The Egyptian/Israeli War 1973-First Victory of Arabs against Israel

[Jaanbaz]

Egyptian Army is the only competent army in all of Arab World.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Egyptians were never driven back from the east side of the canal, Israelis drew back 35 km to the east side of the canal to avoid certain destruction. All their forces that crossed to the western side of the canal were surrounded. and even their claim of surrounding the 3rd Egyptian army were false , since they were themselves surrounded, and the egyptian 3rd army advanced in the Sinai while they were claiming that.
Please go read this thread and clean your mouth from its bad breath.

1973 Arab-Israeli conflict: The Truth once and for all

Right so egypt remained in the sinai...and all the interviews given by egypt's top officers lamenting how their failed advance from under sam umbrella led to the blunder that cost them, their initial gain was false.Both the egyptian commander in chief and chief of staff shazli have been on camera confirming this..we have seen israeli tanks crossing the canal in footage and yet u delude urself...well.

Egyptian Army is the only competent army in all of Arab World.

Along with jordan.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Along with jordan.

Advantages of being ruled by half British King.

 

[punit]

Egyptians were never driven back from the east side of the canal, Israelis drew back 35 km to the east side of the canal to avoid certain destruction. All their forces that crossed to the western side of the canal were surrounded. and even their claim of surrounding the 3rd Egyptian army were false , since they were themselves surrounded, and the egyptian 3rd army advanced in the Sinai while they were claiming that.
Please go read this thread and clean your mouth from its bad breath.

1973 Arab-Israeli conflict: The Truth once and for all

yeah ! all wars were won by Arabs .. yet Israel is there !!

 

[The SC]

Right so egypt remained in the sinai...and all the interviews given by egypt's top officers lamenting how their failed advance from under sam umbrella led to the blunder that cost them, their initial gain was false.Both the egyptian commander in chief and chief of staff shazli have been on camera confirming this..we have seen israeli tanks crossing the canal in footage and yet u delude urself...well.

Well, tell this to the Israeli officials who admited their defeat. I provided you with facts, a credible article, and you keep deluding yourself with nothing to sustain your delusions.

 

[Frogman]

Right so egypt remained in the sinai...and all the interviews given by egypt's top officers lamenting how their failed advance from under sam umbrella led to the blunder that cost them, their initial gain was false.

The push beyond surface to air coverage did not cost the Egyptian side any territory in the Sinai, at first. However, what it created was an area of weakness which the Israelis could exploit, which they did.

This eventually lead to the encirclement of the Third Army. However, that Army and the Second Army still held their positions in the Sinai and were not pushed back by the Israelis to the west bank of the Suez Canal.

Both the egyptian commander in chief and chief of staff shazli have been on camera confirming this..we have seen israeli tanks crossing the canal in footage and yet u delude urself...well.

What they confirmed was the "Thaghra", again the area of weakness which the Israelis exploited. Although the Third Army was encircled it was not crippled, the Second Army was still fully operational and there was an abundance of reserves on the west bank. The Israelis had failed to make any meaningful advances in the west bank, and they themselves were in a position of weakness.

yeah ! all wars were won by Arabs .. yet Israel is there !!

There was only one war to actually destroy Israel, and that was the one of its independence. Be childish elsewhere.

 

[Slayer786]

It seems everyone is delusional here. No one is going to agree to others point. Everyone will believe that they are in the right and the member against him does not want to admit it.

But whats the point? Learn from the past and use the information wisely next time there is a war. Which is very certain if we go by the prevailing situation.

 

[The SC]

It seems everyone is delusional here. No one is going to agree to others point. Everyone will believe that they are in the right and the member against him does not want to admit it.

But whats the point? Learn from the past and use the information wisely next time there is a war. Which is very certain if we go by the prevailing situation.

Yes brother you are right, but not everyone is disillusion, not when you base your knowledge on facts studied very thoroughly on a very long period of time.

Israel is a myth, its army is a myth and its achievements are myths.

In 1948, the Brits killed more than 40 000 armed Palestinians before handing the keys of Jerusalem to The Jewish Hagana and Stern terrorist groups (who were supposedly terrorizing the Brits by bombings in Jerusalem hotels). That is from where the term terrorism stems from.
There is a huge book called "O jerusalem",that dicusses this topic in detail.

In 1956, the Brits and the French attacked Egypt over the Suez canal matter and attributed the victory to the Israelis. it is a well known fact in history.

In 1967, Egypt had the most powerful air force and armed forces in general in the middle east, Abdel Nasser could- if he used the Israeli tactics of "preemptive" strikes- wipe out Israelis forces and force a political solution, but instead he wanted them to know that he was much stronger -rather than attack- to achieve the political solution. it was a bit naive on his part, since although he scared them, he did not think about the western support they have got. and Cairo was full of western spies who took in minute details all the names of the Egyptian pilots and their schedules. (you can read : "the woman who governed Egypt" about these events), Than they gave all the satellite photos of the Egyptian airports to the Israelis and western pilots that have especially trained for that mission by western instructors and pilots who took part of those raids.
As you can see, not in one of these instances did Israel fight a war against the Arabs on its own per say.

In 1973, the Arabs armed with this knowledge, knew how to deceive the west including its puppet Israel and got them by surprise. In this way the Arabs could achieve the unbelievable in western and Israeli minds, the crossing of the Barlev line, one of the most sophisticated barriers on earth with gaz pipelines built into it to pour in gaz into the canal and burn anything or anyone attempting to cross it. For the Egyptians to have defeated this barrier in a genius work and a fate of its own, regardless of the ensuing war (actually the operation was called "spark", meaning it was as limited in scope as a spark, which is very far from total war or real "Fire", just to show you the scope of the 1973 attack and put you in the real context of things).
For the ensuing war, you can go to this thread for truth and reality.
1973 Arab-Israeli conflict: The Truth once and for all

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The push beyond surface to air coverage did not cost the Egyptian side any territory in the Sinai, at first. However, what it created was an area of weakness which the Israelis could exploit, which they did.

This eventually lead to the encirclement of the Third Army. However, that Army and the Second Army still held their positions in the Sinai and were not pushed back by the Israelis to the west bank of the Suez Canal.



What they confirmed was the "Thaghra", again the area of weakness which the Israelis exploited. Although the Third Army was encircled it was not crippled, the Second Army was still fully operational and there was an abundance of reserves on the west bank. The Israelis had failed to make any meaningful advances in the west bank, and they themselves were in a position of weakness.

What i replied to was that the israeli army never crossed the canal assertion,Israel recovered sinai by military force..u see in the ceasefire egyptian army had retreat back as its position in the east bank had become hopeless..the abundant reserves ur talking abt are infantry..not armour.Counterattack by remaining armour reserves were destroyed in an ambush.What is right is that israelis too failed to make any headway in the west bank and were repulsed at towns of suez.Thsi doesn't mean what original posts claimed israelis never crossed the canal.

 

[500]

even their claim of surrounding the 3rd Egyptian army were false , since they were themselves surrounded

General Saad el Shazly (Egypt's Chief of staff in 1973):

And after. On October 30, when the plight of Third Army was desperate, the Egyptian newspapers appeared with banner headlines: "Our forces are in complete control of the West Bank of the Canal between Deversoir and Suez Town" and: "The Third Army is Receiving Supplies in the Normal Fashion." The whole world was being told of the encirclement of Third Army except the wives, mothers, sisters and sweethearts of the men suffering out there. Of course, rumors began to circulate. It was a catastrophe too big to hide.

I had lost almost 11 pounds in six weeks. But how could I relax while the 45,000 officers and men of Third Army were cut off?

25 Oct 1100 hours: A meeting of the Armed Forces Supreme Council, the first since the outbreak of war. ...The main topic was, of course, how to open the road to Third Army. But though everyone spoke with passion, nobody could come up with a realistic plan.

"My men and I are ready to die to open the road to the Third Army," Qabiyl (Brigadier of the 4th Armored division) said. "But I have to say I do not think we will succeed. And if our division is destroyed the road to Cairo will be wide open."

To stay alive the Third Army needed rather over 150 tons of supplies a day. The vast column of soft-skinned vehicles needed to carry such quantitiies would simply be an added burden on the tank crews of 4th Division as they fought their way down the road.

More than 10000 Israeli soldiers died in this war

2,527 Israelis were killed in this war.

Egypt got their land back from Israel

9 years after the war.

 

[The SC]

Meanwhile, Matt's entire paratroop brigade had crossed the canal by 3 a.m. on October 16–five hours behind schedule. With a foothold established, both Sharon and Adan prepared to move the bulk of their divisions over the canal, but the night's battle was to affect the Israeli plans. Sharon believed that securing the Chinese Farm and Missouri positions was less important than the actual canal crossing, and to that end he downplayed both the losses and the intensity of the fighting around the farm in his combat report. The Israeli Command, however, questioned the value of the operation and was appalled by even Sharon's lowered figures. Dayan proposed not only extracting the paratroopers but also giving up the idea of crossing the canal altogether. In response to those suggestions, General Gonen, with Bar-Lev in agreement, stated: Had we known that this would happen in advance, we probably would not have initiated the crossing. But now that we are across we shall carry it through to the bitter end. In an attempt to minimize its losses, the Israeli Command ordered that no more tanks or men were to cross the canal until a suitable bridge was built. Sharon was ordered to clear Chinese Farm and Missouri, while Adan kept the Akavish road open.

Sharon, who believed that his breakthrough on the west bank needed to be exploited at all costs, was not pleased with the new orders. He went over Gonen's head to complain directly to Bar-Lev, who denied Sharon's request to continue his advance. What had been created, according to Dayan, was an absence of mutual trust. Sharon later questioned the perception of his superior officers: Am I surrounded or surrounding? Danny Matt is encircling the Egyptians but according to you they're encircling him. Amnon [Reshef] is surrounding the enemy–but as you put it, the enemy is surrounding him…when will you finally understand that in mobile desert war, at one stage you encircle, and at another you are encircled?

Whatever Sharon believed, it was quite clear that the Israeli forces on the east bank were in genuine danger of being encircled. The Tirtur road was still closed, due to the Egyptian presence at Chinese Farm, and a strong counterattack soon closed the Akavish route. I suddenly saw four tanks burning within seconds, Adan said. The column was caught by surprise….It was now clear that the Akavish road was totally blocked. Adan knew that he had to recapture the road as soon as possible.

...Almost immediately, troops from both sides found themselves engaged in hand-to-hand fighting, and casualties began to mount. Yairi sent a company to try to flank the Egyptians, but the latter had established an in-depth defense with good interior lines, and repulsed the Israelis, wounding or killing all their officers. Adan finally ordered his men to pull out–only to learn that heavy Egyptian fire was preventing the paratroopers from retreating.

...Sharon never was able to fully capture Missouri, nor would he have much success on the west bank when the Israeli Command finally did allow him to cross the canal.

...Moshe Dayan expressed the grief of his nation as he recalled Chinese Farm in his memoirs: I am no novice at war or battle scenes, but I have never seen such a sight. Here was a vast field of slaughter stretching as far as the eye could see.

All this is from an Israeli account!!!
Yom Kippur War: Embattled Israeli Bridgehead at Chinese Farm

 

[The SC]

Battle of Suez

On October 23, with the imminent arrival of UN observers to the front, Israel decided to capture Suez, assuming it would be poorly defended. An armored brigade and an infantry battalion from the Paratroopers Brigade were committed to the task, and entered the city without a battle plan.

The armored column was ambushed and severely hit, while the paratroopers came under heavy fire and many of them became trapped inside a local building. The armored column and part of the infantry force were evacuated during the day, while the main contingent of the paratrooper force eventually managed to dash out of the city and make their way back to Israeli lines.

Battle of Suez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1- Israel was running low on oil, cause Elat's harbor was the only harbor in Israel than can receive oil tankers, and it was blocked with the start of the war.

2- Israeli forces were in a desperate situation, they concentrated themselves in a pocket with Egyptian forces all around them, they threatened in the news all over the world to annihilate 3rd army (20,000 out of 80,000 fighting soldiers, 320,000 available fighting forces & 800,000 total army), while in reality their forces were the ones going to be annihilated, that's why Israel accepted cease fire in the first place, they could not afford our counter attack.

3- They claim they could have marched to Cairo, but that is wrong, the 101 km sign is only 10 to 15 km from the Suez canal, they could not have marched to Cairo, cause they would have to face the reserve armored forces, besides their supply lines were stretched for a long distance.

4- Most Fighters lost to Israeli air force were reported by its pilots that they were hit by a SAM (Surface Air Missle), in reality many of those were brought down in dog fighting with Egyptian Air force, they were just too embarrassed to admit it, cause they were proud of being Kings of the sky. --> check the Egyptian Air Force link in the sources.

5- Most of them know nothing about Elmansora air battle, the one which they lost 17 plane in.

6- The US provided Israel with information about the gap, they did not know about it, till an american plane spotted it.

Air Battle of El Mansoura - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The SC]

In a phone call with Israeli ambassador Simcha Dinitz, Kissinger told the ambassador that the destruction of the Egyptian Third Army "is an option that does not exist." Despite being surrounded however, the Third Army managed to maintain its combat integrity east of the canal and keep up its defensive positions.

Wikipedia.

 

[The SC]

Before 1973 Israel thought of Egypt as an inferior military power & they refused to return back Sinai or implement res 242 which also calls for peace, 1973 war achieved its goal to prove Israel that Egypt has the capability to inflict heavy damage on her, especially with the small population with Israel, this time Israel accepted to implement res 242 with Egypt.

About demilitarization in Sinai, Egypt has enough forces to control and defend Sinai, check source. keep in mind that Zone B is a big mountain with 3 passages between west and east.

About the gap, Israeli threatened in the media that she can annihilate 3rd army but she concealed from the media that her forces in the gap were surrounded as well. besides, what is the military plan that enables Israel to annihilate 3rd army without:

1- Egyptian forces annihilating Israeli forces in the gap including cutting their own supply lines between 2nd and 3rd army.

2- Loosing any Israeli soldier while annihilating 3rd army

3rd army still had weapons and was able to fight even after cease fire when Israel tried to capture Elsuez (check sources)

15000 total Arab died is the Israeli version, Arab version is 5000, do you think annihilating 3rd army would have happened with 3rd army or rest of Egyptian forces watching ?, this was just a propaganda, the only way to annihilate them is to let them die of hunger, but even that was not gonna happen, cause then 2nd army and 3rd army would have cut off Israeli forces supply lines, then 3rd army would have got supplies through 2nd army & innhilitating Israeli forces in the gap would have started.

USA & Israel made it look to the world as if Israel was the one who had the upper hand, they made it look like Israel gave food & water to 3rd army just from willingness to do so, no that's not right, if they did not allow water and food to reach 3rd army, there would not have been a cease fire.

Yes, Egypt agreed to negotiate with Israel directly (Not the first time) not only to send water & food to 3rd army but also to negotiate disengagement & peace later, which proves that Egypt had the POWER to negotiate which she did not have before the war.

The Egyptian army did not lose its new positions which were liberated through the War on the Canal Eastern shores. These positions extend 180 Kms on the Canal east shore with an average depth of 7 to 10 Kms. Check the following map which shows the armistic lines of 22nd of OCt 1973 which marks the UN ceasefire day. Also, it shows the lines on 24th of OCT which marks the practical end of the War. The two days difference between the two dates were employed by IDF to cut the third army supply lines. As these two days were proved to be after Israel official acceptance of ceasefire on the 22nd of OCT, Israel found masive international opposition to consider the lines of the 24th of Oct as a truth lines. Egypt threatened to ignore the UN ceasefire decision & to resume military action if the third army logistic shippments are checked by IDF. Israel was obliged to open these lines on the 26th of OCT & to start negotiation with Egypt in the attendance of UN officiers to discuss the return to 22nd lines. This negotiation ended with Kilo101 disengagement agreement which marked IDF withdraw to 35 kilometers away from the canal deep inside Sinai. This was completed on the 18th of Jan 1974. This withdrawal liberated 6300 Km2 of Sinai which was under the occupation of IDF since 1967 as shown in the second map. Israel lost lands in this war & did not maintain any political gain. This war marked the first IDF withrawal under fire without the slightest gain.

 

[The SC]

As an Israeli soldier of the time I must confirm the Ambassador’s words. The Egyptians had the legendary Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifles, the best gun in the world, while we had FN battle rifles that hated sand and water. We dropped our FNs and picked up their AKs at the first opportunity. They used anti-tank Sagger missiles, light, portable, precise, carried by one soldier. Saggers killed between 800 and 1200 Israeli tanks. We had old 105 mm recoilless jeep-mounted rifles, four men at a rifle (actually, a small cannon) to fight tanks. Only new American weapons redressed the imbalance.
...
During the war, we (the Israelis) also knew that if Sadat advanced, he would gain the whole of Sinai in no time; we entertained many hypotheses why he was standing still, none satisfactory. Vinogradov explains it well: Sadat ran off his script and was waited for US involvement. What he got was the deep raid of Sharon.

This breakthrough of the Israeli troops to the western bank of the Canal was the murkiest part of the war, Vinogradov writes. He asked Sadat’s military commanders at the beginning of the war why there is the forty km wide gap between the Second and the Third armies and was told that this was Sadat’s directive. The gap was not even guarded; it was left wide open like a Trojan backdoor in a computer program.

Sadat paid no attention to Sharon’s raid; he was indifferent to this dramatic development. Vinogradov asked him to deal with it when only the first five Israeli tanks crossed the Canal westwards; Sadat refused, saying it was of no military importance, just a “political move”, whatever that meant. He repeated this to Vinogradov later, when the Israeli foothold on the Western bank of became a sizeable bridgehead. Sadat did not listen to advice from Moscow, he opened the door for the Israelis into Africa.

This allows for two explanations, says Vinogradov: an impossible one, of the Egyptians’ total military ignorance and an improbable one, of Sadat’s intentions. The improbable wins, as Sherlock Holmes observed.

What Really Happened in the “Yom Kippur” War? » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

A must read, conspiracy theory: by asoviet diplomat