The best air to air missile from the USA, Russia, and China

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by batmannow, Jan 24, 2009.

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  1. batmannow
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    batmannow ELITE MEMBER

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    The best air to air missile from the USA, Russia, and China

    Posted on September 2, 2008
    by yalun
    yalun.wordpress.com

    After comparing the jet fighters of these three main military powers, the next thing is to see what the weapons. The jet fighter weapons range from fixed armament such as 20-30 mm canons, air to air/ground/sea missiles, and smart bombs. During modern air combat, beside the pilot skill, the next important thing is the beyond visual range (BVR) capability of each fighter. This is determined by the avionics and medium range missile capability. F-22’s avionic is one generation more advanced than any Sukhoi family or whatever in Chinese inventory. However, the missiles are still quite comparable.



    AIM-120 AMRAAM

    F-22 probably has a most advanced missile. Its AIM-120D AMRAAM has a range 95 km, combined with a sophisticated avionics, makes F-22 a most lethal fighter. Russia R-77 (AA-12) although has been claimed to posses better maneuverability and range (175 km), it does not have any combat experience yet. Also, the avionics systems on board Sukhoi and Mig jet fighters are less proven than their American counterpart. On the other hand, China recently produce it latest missile, the SD-10 that is used in its J-10 and J-11 fighters. It has a range of 80 km, making it is comparable to AIM-120C.

    Russian R-77

    Chinese SD-10 BVRAAM

    By judging from the specification, R-77 could be the best BVR missile in service today. It only need some combat experience to prove its capability. AIM-120C had been used effectively during Kosovo and Iraq Wars. Lastly, SD-10, although still inferior to both American dan Russian have, has shown a great potential of Chinese future military technology.
  2. blain2
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    blain2 SENIOR MODERATOR

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    I would stick with AIM-120 any time of the day. The R&D alone into the AMRAAM program has been of staggering nature with billions poured into it. The only problem that I have with the Pakistani acquisition of the AIM-120C5 is that we should have staggered the purchase of the 500 units so we could have purchased a mix of C5s and C7s. Turkey and Israel both have received C7s.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
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  3. mean_bird
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    mean_bird PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    I asked this in another thread, but since this is a more appropriate thread so let me ask here:

    Can someone please tell what exactly is the H-4 missile? and is it being used by the JF-17?

    The news about it came in 2003 and there was a lot of confusion to what it actually is i.e whether a BVR AAM or A2G. wiki (not the best source though) is reporting it to be a BVR and so did TOI.

    H-4 BVR-AAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Pak Air Force inducts BVR missiles-Pakistan-World-The Times of India

    thanks
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  4. metalfalcon
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    metalfalcon SENIOR MEMBER

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    At least Pakistan is also having its own H-4 BVR Missile now that's what i call a milestone.

    It may not be as good as Other but its "MADE IN PAKISTAN", That's what matter the most.
  5. Moscow
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    Moscow BANNED

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    there is a very big difference between the US and russia i n the way these missiles operate a part of the explanation is given below.

    The mathematics of multiple round missile engagements are unambiguous - the size of a missile salvo launched is a stronger driver of success than the actual kill probability of the individual missiles. If the missiles are wholly identical by type,factor degrading the kill probability of one missile is apt to have a similar effect on its siblings in a salvo. However, where the missiles differ by seeker type and guidance control laws, then the assumption of statistically independent missile shots is very much stronger.
    BVR missile launch was to salvo two rounds, a semi-active radar homing weapon and a heatseeking weapon.Even if we assume a mediocre per round kill probability of 30 percent, a four round salvo still exceeds a total kill probability of 75 percent.this technology is applicable to russian BVR missiles
    the western made is AIM-120 AMRAAMThe AIM-120C-4 has better kinematic performance introducing a larger rocket motor and shorter control section, and a better warhead, while the AIM-120C-6 introduced a better fuse. The latest AIM-120D introduces a redesigned seeker built for better durability in high vibration carriage environments, a two way datalink, GPS to supplement inertial guidance, incrementally improved kinematics, and better seeker performance against high off-boresight targets.Since all of the AIM-120s fired are identical in kinematic performance and seeker jam resistance, any measure applied by the enemy d which is effective against one AIM-120 round in the salvo is apt to produce the same effect against all AIM-120 rounds - a problem the russian BVR does not have due to diversity in seeker types and missile kinematics.



    classified capabilities such as the use of the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar as an X-band high power jammer against the Russian BARS or Irbis E radar are not a panacea, and may actually hasten the downfall.This is for the simple reason that to jam the Russian radar, the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar must jam the frequencies being used by the Russian radar, and this then turns the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar into a wholly electronically predictable X-band high power beacon for an anti-radiation seeker equipped Russian BVR missile such as the R-27EP or R-77P. The act of jamming the Russian radar effectively surrenders the frequency hopping agility in the emissions of the APG-79 or APG-81 AESA radar, denying it the only defence it has against the anti-radiation missile



    the advantage therefore lies with the r-77

    thanx:sniper:
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  6. Contrarian
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    Contrarian ELITE MEMBER

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    I'd put my doubts of Pakistan receiving C7's. I dont think PAF would be given parity with equipment given to IsAF.
  7. fatman17
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    fatman17 PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    there is a detailed article on a2a missiles in the missiles section:!
  8. fatman17
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    fatman17 PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    in time they will...plus the US is already testing the 120D. as soon as it comes on-line the C7 will be sold to other nations. after all its a business!
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  9. blain2
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    blain2 SENIOR MODERATOR

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    I don't think that is an issue. PAF and IDFAF are worlds apart in terms of where they operate. US policy is certainly not being influenced because of this.

    My own take is that when in 2005 we placed the orders, the C7s were not even shipping. At that time, C5 was the most advanced version and we were able to place orders for that.

    If there had been some concern about Pakistan being a threat to Israel, then the Americans would have even refused C5s to Pakistan (keep in mind that Jordan and Egypt still can't get a hold of C5s).
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  10. Falcon2
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    Falcon2 FULL MEMBER

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    HI

    Ive read that Russia has missiles with operational ranges upto 300Km(Vympel R-37).Now this is really long.Also other missiles like R-77 have more range then AMRAMS.In my opinion this makes Russian missiles superior.However Im no expert and this is just my own thought and plz can anyone shed some light on the R-37 missile

    THX
  11. hj786
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    hj786 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Dear Sir
    I can prove to you that this is absolute rubbish.
    Th source you got this "analysis" from is an Australian source that is trying to persuade the Australian government to buy NOTHING but F-22 and F-35. They are extremely biased.

    R-77 holds no advantage until it has combat kills against a competant AMRAAM-equipped air force. Simple as that.
    AMRAAM has an advantage because it is battle-tested, from what we know AMRAAM is extremely capable and is continually undergoing improvement and refinement. That is why even fighter pilots say "I would rather have 4 AMRAAM that 10 R-77 or SD-10."

    I know you are Russian, but please don't go saying things like "therefore advantage lies with untested missile (R-77) rather than tested missile (AMRAAM)." We do not know, these things are classified, no civilian can know the actual capabilities of these weapons, and military people would not dare tell you. If you want to believe R-77 is better, go ahead. But please do not mislead people by posting some biased source full of guess-work and speculation!
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  12. ahmeddsid
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    ahmeddsid SENIOR MEMBER

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    Look I admit the american weaponry got battle experience, but Just think against whom it has got Experience! the Iraq Airforce? The Taliban Airforce? or the nams? The Americans havent fought with anyone their own size, hence I wouldnt say they got the Best Air to Air Missiles. For that, we have to wait.
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  13. Moscow
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    Moscow BANNED

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    sir the article i have posted talks about the 2 different techniques in which the russian and american bvr missiles operate, yes the source is australian so moreover the most important point it is not russian its an american ally and sir the truth is every article in this world is biased everyone has there own agenda.
    sir you will find other articles also related to russian technology about bvr combat its different from the american one,i was not talking about a anything outside the post the thread mentioned the r-77 so i quoted it, i know its still being tested , i will soon post some american analysts review of the entire system.
    :cheers:
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  14. batmannow
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    batmannow ELITE MEMBER

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    moscow;sir
    my hand is up for r-77 , surly its the best of them!:tup::)
    but as our relations with russia, were not so close , that we can get our hands on them, i certainly would like to see , some joint efforts from china & pakistan togather working on this venture!;)
    a real mix of Chinese SD-10 BVRAAM + r-77 +AIM-120 AMRAAM= could be achivable in 2 to 3 years?
    120 AMRAAM could be best because ,of its quality, but in the future ! for pakistan it would be dificult to get, or hard to buy.
    if we are using them now, that means that chinese friends already got the blueprints?
    as chinese airforce is already in use of SD-10 & r-77 , it would be very great to see china & pakistan developing some sort of mix of everything?:enjoy::agree:;)
    for me, i would never favour pakistan buying a needle from USA!
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  15. AJSINGH
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    AJSINGH FULL MEMBER

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    as you said that r-77 is better than ammram 120 d ....and combat record is not suffecient proof that ammram is better BVR missile plus avaionics onboard of su 35 are sufficent enough to use the full potential of the r-77 ...plus new r-77 version is also coming up