Pak Navy Interest in Chinese Sub & Frigates

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by Mani2020, Jun 26, 2011.

Share This Page

  1. Mani2020
    Offline

    Mani2020 SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,111
    Ratings:
    +0 / 9,190 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan

    That was just a bit misplacement of the words as already told by pshamim . What it meant was that the new Qing class submarines will house AIP system which was not present on the Preceded ones
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. mughaljee
    Offline

    mughaljee FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,424
    Ratings:
    +0 / 3,705 / -0
    Latest Classification QING class submarines ?
    If available ?
    & one more thing, Please tell me where this submarine stands in front of U-214 German ?
  3. Mani2020
    Offline

    Mani2020 SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,111
    Ratings:
    +0 / 9,190 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Not much technical details of Qing class submarine are available as of now so comparing it with U-214 submarines or any other submarine is difficult but i can share few things with you by comparing them with U-214

    Qing class is much bigger in size that U-214, its displacement when submerged is 3600 tons (though many claim it to be around 6000 tons) compared to the 1860 tons of U-214. The important factors is that many classified features of U-214 are not available for export while in the case of Qing subs everything will be offered to PN

    And above all the ability of Qing class to fire land attack cruise missiles and nuclear warheads is a significant boost to PN which in case of U-214 was not an available option
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  4. wasm95
    Offline

    wasm95 FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,068 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    i know about 6 subs but there r many sources some r saying 4 frigates and some are saying 2
    but we know that we will not getting any more ohp so it is possible that the number of frigates increases to more than 4
  5. Mani2020
    Offline

    Mani2020 SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,111
    Ratings:
    +0 / 9,190 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Courtesy pshamim

    In the aftermath of U-214 saga, new information is coming out. Whereas there may be many more reasons for not buying them, two factors that were mentioned were German's unwillingness to reduce the price which Pakistan wanted to pay. The other factor was the Hydrogen based AIP system in German submarine. According to sources, PN's Augostas are equipped with MESMA system which uses liquid Oxygen.

    System in Agosta has a closed loop steam powered powerplant. Energy is derived from by using a mixture of liquid Oxygen and some special fuel which are stored in cryogenic tanks under low pressures. These special cryogenic tanks were developed by a French company "Air likud" as a result of lessons learned and knowledge gained in French Ariane rocket booster program. This is a great example of successful combination of spae and maritime shipbuilding technology.

    The greatest advantage of this technology is the ability of Agostas to refuel at any port or Naval Base where liquid Oxygen is abundantly found easily than a Hydrogen and the complex system used to refuel the system with it. At most of the ports, liquid Hydrogen is not even available. Mesma and the new battery has enabled Navy to create space and introduce automation thus reducing the crew's streangth from 54 to 36. Also Agosta's range , its marginal depth through the use of new construction material, and maneuverability and combat capabilities are much higher. The noice level has also reduced significantly.

    It is said that the specifications developed by PN engineers for Chinese to implent in the Qing class submarines for PN are the result of their knowledge and lessons learned on their experience with Agostas.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. fatman17
    Offline

    fatman17 PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    16,851
    Ratings:
    +9 / 16,049 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    in the end the main issue was finances and the cash strapped GoP couldnt fork out the advance deposit of US$300m. the PN would have anyway opted for the MESMA AIP which would have bumped up the price-tag.
  7. Donatello
    Offline

    Donatello PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,645
    Ratings:
    +3 / 2,969 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    i recently took a trip down to Toyota Motors dealership and the Shahnwaz (Mercedes-Benz Pakistan) dealership in Karachi and they showed me the invoice for the number of vehicles that GoP ordered or were pending.....surprisingly the guys said that the GoP Checks for such vehicles are never dishonored......meaning GoP has all the money to buy $100,000 Cars for it's ministers....and armed forces...yet we cannot dish out 300 Million $ for advancement of our defence abilities.

    By the look of our politician and armed forces protocol we are a rich country......but when it comes to buying military hardware....we turn into a third world country......i wonder why the hypocrisy....


    Pakistan can very easily purchase all the Western tech....but we will only do so when the people involved in such deals....Generals....Admiral.....Air marshal all feel they are getting good amount of cash......stowed somewhere in Switzerland.....

    Slightly off topic.....but my 2 cents.
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  8. fatman17
    Offline

    fatman17 PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    16,851
    Ratings:
    +9 / 16,049 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    it has more to do than just kickbacks u r talking about.
  9. very
    Offline

    very BANNED

    New Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Ratings:
    +0 / 16 / -0
    Oh Ive been waiting so anxiously to get these subs in the PN. I am also looking forward to the PN to develop its infrastructure to manufacture them at our own facilities in the very near future.
  10. Donatello
    Offline

    Donatello PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,645
    Ratings:
    +3 / 2,969 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sir Fatman....i highly respect your comments and insight regarding Pakistani Armed Forces, but believe me what i speak is my personal Experience....see to believe type of thing.......i don't google stuff up...and paste here.

    I have met many Senior officers at many occasions.........i know what i am talking about......i even know the person responsible for the U214 German program for PN and what happened there....but as the person is my close relative i cannot risk letting anyone know over the internet....

    Let's stay on topic....thank you!
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. PakShaheen79
    Offline

    PakShaheen79 SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,679
    Ratings:
    +0 / 745 / -0
    Agosta is proven platform and some times i wounder why PN just didn't opt for building more of these along with procuring Chinese subs?
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. Donatello
    Offline

    Donatello PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,645
    Ratings:
    +3 / 2,969 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    We bought decent amount of Agostas for the size of our Navy....i mean Agosta 70 and then 90Bs......but it's time to move on to newer tech....Qing class offer way more payload and space........something to look for when you need Subs patrolling deep in the ocean.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. T-Rex
    Offline

    T-Rex SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,898
    Ratings:
    +0 / 2,223 / -0
    How big are these Qing class subs when compared with Agosta subs? How deep can they dive?
  14. wasm95
    Offline

    wasm95 FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,068 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    double the size s agosta 9ob
  15. muse
    Offline

    muse PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,074
    Ratings:
    +0 / 12,452 / -0
    What's that mean "proven" - how so? Can it fire Pakistani cruise missiles?