typical American oblivious to history. Iraqi army was disbanded after fall of Saddam Hussein, this army is something else entirely. It has new officers, new recruits, new doctrines, new everything else.
Coalition Provisional Authority Order 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think it's a good idea to enter Sunni areas of Iraq where the population tends to favor ISIS over Iran thanks to their extreme sectarian views,
Thanks to what? Thanks to Maliki's disgustingly sectarian government, which sidelined the Sunnis, you meant?

That lie doesn't work anymore, you guys should come up with new ones. Even if there were incidents, it's nowhere near those 'Sunni death squads' as you like to call it.
There ARE incidents. US is just covering them up because it is the lesser evil. Shiite population is complaining about their kids being conscripted through force and Sunni population complaining about abuses.
 

Back
Top Bottom