Red Flag 2009

[PAFAce]

The Red Flag 2009-02 just ended on Feb. 6, 2009, Red Flag 2009-03 is set to begin Feb. 23, 2009 [http://www.nellis.af.mil/library/flyingoperations.asp]. This forum has been quiet about this exercise, regarded as probably the most intense and realistic in the world.

I just wanted to see if we could work together to find any credible sources of information on how well the involved aircrafts performed. Also, Pakistan was, supposedly, invited to RF09, but we haven't heard a response. What are the reasons behind it?

High quality videos of aircraft spotted at Nellis USAF Base during RF09-02:
Red Flag 09-2: 01/26/2009 - Military Photos

High quality pictures of aircraft spotted at Nellis USAF Base during RF09-02"
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,17930.195.html

Red Flag Exercise Schedule:
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flags.html
Note: There are still 3 more planned for this year, Red Flag 09-03 to 09-05.

Participating Aircrafts and Countries at Fed Flag 2009 (09-02 and 09-03)

Red Flag participants
Jan. 26 - Feb. 6, 2009
(Subject to change)

Red Air
F-16 and F-15, 64th and 65th Aggressor Squadrons, Nellis AFB, Nev.
F-16, NAS Fallon, Nev.

Blue Air
F-22, Elmendorf AFB, Alaska

Interdiction
B-1B, Ellsworth AFB, S.D.
F-15E, Seymour-Johnson AFB, N.C.
B-2, Whiteman AFB, Mo.
GR-9, United Kingdom (Ally)
F-16CM, Edwards AFB, Calif.

Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses
F-16, Shaw AFB, S.C.

Command, Control, Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance
E-3, Tinker AFB, Okla.
E-3, RAF Waddington (Ally)
E-8, Robins AFB, Ga.
RQ-1, Creech AFB, Nev.
RC-135, Offutt AFB, Neb.
RQ-4, Beale AFB, Calif.
U-2, Beale AFB

Combat Search and Rescue
MH-60, NAS North Island, Calif.

Aerial Refueling
KC-135, Fairchild AFB, Wash.
KC-135, Grand Forks AFB, N.D.
KC-135, Seymour-Johnson AFB (AF Reserve)
KC-10, Travis AFB, Calif.

Red Flag participants
Feb. 23 - March 13, 2009
(Subject to change)

Red Air
F-16 and F-15, 64th and 65th Aggressor Squadrons, Nellis AFB, Nev.

Blue Air (Offensive Counter Air)
F-22, Langley AFB, Va.
F-3, United Kingdom (Ally)
F-15, Langley AFB
Patriot Missile Battery, Ft. Bragg, N.C.

Interdiction
F-15E, Mountain Home AFB, Idaho
F-111, Australia (Ally)
F/A-18, China Lake NAS, Calif.
A-10, Maryland ANG (last week only)

Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses
F-16, Spangdahlem AB, Germany
E/A-6B, Whidbey Island, Wash.
EC-130, Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz.
E/A-18G, China Lake NAS

Command, Control, Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance
E-3, Tinker AFB, Okla.
E-8, Robins AFB, Ga.
RC-135, Offutt AFB, Neb.
U-2, Beale AFB, Calif.
RQ-1, Creech AFB, Nev. (last week only)

Special Operations
C-130, United Kingdom (Ally)
C-130, Australia (Ally)

Combat Search and Rescue
HH-60, Nellis AFB
HC-130, Moody AFB, Ga.

Aerial Refueling
KC-135, Rickenbacker ANGB, Ohio
KC-10, Travis AFB, Calif.
VC-10, United Kinigdom (Ally)

Source: Nellis Air Force Base - Flying Operations

Boy, what I wouldn't give to be able to see these aircraft up-close. F-22s, F-16s, F-18s, Harriers, A-10s, B-2s, B-1, you name it, incredible stuff.

 

[metalfalcon]

I think PAF is quite happy with "Antolian Eagles" and PAF is not Interested in Red Flags. However PAF was Invited in the red flags by the Americans.

 

[IceCold]

I think we should attend red flag exercise. A hell of an experience for our pilots which will come up against all sort of odds.

 

[mean_bird]

I don't thing we will do that because

1. Our planes are going through MLU
2. JF-17 squadron isn't ready though I doubt we would be taking them to the US
3. Its an expensive exercise
4. Our border situation on the eastern front does not allow us to shift any planes for some exercises.

 

[cabatli_53]

Brothers, Turkey is joining to Red Flag exercises every year but I also do not suppose that Red Flag provides any benefts for Turkish Air Forces... Every Year More than 5 Turkish F-16's with 2 KC Tankers are navigating an oceangoing country to join an exercises. Transportation expenses and joining prices are bringing to Turkey really great costs for only an exercise.

RedFlag has only a popularity around the World so Every country which uses USA made aircrafts, joins to show their capability against the most developed air forces around the World but...

If you check the electronic and systematic environment of Anatolian Exercises; You can realise some points that are more developed than Red flag exercises...

The best of them are;

While the pilots are trying to perform What they charged according to training program ( Red or Green forces ), The real Surface to air defence threats where placed the strategic points according to mission neccessity, try to lock them to hit...2 NATO E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System planes and NATO air refueling tankers are escorting to AE training exercises... While the pilots are sweeting the blood to resque the real locks - performing What he-she charged, The Authorizeds are following them real time in modern (new constructed) war command control center. Havelsan made software and systems [Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR)] are creating the real-time images-moves of training environments on great LCD screens for commanders...


Existing Surface to Air threats for Anatolian Eagle...

ZSU-Shilka, SA-6 Gainfuls, SA-7 Grails, SA-8 Gecko, SA-15 Tor-M1...At present, Turkey is waiting for SA-10-12 to use-hit in Anatolian Eagle....


Regards...

 

[fatman17]

I just wanted to see if we could work together to find any credible sources of information on how well the involved aircrafts performed. Also, Pakistan was, supposedly, invited to RF09, but we haven't heard a response. What are the reasons behind it?

in 2010 when the blk-52 will be in service - my guess!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

USAF would love to have PAF participate in the red flag---with their F 7 pg's, F 16 a/b and Mirage 3/5's. As a matter of fact the usaf really really wanted their pilots to have a go against the PAF---I believe in 2002 or about that time----PAF had agreed to it---but then later withdrew due to certain reservations----basically PAF didnot want the americans to know their capabilities in a full scale excersize. Americans were warming upto india as well---.

But they should do something with the saudis---the qataris---the uae---the indonesians---the turks of course.

I haven't heard about any excersizes that PAF may have had with their chinese counterparts. Excluding the F 16's from the combat simulation---the PAF can go in with their F 7 pg's and the mirages 3/5's against the chinese aircraft. There are so many things that can happen staying local that is the middle east and south asia.

One thing I don't understand is that why does the PAF not have F 7 PG's and mirages in the anatolian eagle excercise!!! Can some illustrious member elucidate upon it.

 

[Super Falcon]

i think we should do exercises with russia if china can do exercises with china why not pakistan with russia

 

[metalfalcon]

Brothers, Turkey is joining to Red Flag exercises every year but I also do not suppose that Red Flag provides any benefts for Turkish Air Forces... Every Year More than 5 Turkish F-16's with 2 KC Tankers are navigating an oceangoing country to join an exercises. Transportation expenses and joining prices are bringing to Turkey really great costs for only an exercise.

RedFlag has only a popularity around the World so Every country which uses USA made aircrafts, joins to show their capability against the most developed air forces around the World but...

If you check the electronic and systematic environment of Anatolian Exercises; You can realise some points that are more developed than Red flag exercises...

The best of them are;

While the pilots are trying to perform What they charged according to training program ( Red or Green forces ), The real Surface to air defence threats where placed the strategic points according to mission neccessity, try to lock them to hit...2 NATO E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System planes and NATO air refueling tankers are escorting to AE training exercises... While the pilots are sweeting the blood to resque the real locks - performing What he-she charged, The Authorizeds are following them real time in modern (new constructed) war command control center. Havelsan made software and systems [Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR)] are creating the real-time images-moves of training environments on great LCD screens for commanders...


Existing Surface to Air threats for Anatolian Eagle...

ZSU-Shilka, SA-6 Gainfuls, SA-7 Grails, SA-8 Gecko, SA-15 Tor-M1...At present, Turkey is waiting for SA-10-12 to use-hit in Anatolian Eagle....


Regards...

Thank you Brother, Your Comments were really Good and Informative Keep it up Buddy.

I Think PAF will Increase Co-operation with Turkish Air Force and "Anatolian Eagle" is a Good Platform for Our Pilots to learn a Great Deal from It.

Red Flags is not on PAF's table right now, May be PAF will join Red Flags in future but at the Moment "Anatolian Eagles" is the Best we have got here.

 

[metalfalcon]

This is a Video i found it out on Youtube, I hoe you will like it.

 

[cabatli_53]

Thanks for the video brother...

Here is an old video but You can see the [Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR)] system of Havelsan that has developed for Anatolian Eagle exercises to create real-time images (supported by satellite systems) of aircrafts. While commanders of related aifforces are drinking What they wish, They can see follow all manouvres of pilots like watching a 3D film..

I hope You will also like it Brother....

 

[PAFAce]

Found these amazing pictures of Maple Flag 41, held in 2008 at the Canadian Forces base in Cold Lake, Alberta, Canada. It is very much like the Red Flag and simulates a large-scale war scenario, with the same Aggressor squadron as the enemy as in the Red Flag.

Maple Flag 41 May 2008 - a set on Flickr

If PAF does not want to attend Red Flag because of its social, political and media backlash (for example, Pakistani and American joint exercise at a time when the Americans are being overly aggressive towards us), a way out would be to participate in the Maple Flag, where they will get the same quality experience without the political ammunition for opposers, though other issues will remain.

Unfortunately for me, Maple Flag is held in Cold Lake, Alberta, which is 2500km from Toronto. Not exactly driving distance.

 

[PAFAce]

Found these pictures of Pakistani F-16s from the No. 9 Squadron in Anatolian Eagles exercise in 2006. Dedicated especially to our brother, cabatli.
air&'s Photos | Patrick's Aviation

Other Anatolian Eagles pictures (I don`t know which year this is, but there are no PAF planes, so it can`t be 06 or 07).
Anatolian Eagle Exercises - Military Photos

 

[metalfalcon]

Found these amazing pictures of Maple Flag 41, held in 2008 at the Canadian Forces base in Cold Lake, Alberta, Canada. It is very much like the Red Flag and simulates a large-scale war scenario, with the same Aggressor squadron as the enemy as in the Red Flag.

Maple Flag 41 May 2008 - a set on Flickr

If PAF does not want to attend Red Flag because of its social, political and media backlash (for example, Pakistani and American joint exercise at a time when the Americans are being overly aggressive towards us), a way out would be to participate in the Maple Flag, where they will get the same quality experience without the political ammunition for opposers, though other issues will remain.

Unfortunately for me, Maple Flag is held in Cold Lake, Alberta, which is 2500km from Toronto. Not exactly driving distance.

This show how Passionate you really are for Fighter Planes. I hope One day you Witness a Nice Aerobatics show and Some Live Firing by Jets in an Exercise.

Your Above Mentioned suggestion are really great and i must appreciate your Concern for PAF to have some High Quality Exercises with USAF. Your Posts show that you are truly a Great Patriot and Admirer of PAF.

Pakistan and American relations are somewhat cold again and i don't think Pakistan wants to have some Military Exercises with the Americans in the near Future.

China and Turkey are our Trusted and Valued Friends and I think Pakistan is shifting her Focus to Turkey for western Technology and Training and Pakistan seeks Russian Technology and Training Through China.

 

[PAFAce]

This show how Passionate you really are for Fighter Planes. I hope One day you Witness a Nice Aerobatics show and Some Live Firing by Jets in an Exercise.

Your Above Mentioned suggestion are really great and i must appreciate your Concern for PAF to have some High Quality Exercises with USAF. Your Posts show that you are truly a Great Patriot and Admirer of PAF.

Pakistan and American relations are somewhat cold again and i don't think Pakistan wants to have some Military Exercises with the Americans in the near Future.

China and Turkey are our Trusted and Valued Friends and I think Pakistan is shifting her Focus to Turkey for western Technology and Training and Pakistan seeks Russian Technology and Training Through China.

You are correct. Especially if India chooses to go the American/European way for the MRCA, the Russian option will be wide open to us. As for China and Turkey, both these countries count us as their very close allies, so we should definitely return the favour.

As soon as we induct our Block 52s and have sound control over them, I think we should take them out for a high stakes exercise like the Anatolian Eagles and Maple Flag. As for the JF-17s and FC-20s, after our pilots have mastered them, we should organize high-quality joint exercises with China, with invitations to other allied countries (ex. Turkey, Bangladesh, UAE, KSA etc.)

This way, we will be able to put up our aircraft with aircraft of the same basic types as those of our regional rival because we will be able to compare our jets' capabilities directly with planes like the J-11s, J-10s, F-16s, F-18s, Mirage-2000s etc. By going up against these aircraft we will be able to evolve sound short and long term strategy to counter anything the regional rival may throw at us.

By the way, the Maple Flag pictures were not taken by me. I have never been to Alberta, it is just too damn far away. InshAllah, I will plan a roadtrip with some of my friends in the summer and we may be able to catch the Maple Flag exercise next time around.