Singapore's defence industry unveiled two new 5.56mm combat rifles

[Water Car Engineer]

Senang Diri: A look at the world's shortest bullpup rifle: The Singapore Technologies Kinetics BMCR

Developed by the weapons labs of Singapore Technologies Kinetics (STK), the bullpup rifle bears a superficial resemblance to STK's SAR-21 5.56mm assault rifle. However, the firing mechanism and front ejection for spent cartridges suggests that the SAR-21 - the standard infantry weapon fielded by the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) - underwent a major engineering redesign to transform it into the new weapon.

An STK statement said:"Giving infantry soldiers maximum lethality in urban operations, ST Kinetics’ new combat rifles are designed for compactness, minimum weight and full ambidextrous operations in a highly configurable multirole package.

"The STK BMCR (Bullpup Multirole Combat Rifle) and STK CMCR (Conventional Multirole Combat Rifle) possess multirole flexibility for assault, marksman/sharpshooter and suppressive roles, putting the infantry section ahead in lethality and in achieving their mission objectives. Both rifles are designed to fire NATO SS109 5.56mm ammunition and ST Kinetics’ Extended Range 5.56mm ammunition, and come standard with MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny Rails at the three, six, nine and 12 o’clock positions.

"The STK BMCR is designed to be the shortest bullpup-design in the world, to afford easy handling by the soldier even in tight spaces. The STK CMCR, meanwhile, is designed with a unique buttstock design that allows the rifle to be folded and adjusted for maximum compactness during use."

 

[kbd-raaf]

Wow. Much rifle. Very bullet.

 

[That Guy]

Wow. Much rifle. Very bullet.

Just...just no. This isn't reddit.

----

Any ideas on who's the intended customer?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Amazing design.

 

[A1Kaid]

BMCR looks like an Aug imitation and the CMCR looks like a modernized M14... Wish they would come up with their own original designs.

 

[That Guy]

BMCR looks like an Aug imitation and the CMCR looks like a modernized M14... Wish they would come up with their own original designs.

Not really, the BMCR is bullpup, and the CMCR looks like a generic AR design. I don't know where you're getting that impression from.

 

[A1Kaid]

Not really, the BMCR is bullpup, and the CMCR looks like a generic AR design. I don't know where you're getting that impression from.

Not really, the BMCR is bullpup,

So is the Aug...

CMCR looks like a generic AR design

It looks more like the modernized version of the M14, doesn't resemble the Ar at all. This has a curvy pistol grip, and what appears to be a folding stock, and it's an elongated rifle just like the M14, the spaces in between the metal also resembles the modernized design of the M14. None of those other features are commonly found on Ar platforms.

 

[MilSpec]

Looks good, hopefully some semi auto's come to US. would be interesting to see this in the market...

 

[Khan_patriot]

Is it just me or are the guns getting sexier day by day.....

 

[Nishan_101]

Senang Diri: A look at the world's shortest bullpup rifle: The Singapore Technologies Kinetics BMCR

What about POF and Germany doing JV...

 

[That Guy]

So is the Aug...

So is the FN F-2000, bullpup configuration just makes the rifle layout shorter, but it doesn't mean the internals are the same. You should know this already.

It looks more like the modernized version of the M14, doesn't resemble the Ar at all. This has a curvy pistol grip, and what appears to be a folding stock, and it's an elongated rifle just like the M14, the spaces in between the metal also resembles the modernized design of the M14. None of those other features are commonly found on Ar platforms.

Those are superficial resemblances, the layout is generally a AR layout, from where the fire mode toggle is, to the magazine and ejection placement.

But again, these are superficial resemblances. The M-416 looks exactly like a M-16, but the internal components are completely different.

They're made to look similar so that soldiers and police officers have an easier time adjusting to the new rifle. It doesn't mean the rifle is a copy in any way.

 

[A1Kaid]

So is the FN F-2000, bullpup configuration just makes the rifle layout shorter, but it doesn't mean the internals are the same. You should know this already.



Those are superficial resemblances, the layout is generally a AR layout, from where the fire mode toggle is, to the magazine and ejection placement.

But again, these are superficial resemblances. The M-416 looks exactly like a M-16, but the internal components are completely different.

They're made to look similar so that soldiers and police officers have an easier time adjusting to the new rifle. It doesn't mean the rifle is a copy in any way.

What are you even talking about?

So is the FN F-2000, bullpup configuration just makes the rifle layout shorter, but it doesn't mean the internals are the same. You should know this already.

I wasn't even talking about the "internals" but the external design, the BMCR is an imitation design of the Aug. From it's it's stock, polymer materials,, bullpup design, and upper and lower receiver it resembles the Aug. But you just tried to say that the CMCR doesn't look like the Aug because it's a bullpup and implied the Aug wasn't a bullpup--do you even understand your own argument and points?

Those are superficial resemblances, the layout is generally a AR layout, from where the fire mode toggle is, to the magazine and ejection placement.

But again, these are superficial resemblances. The M-416 looks exactly like a M-16, but the internal components are completely different.

Just because the magazine is in front of the trigger assembly group doesn't mean it's an "Ar layout" the M1 carbine also had a detachable magazine that was designed to go in front of the trigger assembly group and that was before there ever was a "Ar layout".

The M-416 looks exactly like a M-16, but the internal components are completely different.

No they are not, from the trigger assembly group, the bolt carrier group--firing pin, charging handle, flash hider design, the chamber, the buffer spring and tube, the position of the magazine, the gas tube, almost all the internal dynamics of of the M-16 and HK416/M416 are practically the same design and function similarly. In fact, the HK416 is a offspring of the Ar-15/M-16 platform, how can they be "completely different"?

HK416 parts

M-16 Internal parts

Dude please give your video game knowledge a rest, you really don't sound convincing "superficial resemblances" well anything making the exterior of the gun can by definition be called "superficial" and I was only talking about the exterior. Neither you or I have seen the BMCR internals, so why would you even bother trying to bring up the internal design.




BMCR

and Aug A3

the BMCR even copies the same staggered transparent magazine the Aug famously uses. The material (polymer) the stock and body of the BMCR appears to be the same of the Aug and curved in a similar fashion. Even the exact position of the top picitiny rail is the same (though that can always be altered) but the fact they chose to go with that design says something. The BMCR does have slight modifications obviously they aren't going to copy everything but it does indeed resemble the Aug.

 

[That Guy]

What are you even talking about?



I wasn't even talking about the "internals" but the external design, the BMCR is an imitation design of the Aug. From it's it's stock, polymer materials,, bullpup design, and upper and lower receiver it resembles the Aug. But you just tried to say that the CMCR doesn't look like the Aug because it's a bullpup and implied the Aug wasn't a bullpup--do you even understand your own argument and points?




Just because the magazine is in front of the trigger assembly group doesn't mean it's an "Ar layout" the M1 carbine also had a detachable magazine that was designed to go in front of the trigger assembly group and that was before there ever was a "Ar layout".




No they are not, from the trigger assembly group, the bolt carrier group--firing pin, charging handle, flash hider design, the chamber, the buffer spring and tube, the position of the magazine, the gas tube, almost all the internal dynamics of of the M-16 and HK416/M416 are practically the same design and function similarly. In fact, the HK416 is a offspring of the Ar-15/M-16 platform, how can they be "completely different"?

HK416 parts

M-16 Internal parts

Dude please give your video game knowledge a rest, you really don't sound convincing "superficial resemblances" well anything making the exterior of the gun can by definition be called "superficial" and I was only talking about the exterior. Neither you or I have seen the BMCR internals, so why would you even bother trying to bring up the internal design.




BMCR

and Aug A3

the BMCR even copies the same staggered transparent magazine the Aug famously uses. The material (polymer) the stock and body of the BMCR appears to be the same of the Aug and curved in a similar fashion. Even the exact position of the top picitiny rail is the same (though that can always be altered) but the fact they chose to go with that design says something. The BMCR does have slight modifications obviously they aren't going to copy everything but it does indeed resemble the Aug.

First of all, I never said the AUG is not a bullpup design. Most of my knowledge about guns doesn't come from games, it comes from real life. Now, I admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about guns, but nothing you've said actually convinces me that I'm wrong.

The examples you've shown, actually show me that they don't have much in common, the upper and lower receiver aren't in the exact same place, nor do they resemble each other, and two the M-416 was designed on purpose to be a replacement for the M-16. In fact, that was the entire purpose to the M-416, so that the US military wouldn't have to retrain their soldiers completely on how to use the new rifle, it was meant to resemble the M-16.

Going into a bit of background about the M-416, it's predecessor wasn't the M-16, the physical resemblance (like I mentioned before) was only to convince the US military that they wouldn't have to retrain their soldiers too much on rifle handling. The M-416's predecessor was the XM8 and the G-36, and much of what was learned from the XM8 project (despite it's failure) was put into the M-416 project. A long with the G-36 project which was a major success on HK's part.

XM8

G-36

HK-416

I would ask you to at least respect what I do know about rifle and not take what I say for granted. I have quite a bit of respect for you, so I didn't expect you of all people to say that everything I know about guns is from video games.

 

[A1Kaid]

First of all, I never said the AUG is not a bullpup design. Most of my knowledge about guns doesn't come from games, it comes from real life. Now, I admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about guns, but nothing you've said actually convinces me that I'm wrong.

The examples you've shown, actually show me that they don't have much in common, the upper and lower receiver aren't in the exact same place, nor do they resemble each other, and two the M-416 was designed on purpose to be a replacement for the M-16. In fact, that was the entire purpose to the M-416, so that the US military wouldn't have to retrain their soldiers completely on how to use the new rifle, it was meant to resemble the M-16.

Going into a bit of background about the M-416, it's predecessor wasn't the M-16, the physical resemblance (like I mentioned before) was only to convince the US military that they wouldn't have to retrain their soldiers too much on rifle handling. The M-416's predecessor was the XM8 and the G-36, and much of what was learned from the XM8 project (despite it's failure) was put into the M-416 project. A long with the G-36 project which was a major success on HK's part.

XM8

G-36

HK-416

I would ask you to at least respect what I do know about rifle and not take what I say for granted. I have quite a bit of respect for you, so I didn't expect you of all people to say that everything I know about guns is from video games.

"The M-416's predecessor was the XM8 and the G-36"

The HK416 is based off the Ar-15/M-16 platform, in fact it was H&K's intention to build the HK416 after the Ar-15/M-16 platform. This is a well known fact, I don't understand how you can refute this and deny it? Just read the history. In fact, you can even use many HK416 parts on a Ar-15/M-16 and vice versa. The HK416 was intended to simply be an upgraded variant of the M4/M-16.


In fact I just found this on wiki and the very first sentence says this

"The Heckler & Koch HK416 is an assault rifle designed and manufactured by Heckler & Koch. It is based on the AR-15 platform, originally conceived as an improvement to the Colt M4 carbine family issued to the U.S. military,"

Now, I admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about guns, but nothing you've said actually convinces me that I'm wrong.

Because you don't understand firearms that's why, the upper and lower receiver on the M-16 and HK416 are in the same location, there's no guesswork involved it's just a fact not an opinion.


XM8 has nothing to do with the HK416. I've already explained to you the BMCR strongly imitates the Aug that means from the exterior.

In fact, that was the entire purpose to the M-416, so that the US military wouldn't have to retrain their soldiers completely on how to use the new rifle, it was meant to resemble the M-16.

 

[That Guy]

The HK416 is based off the Ar-15/M-16 platform, in fact it was H&K's intention to build the HK416 after the Ar-15/M-16 platform. This is a well known fact, I don't understand how you can refute this and deny it? Just read the history. In fact, you can even use many HK416 parts on a Ar-15/M-16 and vice versa. The HK416 was intended to simply be an upgraded variant of the M4/M-16.


In fact I just found this on wiki and the very first sentence says this




Because you don't understand firearms that's why, the upper and lower receiver on the M-16 and HK416 are in the same location, there's no guesswork involved it's just a fact not an opinion.


XM8 has nothing to do with the HK416. I've already explained to you the BMCR strongly imitates the Aug that means from the exterior.

Look, clearly we don't agree on this, and I don't want to fight with you over this. I've already acknowledged that the HK-416 has similarities on the M-16, and yes, it was influenced heavily by the M-16, but it wasn't the HK's predecessor, simply because HK didn't make M-16s, the M-16 was strictly colt's design. It's origins aren't the M-16, "based on/derived from" and "origin" are two different things. I can make a computer based on windows, but that doesn't mean I'm using window's architecture, I could just as easily be using Linux (in fact, Ubuntu is exactly that).

The exact same article on the wiki which you mention says this...

History

The United States Army's Delta Force, at the request of R&D NCO Larry Vickers, collaborated with the German arms maker Heckler & Koch to develop the new carbine in the early 1990s.[when?] During development, Heckler & Koch capitalized on experience gained developing the Bundeswehr'sHeckler & Koch G36 assault rifle, the U.S. Army's XM8 rifleproject (canceled in 2005) and the modernization of the British Armed ForcesSA80 small arms family.[citation needed] The project was originally called the HK M4, but this was changed in response to a trademark infringement suit filed by Colt Defense.
Design details

A Norwegian soldier in Afghanistan, armed with the HK416N.
The HK416 uses a HK-proprietary short-stroke gas system that derives from the HK G36, forgoing the direct impingement gas system standard in AR-15 rifles.[7] The HK G36 gas system was in turn partially derived from the AR-18 assault rifle designed in 1963.[8] The HK system uses a short-stroke piston driving an operating rod to force the bolt carrier to the rear. This design prevents combustion gases from entering the weapon's interior—a shortcoming with direct impingement systems.[9] The reduction in heat and fouling of the bolt carrier group increases the reliability of the weapon and extends the interval between stoppages. It also reduces operator cleaning time and stress on critical components. According to H&K, "...experience that Heckler & Koch gained during its highly successful 'midlife improvement programme' for the British Army SA80 assault rifle, have now borne fruit in the HK416."[7]

The HK416 is equipped with a proprietary accessory rail forearm with MIL-STD-1913 rails on all four sides. This lets most current accessories for M4/M16-type weapons fit the HK416. The HK416 rail forearm can be installed and removed without tools by using the bolt locking lug as the screwdriver. The rail forearm is "free-floating" and does not contact the barrel, improving accuracy.

The HK416 has an adjustable multi-position telescopic butt stock, offering six different lengths of pull. The shoulder pad can be either convex or concave and the stock features a storage space for maintenance accessories, spare electrical batteries or other small kit items.

The trigger pull is 34 N (7.6 lbf). The empty weight of a HK416 box magazine is 250 g (8.8 oz).

The HK416's barrel is cold hammer-forged with a 20,000-round service life and features a 6 grooves 178 mm (7 in) right hand twist. The cold hammer-forging process provides a stronger barrel for greater safety in case of an obstructed bore or for extended firing sessions. Modifications for an over-the-beach (OTB) capability such as drainage holes in the bolt carrier and buffer system are available to let the HK416 fire safely after being submerged in water.

Differences from the M4
The HK416 is a variant of the American carbine, the M4. It includes international symbols for safe, semi-automatic, and fully automatic. It has a redesigned retractable stock that lets the user rotate the butt plate, and a new pistol grip designed by H&K to more ergonomically fit the hand. A new single-piece hand guard attaches to the rifle with a free floatingRI system for mounting accessories. The most notable internal difference is the short stroke gas piston system, which derive from the HK G36. To compensate for increased pressure due to the new gas system, it has a new, thicker barrel.

Furthermore, adjustable gas block with piston allows reliable operation on short-barrelled models, with or without a suppressor attached. Finally, the HK416 includes a folding front sight, and a rear sight similar to the G3. The HK416 system is offered as an upper receiver, separate from the rest of the rifle, as a replacement to the standard issue M4 upper receiver. It can attach to existing AR-15 family rifles, giving them the new gas system, the new hand guard, and sights, while retaining the original lower receiver. The Heckler & Koch 416 can also be purchased as a fully assembled, stand alone carbine.

Yes, it was based on the base platform of the M-16, I've never denied this, but to say that it was simply an improved copy of it is really ignoring the facts that it also has it's origins in other platforms.

I also wasn't talking about the M416 and the M-16 when I mentioned the upper and lower receiver, I was talking about the Aug and the BMCR, which don't have the same location for said receivers (similar, not same), a simple visual check shows us that. The BMCR's lower receiver is more forward, while the AUG's lower receiver is more is slightly further back. It only looks the same position because of the barrel length and the odd way the AUG's handle is shaped.

Look, it seems like we're either misunderstanding each other's comments, or not reading them properly, let's just leave it.