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Rather than buying more Arjun tanks, IA to spend billions on T-72

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Rather than buying more Arjun tanks, Indian Army to spend billions on refurbishing outdated T-72s
An Iraqi T-72 fires a broadside at a target in the desert. The Indian Army will be spending about Rs 5000 crores on modernising its aging T-72 for serving another 15-20 years.


By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard,

The Indian Army chief’s dismaying disclosure last month, that India’s tank fleet was largely incapable of fighting at night, highlighted only a part of the problem with the Russian T-72, the army’s main tank. In fact, the T-72 is in far worse shape than General Deepak Kapoor let on.

Another signal of the T-72’s obsolescence was its recent withdrawal, by the army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), from next month’s comparative trials with the indigenous Arjun tank. An embarrassed DGMF has realized that, without major refurbishing, the T-72 was not in the Arjun’s class.

But in the army’s long-term planning, the T-72 --- which the more advance T-90 will replace only gradually --- will continue to equip almost half of the army’s 59 tank regiments as far in the future as 2022.

Business Standard has accessed a sheaf of technical reports and funding requests that actually quantify the state of the T-72. Exactly 32 years have passed since the first T-72s arrived in India; army guidelines stipulate 32 years as the service life of a tank. The earliest tanks from the army’s 2418-strong T-72 inventory should have already been retired, making way for a more modern tank, such as the T-90 or the Arjun.

Instead, the DGMF --- longstanding advocates of Russian equipment --- plans to spend Rs 5 crores per T-72, hoping to add another 15-20 years to that tank’s service life by replacing crucial systems, such as its fire control system, main engine and night vision devices.

The military’s Annual Acquisition Plan for 2008-2010 (AAP 2008-10) lists out the cost of modernizing the T-72 fleet as follows:

• New 1000-horsepower engines (identical to the T-90 tank) to replace the T-72’s old 780 horsepower engines. The cost of each engine: Rs 3 crores.

• Thermal Imaging Fire Control Systems (TIFCS) that will allow the T-72 gunners to observe, and fight at night. Each TIFCS will cost Rs 1.4 crores.

• Thermal Imaging (TI) sights to provide T-72 tank commanders with night vision. Each TI sight costs Rs 0.4 crores.

• An auxillary power unit (APU) to generate power for the tank’s electrical systems. Each APU will cost Rs 0.16 crores.

The Rs 5 crore cost of upgrading each T-72 knocks out the argument that the T-72 --- at Rs 9 crores apiece --- is value-for-money. Retrofitting upgraded systems will escalate the cost of the T-72 to Rs 14 crores. In contrast, a brand new Arjun, with a 1500 horsepower engine, state-of-the-art integrated electronics, and the indigenous, widely praised Kanchan armour, can be had for a marginally more expensive Rs 16.8 crores.

“It is folly to stick with Russian tanks despite having developed the Arjun, and the design capability to continuously improve it?” says Lt Gen Ajai Singh, who headed the army’s Directorate of Combat Vehicles before becoming Governor of Assam. “India can tailor the Arjun to our specific requirements and continuously upgrade the tank to keep it state-of-the-art. Why upgrade old T-72s? It is time to bring in the Arjun.”

The T-72’s galloping obsolescence is magnified by the MoD’s failure to overhaul tanks on schedule: some 800 T-72s are years overdue for overhaul. Originally, each T-72 was to be overhauled twice during its service life of 32 years. But as the overhaul agencies --- the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi; and 505 Army Base Workshop, Delhi --- failed to meet their overhaul targets of 70 and 50 tanks respectively, the army decided that one overhaul was good enough. And with even that schedule not implemented, a desperate MoD has approached Indian industry to play a role in overhauling the T-72 fleet.

The total expenditure on the T-72 tank, budgeted for AAP 2008-10, is over Rs 5000 crores. The cost of overhaul has not been accurately determined.
 
This is how are honest politicos and babus will insure that our top of the line arjun is killed and the antique T-72 will get funds.The cost will be payed by our aam janta who is too busy to bother and by our brave soldiers (not generals)
 
This is how are honest politicos and babus will insure that our top of the line arjun is killed and the antique T-72 will get funds.The cost will be payed by our aam janta who is too busy to bother and by our brave soldiers (not generals)

Its not only the Babus.
Its the Army itself.

Navy is happy with Indian made subs and aircraft carriers.
Airforce is happy with LCA, LCH and Akash.

But why all the issues are with this "rather easy to make"army Tank?

Hope Antony thinks otherwise and this position is changed.
 
Come on give the army a break, i know we'd all live to see the Arjun get the orders, but lets first wait and see what the results of the trials are. For my part we all know the Arjun has a few issues that need to be resolved, but you cant expect a country to create new weapon system like a MBT and get it perfect the first time round (the us and germany i think were working on a joint venture MBT in the 70s that had to be abandoned b4 they developed the m1 and L2 respectivly).
Now for the issue of upgrading the t72s, India already has over 2500 of them and buying a Arjun is the eqv of upgrading 3 t72s. My personal option would be to upgrade 1000 of the latest t72s (canabilising parts from the older tanks that may not be worth upgrading), replacing 1000 t72s with t90s (built in india) and buying 500 Arjun mrk2s that i am sure they get right considering the experience they have now.
The t72s can then be replaced by the advanced next gen tank that the army wants at a later date (hopefully this time they include the private sector in the design and manufacture process), anyway thats my pennies worth, hope I didn't bore you.
 
Some Photo's Arjun

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Cost of upgrading Tinpot-72=14 crores.
cost of new top line Arjun=17 crores.
Are we fools.What do these netas think.
Ramp up production of Arjun from 50 per year to 150 per year.Upgrade minimum Tinpot-72 to Tank EX AKA KARAN by DRDO which already has a working prototype, so at least jobs stay in India and foreign exchange not wasted.
Tinpot -90 is itself a upgradation of Tinpot-72, not a new tank, no further purchases.
Introduce the even bigger beast ARJUN MK2.
Induct large nos. of ATGM's prefeably using technology from Nag or import if not possible to develop so early.
 
As far as trials are concerned the Arjun was put to trial against the Tinpot-72. When the tinpot hit arjun it did not budge but when the Arjun hit the tinpot it blasted not only one side of tinpot-72 but came out the other side and went into the sand.The israilis who were present were speechless and ultimately could not find words to express themselves.No wonder people laugh at us when they see our corrupt leaders. All this is open source info. Anyody who doesnt believe me should start reading through google and spend 2-3 hrs till they are satisfied. Read about the kanchan armour which is used by ISRO for its rockets
 
As far as trials are concerned the Arjun was put to trial against the Tinpot-72. When the tinpot hit arjun it did not budge but when the Arjun hit the tinpot it blasted not only one side of tinpot-72 but came out the other side and went into the sand.The israilis who were present were speechless and ultimately could not find words to express themselves.No wonder people laugh at us when they see our corrupt leaders. All this is open source info. Anyody who doesnt believe me should start reading through google and spend 2-3 hrs till they are satisfied. Read about the kanchan armour which is used by ISRO for its rockets

so 1000mm penatration for the shot from the Arjun?
(500 mm estamite for the t-72 thus 1000 for 2 sides)

for comparison, M1A1 with 3rd gen DU round get about ~800 mm penetration.

already better than the americans i see.
 
Indian Army wants to Retain 1400 T72 until at least 2020.. So the 5000 core you mention is to upgrade 1400 of the current 2000+ T72s

Indian army will also induct 1300 T90 by 2020 then they have currently about 400 ..

This will give india 2700 T72 upgraded/T90 battle tanks

Additionally to this I can guarantee NOW that India will induct 500 Arjun tanks

124 CURRENT ORDER nearly complete and a follow on order of 380 tanks between 2013-2020.
 
i believe we have made a laughing stock of ourselves....we seem so determined to embarrass ourselves in front of the world...its so stupid and annoying to see wiki experts taking a dig at our indigenous defense equipments based on the blind eye of the army top management and overtly critical media....guess army was caught with its pants down when arjun outperformed their new darling t90s in all aspects...still the order book stands at 248 against 640 for t90s n to add to insult a huge order to revamp age old t72s ....high time we take our own selves....:hitwall:
 
What is that You all Consider Army to be, Come dont be so Critical about the Army People.... T-72 is a Formidable MBT, And If Upgraded We could Get its Life span Increased..... More Life span means More space for Accommodating Arjun MK I , Arjun MK II and FMBT.....

T-72 is upgraded inorder to Give CVRDE and DRDO time to come out with Arjun MK2 and FMBT as we would rather have more space to accommodate them without Loosing the pace of modernization and Strength

Arjun is a Good Tank, And the army has ordered 248 of them, and When Arjun MK2 and FMBT are under development wont it be foolish on the part of Army to Stuff in more Arjun MK1, and decrease the room for The future MBT's Of Ours???
 
What is that You all Consider Army to be, Come dont be so Critical about the Army People.... T-72 is a Formidable MBT, And If Upgraded We could Get its Life span Increased..... More Life span means More space for Accommodating Arjun MK I , Arjun MK II and FMBT.....

T-72 is upgraded inorder to Give CVRDE and DRDO time to come out with Arjun MK2 and FMBT as we would rather have more space to accommodate them without Loosing the pace of modernization and Strength

Arjun is a Good Tank, And the army has ordered 248 of them, and When Arjun MK2 and FMBT are under development wont it be foolish on the part of Army to Stuff in more Arjun MK1, and decrease the room for The future MBT's Of Ours???

Sir whay are you replying to a article by some blogger in february

Broadsword: Rather than buying more Arjun tanks, Indian Army to spend billions on refurbishing outdated T-72s

when more recent news like this are there..

http://logisticsweek.com/events/2010/08/indian-army-to-acquire-124-advanced-arjun-tanks/



:what::what::what::what:
 
While some of us might be living in delusioned world that Arjun did better than T90. I had first hand conversation with people in Army, I was told that actually reverse is true. All Ajay Sukhla write is fake and made up. He told me Arjun is better than T72 but not T90. Army is not allowed to counter their claims as information is confidential. He also told Arjun is costlier than T90. The view is also that it is ok to have Arjun to create local industry.
 

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