PAF and Next Generation Fighter Program Confirmed

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by S10, Aug 6, 2011.

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  1. cloneman
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    cloneman FULL MEMBER

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    As I said,the WS-13 is basically a copy of the RD-93.You can claim the WS-13 has its Chinese core,but only a Chinese core.The rest part it has too many RD-33/93 ideas and components,that's why the artical below claims that the WS-13 is a "secretly copy and reverse-enginering of the RD-93".After reading the artical below you can tell us what the WS-13 left except its Chinese core?

    涡扇13(WS13)
    牌号 涡扇13
    命名 “天山”发动机
    用途 军用涡扇发动机
    类型 涡轮风扇喷气发动机
    国家 中国
    总设计师 江和甫
    研制单位 中国燃气涡轮研究院
    厂商 成都发动机制造公司/贵州黎阳航空发动机公司

    装机对象 FC-1 FC-1(国内型) 第二代FC-1
    第四代中型准隐身战斗机J-12的验证机





    螺旋式发展,有一个良好的发展平台,逐步发展.


    WS-13“天山”涡扇发动机是为满足出口FC-1而研制的一种先进双转子加力式涡扇发动机。原来在发动机项目开始的时候,代号为“天山--21”,在2005年的春天,原型机点火的时候,正式决定赋予内部编号为WS-13,研制时代号为“天山”.


      对于巴基斯坦来说,JF-17雷电战机用俄罗斯的RD-93发动机是一个噩梦。JF-17雷电战机的RD-93发动机依然不牢靠,印度装备相当数量的米格-29战机,一旦接受俄制米格-35战机,印度将施加很大的压力,来阻止俄方向中国出售用于JF-17战机的RD-93发动机。印度的126架战机全球大采购计划,吸引俄方的米格-35积极参与竞标活动。印度方面已经从俄方获得RD-33发动机的生产许可。RD-93发动机的售后服务体系,还有RD-93发动机的大修方面,巴基斯坦的JF-17雷电战机用俄罗斯的RD-93发动机,能得到俄罗斯的售后服务么?不能啊.


    之所以巴基斯坦签署研制S-7/FC-1飞机合同,说明国内必有一款与RD-93类似的发动机,着就是624所的天山-21发动机。
    其实FC-1从开始就计划使用国产发动机,RD-93不过是试验机、预量产机阶段的临时用品,其测绘半仿制工作早已经展开。整个生产计划500多台的发动机订单,我们可不会轻易交给别人的。

    有很多人认为天山-21(天山)就是RD-33/93的仿制品,而国内的权威刊物则称该发动机是中推核心机的发展型,但笔者认为天山-21既不可能是仿制品,要知道“克里莫夫”并没有直接转让全部RD-93发动机的生产技术,也不可能就是简单的来自中推核心机,它极有可能是参照了RD-33/93的设计,在中推核心机的基础上研制出来的,在研制过程中,天山-21(天山)大量的吸取了“高性能推进系统预研”和“推重比10的航空发动机预研”中所取得的技术成果,就是用RD-33/93的核心机技术来改造中推核心机,天山-21(天山)的加力燃烧室和尾喷管参照了RD-33/93的加力燃烧室和尾喷管的结构设计,并做了进一步改进。其实是隐蔽的测绘仿制的RD-93发动机.
    涡扇13“天山”发动机是根据中国一航的总体部署,按照“共同投资、共同发展、共担风险、共享利益”的四共原则研制的中等推力双轴涡扇发动机.为了按期完成该发动机研制,中国一航组织了十分雄厚的科技力量。中国燃气涡轮研究院为总设计师单位,贵州黎阳航空发动机公司和成都发动机(集团)有限公司为主承制单位,西安发动机(集团)有限公司为主要协同单位.



    2000年初中国燃气涡轮研究院开始对RD-33发动机进行系统的“技术摸透”工作。其深远意义在于为测绘仿制或自行设计先进的发动机打下一个坚实牢固的基础。“技术摸透”的步骤,首先是根据仿制需要,摸清主要的生产技术问题,包括技术关键和材料;其次是仿制,通过必要的试验研究,摸透其设计思想、设计方法和技术特点。中国燃气涡轮研究院在对RD-33发动机的“技术摸透”中,主要组织完成了RD-33的高压压气机、燃烧室、涡轮三大核心部件等比例的测绘仿制的工作.进行理论方法、计算方法和试验方法的探索研究;以突破先进部件关键技术为主,重点围绕三大高压部件等比例全尺寸试验件的工程设计,试制与试验以及其相关的强度、控制等系统进行综合应用研究,在三大核心部件的测绘仿制中,大胆倡导采用了航空动力许多前沿设计技术成果和大量应用新材料、新工艺,从而突破了120余项关键技术。 在此阶段,上级拨给的研究经费少的可怜,不过得到巴基斯坦方面的大力支持,并给于了一定的研究经费.

    全面研制工作于2003年10月中旬开始,2003年10月中旬~2005年3月完成发动机个零部件的试制工作及试验。2004年底核心机首次试验,对核心机进行了大量的地面和高空性能试验,对可靠性与耐久性方面的进行大量试验,大幅度的提高热端部件寿命,为此在整机试验前安排了包括风扇 、压气机、燃烧室、涡轮、加力燃烧室等部件试验,以及转子动力学等技术支持性试验。目的是通过这些措施最大限度避免设计错误引起的反复,从而缩短研制周期,降低研制风 险。2005年4月14日原型机首次点火成功,并首次运转并开始地面台架试车。试飞前规定试验于2006年5月完成, 于2006年5月底,在FC-1上进行首飞,定于2008年7月完成设计定型试验。定于2009年8月完成生产定型试验。由于FC-1没有得到空军及国家赋予的正式编号,所以为其研制的发动机也没有国家的正式编号,所以中国燃气涡轮研究院赋予的代号为“天山”.编号为WS-13,

    风扇是采用中推核心机(验证机)和高推预研中的风扇研究成果设计的一种3级整体叶盘结构的风扇。由于运用三维计算流体力学进行设计,风扇效率显著提高,压比为3.2;采用整体叶盘,消除了燕尾槽和阻尼凸台等处的应力集中,简化了结构,减少了零件数,减轻了重量,减少了泄漏,在中推核心机的基础上,大量的融入了RD-33的核心机技术及高推计划中所取得的技术成果,强化了可靠性及耐久性, 在测绘仿制RD-33的高压压气机的基础上结合中推核心机的高压压气机,将RD-33的九级高压压气机改为7级高压压气机, 加力燃烧室和尾喷管从“RD-33”发动机的设计方案衍生而来,并改进了冷却技术和重新设计了部分结构设计,使结构更简单,减轻了重量,提高使用寿命寿命、同时维修性也得到改善,降低了使用和维护成本,发动机由10个单元体组成.在研制中,大量的应用该所过去的中推核心机(验证机)以及高推预研中所取得一系列先进技术成果.


    结构和系统 发动机由10个单元体组成

    进 气 口 环形。带16个可调进口导流叶片,其前部为径向支板,后部为可调部分, 前缘则以来自高压压气机的空气防冰.

    风扇 3级轴流式。第1级风扇叶片可拆换,带有中间凸台。第2和第3级风扇为焊接成整体的叶盘结构。增压比约为3.2。3级静子和转子均为 三维流设计.

    高压压气机 六级轴流式。转子为电子束焊和螺栓连接的混合结构,采用三维流技术设计.带进口导流叶片,零~二级静叶可调。静子部分,进 口导流叶片和第1、2级静叶为可调叶片,增压比7.86。前2级盘用高温钛合金制成,用电子束焊焊为一体,第 3~ 5级盘由镍基高 温合金制成,将盘和叶片用电子束焊焊为一体的整体叶盘结构。第6级盘则为单盘,由粉末冶金制成,用长螺栓前与5级盘 连在一起 。 所有共3级的榫头均为环形燕尾槽式榫头. 钛合金整体中介机匣和对开的压气机机匣, 前段为钛合金,后段为钢。设有孔探仪窥 孔,用以观察转子和其他部件。

    燃 烧 室 短环形, 燃油经20个双锥喷嘴和20个小涡流杯喷出并雾化,实现无烟燃烧,具有均匀的出口温度场。两个点火装置。火焰筒采用激 光打孔的多孔结构进行冷却.

    高压涡轮 单级轴流式,不带冠。采用气膜冷却加冲击冷却方式。转子叶片和导向器叶片材料均为单晶材料,叶身上有物理气相沉积的隔热涂层 。机匣内衬扇形段通过冷却空气进行叶尖间隙控制。转子叶片和导向器可单独更换。涡轮部件采用单元体结构设计 ,由涡轮转子、 导向器、涡轮机匣、涡轮后机匣和轴承机匣等五个组件组成。


    低压涡轮  单级轴流式,带冠。空心气冷转子叶片,转子叶片均可单独更换,导向器叶片可分段更换。


    加力燃烧室 系 “RD-33”发动机的设计方案衍生而来,火焰稳定器36根径向稳定器组成。径向稳定器用 风扇空气 冷却 。用回旋式混合器使内、外涵气流有效混合,分3区供 油,三区供油。起动区为喷嘴环,置于环形稳定器内。另外两区为喷油杆,采用“热射流”方式点火。防振措施为全长防振屏,防振屏为纵向波纹,

    尾 喷 管 收敛-扩张型。由“RD-33”发动机的改型而来。喷口面积由液压作动筒和作动环控制,主、副喷管的调节板分三段铰接,在凸轮和 滚柱上移动,以调节喷口面积。喷管外壳材料为焊接的钛合金.


    控制系统 双通道全权数字电子控制系统(FADEC),按风扇转速和核心机压比调节发动机工作,有故障隔离功能。


    技术数据

    最大加力推力(daN)     8637

    中间推力(daN)      5675

    加力耗油率(kg/daN/h)   2.03

    中间状态耗油率(kg/daN/h)     0.685 ?

    推重比          8.1 (按国际上一般规定计算)

    空气流量(kg/s)      82

    涵道比          0.382

    总增压比         23

    涡轮进口温度(℃)     1377

    最大直径(mm)       1080

    长度(mm)(喷口全开时)       4160

    质量(kg)         1111.2
  2. [--Leo--]
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    [--Leo--] FULL MEMBER

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    Any News from pakistan's officals that they confirm this i m really confused that is this true or not beacuse i did n,t heard from any news channal in pakistan we all knows this is big project and the news can,t be kept secret if is that true i m happiest person on pakistan it finally began 1 more thing that is pakistan and china sign the MoM of stealth fighter is that the 1 they sign for and is it the future version of JF-17 or new project
  3. nescafe
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    nescafe FULL MEMBER

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    just for enthusiasm,

    [​IMG]
  4. Pak1Samurai
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    Pak1Samurai FULL MEMBER

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    wht a news Long Live CHINA & PAKISTAN :china: :pakistan: :china: :pakistan:
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  5. Horus
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    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    Thinking of this being true for a moment , it is a highly important development as if the design has been presented to PAF it means that PAF can turn around and chip in their own expertise in aviation design and it also means that PAF would be involved from the drawing board to the final stages of the air craft development.

    If true it would be an honor for PAF to be a lunch customer of nearly half a dozen Chinese air crafts in last 40 years or so.
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  6. IceCold
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    IceCold PDF VETERAN

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    PAF has nothing to contribute in a 5th generation fighter jet program. This has been said by the ACM as well. However if we are involved it will be a great learning experience for the PAF.
  7. S10
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    S10 SENIOR MEMBER

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    The news was posted from someone from CAC. I don't expect any official details to emerge for another few years due to secrecy surrounding the project.

    It's going to be an entirely different plane.
  8. Don Jaguar
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    Don Jaguar SENIOR MEMBER

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    Good news!!! :cheers: :pakistan: :china:
  9. houshanghai
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    houshanghai FULL MEMBER

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    I think there is every possibility of your being right

    bcz we still havet a turbofan engine like USA f135 class .
    SO it is quite possible that j2x will be a fighter with twin medium-class turbofan engine .Not a single WS15 engine fighter.

    some chinese medium-class turbofan engine infs from the most reliable of Chinese aerospace forums (9ifly).
    china have at least 3 medium-class turbofan engine are developing now.
    1.ws13 (86KN-55KN) first 100 have already gone into mass production.it will used to FC1 JL9 and UAV.


    2.ws12a(95KN new turbofan) Approved and initiated the project in June.2008. first flew on 4.April.2010.it will be used to chinese 5 gen carrier JXX , FC1\JFT variant or J2x (?)by the rumor.

    3.WS1X(108KN new turbofan)this project has been initiated in this year.


    btw.this inf should be a real inf,
    huzhigeng ,who is most reliable insider in china and All respect him for his infs .if you still don't believe the inf,you can take a look at huzhigeng's prediction of j20 in 2009.

    huzhigeng j20‘s prediction was translated by siegecrossbow and were posted in PDF
    link:
    http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/3218-j-10-fc-20-mrca-193.html#post1139316

    notice #2895 by siegecrossbow
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  10. S10
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    S10 SENIOR MEMBER

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    First look at FC-2 speculated designs by a magazine. Notice that while the confirmation of Pakistan's involvement is from concrete insider source, these pics are just magazine speculations and should not be taken as concrete facts.

    Canard design (scaled down J-20):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Conventional design based continuation of JF-17:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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  11. cloneman
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    cloneman FULL MEMBER

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    The 10800kgf medium class turbofan is very far from getting IOC,it's still in developing stage.The 9500kgf WS-XX is much more realistic which could begin to get massively produced in the coming five years.And it's the only option to power this medium class J-XX.But still,this project is highly depended on the foreign custormer's demand and requiement,if Pakistan and Egyption aks a singel engined 5th generation fighter,then we have to develop a F-135 level engine which means they have to wait to the 2020-2025 time frame;if they accept the two engined fighter,then I'm quite sure they can begine to recieve their fighter before 2020,maybe even earlier.
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  12. houshanghai
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    houshanghai FULL MEMBER

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    Let me make a quick summary[​IMG]


    single WS15 engine version j2x

    virtues: cheap,easy maintenance.

    defects: weapon-bay carries little less weight in bombs,engine have a very high order, it is difficult to research and develop.(ex:f35)

    twin-medium class ws1x engine version j2x
    virtues:it is more easy to research and develop than the single WS15 engine version .weapon-bay can carrie much more weight in missile and bombs.engine is not a problem.
    defects;more expensive than single WS15 engine version.maintenance cost will increase .

    Any way ,Ultimately J2X still depends how PAF and CAC select &abandon these j2x programme of single or twin engine,canards or conventional design.
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  13. Battle Axe
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    Battle Axe FULL MEMBER

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    News is good. It will be a great learning curve if we are involved and even if not, we have two 5th Gen Fighters to choose from. I personally opine that PAF should go for the single-engined J-XX and 3 squardons atleast, but that's too early to talk of.

    Moreover, good to see a plethora of wngines being researched or manufactured across the border. Looking for ToTs there...
  14. SBD-3
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    SBD-3 ELITE MEMBER

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    One thing worth considering, is developing a 5th Gen exclusively for export good idea? if CAC develops one with view that third world countries would like it than actually how much clientele is China looking at, the countries currently using 2nd and 3rd Gen platforms wont necessarily jump to 4th Gen. Most of the african countries which are traditionally Chinese clients may not necessarily be able to afford 5th Gen even in small numbers unless we dont have a race to 5th Gen in Africa, They would be more than happy to house relatively more economical J-10s or FC-1 kind of aircraft to replace their 3rd gens. With smaller orders, the cost may even become prohibitive for countries who would be willing to buy. Like US who did not proceed to JSF without securing good customer base via partnership program. It may turn out to be very risky venture if CAC decides to go along without having confirmed demand.
  15. houshanghai
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    houshanghai FULL MEMBER

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    According to the J2X discussion of chinese forum now.
    you know j20 is very difficult to become a carrier fighter(ex:F22)
    So whether single engined or twin engined
    besides meet the PAF and other friendly countries's needs for the future.
    The J2X will still be an option of PLAN 5 gen carrier fighter and PLAAF low-cost 5 gen fighter by the rumor.
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