Sanitation - Pakistan beats India

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by ashok321, Aug 31, 2016.

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  1. ashok321

    ashok321 BANNED

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    Progress on sanitation and drinking water – 2015 update and MDG assessment.
    sanitation 2.png


    The Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) – the framework that has been a key part of efforts to build a better world for the past 15 years – challenged the global community to reduce by half the proportion of the population without safe drinking water and basic sanitation. Throughout this period, the WHO/UNICEF Joint Monitoring Programme (JMP) has monitored progress.

    While Pakistan has already met the target on sanitation, India is struggling.


    sanitation.png

    Source: WHO/UNICEF
     
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  2. nick_indian

    nick_indian SENIOR MEMBER

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    Congrats to Pakistan on faster progress than India on sanitation.

    India has done well and progressed rapidly on a lot of things but sanitation is not one of them unfortunately. Hope things will improve faster under Modi now.
     
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  3. salarsikander

    salarsikander SENIOR MEMBER

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    Pakistan is 1/6 of India so its not a big deal here
     
  4. nick_indian

    nick_indian SENIOR MEMBER

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    India's GDP is 8 times that of Pakistan. Size of the population is no excuse in this case. There is general apathy towards sanitation in parts of rural India especially in the East. People actually prefer relieving themselves in the fields. This attitude has to change and governments must do something about it.
     
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  5. salarsikander

    salarsikander SENIOR MEMBER

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    Trust me it is. The amount of task when looking at the magnitude of the size of population, is by no means an easy feat.
     
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  6. ashok321

    ashok321 BANNED

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    Its not the size:

    China had similar problem too in the past, they overcame it.
    Senegal is smaller than Pakistan, yet they have not met the target.

    Its the intent.
     
  7. ashok321

    ashok321 BANNED

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. AUz

    AUz SENIOR MEMBER

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    Not only sanitation, Pakistan also beats India in terms of "piped (clean) water supply" to households, and so on..

    Over the past decades (1950-2008), Pakistan has been ahead of/better than India in terms of

    Sanitation (Pakistan still ahead)

    Poverty rates (Pakistan still ahead)

    Clean Water supply (Pakistan still ahead in terms of pipped water pluming to houses, but difference is very little now in terms of overall improved water supply)

    GDP per capita (PPP) (India caught up in 2009, doing better now)

    Urbanization rates (Pakistan is still ahead)

    Malnutrition (Now India has caught up, and the difference is negligible with 1% to 2% in favor of may be Pakistan or India..but similar situation overall)



    However, one thing where Indians have outdone us is education. Our literacy rates are still lower than India's and have been lower post-independence.

    Overall, Pakistan has provided a better environment and life to its citizens than India in all previous decades post independence:pakistan:


    However, things are changing in favor of India now--due to our lost decade, war on terror, floods, Earth quakes that have stalled us in last decade and a half.

    Hopefully, Pakistan will restart its journey and come back on track!
     
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  9. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri ELITE MEMBER

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    Wont be for long. Last year India coverage increased from 55% to 65%. It is on track to reach 100% in about 2 - 3 years time.

    Again not by much and will probably be surpassed by India in 2020. The new world bank data series show India's absolute poverty was probably around 12% instead of 20% in 2011. This means its probably well under 10% currently.

    I would also like to see the following income distribution for Pakistan for year 2015:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/0A...middle-class-the-promise-and-the-reality.html

    India has surpassed in this area recently:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.H2O.SAFE.ZS?locations=PK-IN

    Significantly better for India now and the growth is much faster too:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=IN-PK

    True but look at the slum prevalence:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.SLUM.UR.ZS?locations=IN-PK

    Comparing raw urbanisation rates means little without looking at the actual living conditions of those in urban areas.

    Sorry the difference now is not negligible (especially taking into context Pakistans slow change/increase now)

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SN.ITK.DEFC.ZS?locations=PK-IN

    http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/IND/

    http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/PAK/

    Its not just literacy rate. Also include enrolment rates, school life expectancy, completion rates, transfer rates. All significantly higher than Pakistan...and also growing faster than Pakistan for the most part (in getting to 100%). You can check UNESCO for this.

    Whats really concerning is that Pakistan's literacy rate could even be falling:

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/886027/2013-14-report-literacy-rate-slips-nationwide-by-2/

    BTW, you forgot to mention life expectancy:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=IN-PK

    An opinion that I do not share.....neither does the UN given India has always had a higher HDI than Pakistan.

    Agreed! South Asia needs more development across the board. Comparisons are mostly semantics given how far behind we are overall as a region.
     
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  10. hussain0216

    hussain0216 SENIOR MEMBER

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    I like how many of the indexes where india is behind Pakistan you give possible, theoretical future indian statistics that haven't even happened or been achieved yet whilst assuming Pakistan will stand still

    By that standard if Pakistans economic plans go as planned we will leave india far behind
     
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  11. AUz

    AUz SENIOR MEMBER

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    65%?!!?!?!


    It's barely 40% dude...majority of india still lacks toilets and basic sanitation...

    It wouldn't be wrong to say that india is the biggest open-air sh!thole in the world as majority of its population lacks sanitation and majority of rural population doesn't even have toilets..

    2015 stats on sanitation from world bank

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.ACSN

    india has much, much more poverty than Pakistan. The intensity of indian poverty is even worse. I'll explain this in detail when I answer your fallacy about Pakistan having more "slums" than india (which is uttery ridiculous statement to even say!!)..

    Tag along...

    No, india hasn't "surpassed' us. 2% to 3% difference means nothing..

    Situation remains better for Pakistan overall because we have much higher rates of pipe systems providing clean waters to households than india (You do know that piping infrastructure for water carriage is what really matters to have modern watering infrastructure!)

    Here's the break down from your own source


    [PAKISTAN]
    TOTAL WATER coverage 2015 update

    Year Total improved Piped onto premises Other improved Other unimproved Surface water
    1990 86% 22% 64% 6% 8%
    1995 87% 25% 62% 6% 7%
    2000 88% 28% 60% 7% 5%
    2005 90% 32% 58% 6% 4%
    2010 91% 35% 56% 6% 3%
    2015 91% 39% 52% 7% 2%



    [INDIA]
    TOTAL WATER coverage 2015 update

    Year Total improved Piped onto premises Other improved Other unimproved Surface water
    1990 71% 16% 55% 26% 3%
    1995 76% 19% 57% 21% 3%
    2000 81% 21% 60% 17% 2%
    2005 85% 23% 62% 14% 1%
    2010 90% 26% 64% 9% 1%
    2015 94% 28% 66% 5% 1%



    LOL, significantly better?

    Oh please...

    Per capita GDP of Pakistan is most likely still better than india's when you compare two economies with 2010 as calculation base. Right now, wikipedia shows Pakistani GDP per capita with Pakistani economy based on 2000 as the base-calculation year, while india has 2010 as its base year, hence the difference.



    Do you REALLY even believe that Pakistan has more slums than india--which is KNOWN for slums?!

    Let me explain the situation to you..

    There are no "slums" like that we have in india..Our "kachi abadis" are recorded as slums (bc of UN's broad definition of "slums") but they are more of suburbs which are lacking in something like clean water supply or gas supply etc. These so called "Slums" in Pakistan have concrete housing, proper sanitation, clean water, and hell really good schools as well.

    That is why you must look at more nuanced measurements..For example, Multidimensional poverty Index (MPI) look at the intensity of poverty and makes accurate assessment than broad and irrelevant categories such as "slum"...which some indians want to use to soothe your soul..

    One area has jhuggis...no toilets...they poop/pee in open together..full of extreme poverty (indian slum) while one area has concrete houses, paved roads, schools, television sets in individual homes, proper sanitation, and basically a middle-class area with name "kachi abadi" but lacking constant water supply and is regarded as "slum" (Pakistani "slum"). Both of the above areas fall under the broad U.N definition of "slum" lol...

    But you think it's the same?

    THAT is why UNDP (most latest and most detailed U.N development measurement program) established MPI to measure the actual levels of poverty in countries and also the intensity of deprivation. (for example "american poor" is better than our middle class. Stating American poor and African poor in one line is factual fallacy and doesn't reveal the actual human condition. Similarly, stating Pakistani "slums" and indian slums together is the same exact thing).

    So in MPI and extreme poverty measurement reports by world institutions..the reality was revealed. Pakistan was way, way ahead of india and had much, much better income levels, housing, sanitation, and life overall.


    http://www.cgdev.org/blog/global-absolute-poverty-fell-almost-half-tuesday

    Look at this, report on extreme poverty where humans suffer with severe lack of resources, opportunity, sanitation, and so on (actual slum conditions!)

    Result:

    20 times more indians live in absolute poverty than Pakistanis

    It's not an opinion, but a fact. Overall, Pakistan has provided a better environment and life to its citizens than India in all previous decades post independence. From 1950-2008, Pakistan have had far less poverty, better access to clean water, much better access to sanitation, more rates of urbanization, less malnutrition, and higher levels of average incomes. That's just a fact.

    HDI is just a one measure and not an overall measurement of life in a given country. India does better on HDI mainly bc of education. HDI is a measure which looks at GDP per capita, Education, and Healthcare services. That's all.

    How about malnutrition? How about poverty rates (most important!)? How about sanitation access? And so on...

    So don't try to catch straws. Denying facts wouldn't help your credibility.

    I agree
     
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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  12. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri ELITE MEMBER

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    Each one was a direct response to the ones posted by who I was replying to.
     
  13. somebozo

    somebozo ELITE MEMBER

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    at our camp sites I have never seen bad smelling Pakistani labour they shower before work and shower after work..but if you go to Indian camp the stench is awful...they stink before work, during work and after work...its a cultural think..i almost fainted when i found some of these Indians shower once a week!
     
  14. @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::>

    @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> FULL MEMBER

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    For stupid Indian trolls that's the only consolation. All will be's and can be's.
     
  15. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri ELITE MEMBER

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    Improved sanitation does not equal everyone else open defecating.

    Did you even read the original MDG report in the OP?

    http://files.unicef.org/publication...anitation_and_Drinking_Water_2015_Update_.pdf

    [​IMG]

    Please explain it to the world bank (who have given the definition and data). I am sure they have a lot more time and patience with a random internet troll than I do.


    Fact is more Pakistanis are drinking unsafe water compared to India % wise.

    You can debate about the quality of the delivery method all you want. Its semantics till you put up an authentic source that discusses that rather than your opinion on it. Improved whether piped or other improved is counted as improved. Take it up with the world bank, unicef and others if you have an issue with it....and see if they even respond.


    Not really given PPP consumption would be only marginally affected by base year changes just like it is marginally affected by exchange rates.....since the base year change would be incorporated into the base price level data.

    For example look at Russian or Ukrainian PPP compared to their nominal after the exchange rate shocks they both suffered in recent years.

    Tell your sob story to the World Bank and demand they do something about it.

    They also have said the extreme poverty rate in India was 12% back in 2011 and not 20% under the older less accurate methodology.....there certainly are not "20 times more" in absolute poverty in India than Pakistan either % wise or absolute wise.

    Read it all here:

    http://pubdocs.worldbank.org/pubdoc...09701443800596288/PRN03-Oct2015-TwinGoals.pdf

    Again you quantifying poverty rate as "most important" is an opinion.

    You have your opinion about whats most important

    I have my opinion.....and the UN does too (through HDI). Others may share your opinion, thats fine. Like we agreed its semantics for the most part. Whats important is we learn from each others successes.

    Don't talk garbage:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...g-but-also-die-early/articleshow/50554763.cms
     
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