PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[Dazzler]

the original induction date of alkhalid 2 was 2017 IIRC, we are still in 2014. Also, in current scenario, AK, AK-1 are quite a handful in terms of general performance/ fighting capability.

View attachment 21720
Wel Indian Arjun looks alike like Germen Leopard tank isn't it....???

View attachment 21721

And Brahmos missile.... which Indian clain they made it... can any1 tell me about these please

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Anyone know about these cause many Indian claim that those are made in India...

stop posting offtopic stuff, these pics have nothing to do with the topic.

 

[godofwar]

I read an article long back stating aeroplanes have made tanks obsolete and redundant in modern wars since tanks are sitting ducks for fighter aircraft and even gunships if enemy has air superiority.

That is the reason why most nations a prioritizing huge sums of money on air force and meager amount on developing better tanks.

Thoughts ?

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

I read an article long back stating aeroplanes have made tanks obsolete and redundant in modern wars since tanks are sitting ducks for fighter aircraft and even gunships if enemy has air superiority.

That is the reason why most nations a prioritizing huge sums of money on air force and meager amount on developing better tanks.

Thoughts ?

If the enemy has air superiority, your whole army is a sitting duck. Doesn't mean that having armies is worthless..

Each force has its own role..and they must fight in an integrated manner...

Tanks are very important for land forces...

 

[Umair Nawaz]

@500
go through this thread from beginning.

 

[Asian.Century]

AK II has its own status, cannot be same as any other tank in its league. its the high end type of tank.

AK II is not MBT 3000/vt4.

 

[Super Falcon]

Agreed we need potent air force with complete air superiority in skies means hell of easy job for land forces war need to be won in skies than land

 

[ptldM3]

Penetration value is vastly overestimated, the 42m barely reaches 560mm at 0 degree @ 2000 m but then, you are from Russia right.

Penetration levels are dependent on rod penetrator density, velocity and mass. The T-90 uses munitions with varying factors for the three criteria i have mentioned. There is no set number to how much a projectile should penetrate. There is countless sources claiming Russian 125mm APFSDS munitions having 650mm-750mm penetration at 0 degrees.

Never did I say its FCS is bad or inaccurate but it is a basic system that works, doesn't offer anything significant as AK FCS does.

So then why claim the Al-Khalid is superior to the T-90 and then mention the T-90s fire control ballistics computer? The two tanks have never competed directly in field trials to come to any conclusion about how good, bad or basic the fire control computers are in terms of hit rate on either platform.

The armour is good, should I mention its components on the forum?

No one know the exact composition of the T-90s armor besides the developers and a handful of other people in their countries respective defense departments. If you can give some detailed specifics about the armor that would be a first.

And the gun is also good but max out at 2200m since the FCS does not support engagements beyond this, you see the hindrance here. And the interior is simply dreadful. I would take a type 59 interior any day over t90 and 72. There is no cooling, no ecs, no BMS, less than adequate space to even move your hand around.

Again, where did you get to go to sit inside a T-90? The Al-Khalid has a very small turret, its interior room is not much different from a T-90. There is an old rumor that you have to be a midget to fit inside a Russian tank something that Tom Clancy started. The T-90 is not the most roomy tank but the crew can move around just fine. Your other claim about cooling is false, T-90s do have AC units, some T-90s were sold without them upon customer request. I also do not know what you mean by ecs and bms but chances are good that what you said is not true.



CAG report reveals T-90 tanks are vulnerable to heat 'because they ...

The Russian T-90 tanks bought by India were rendered vulnerable as components showed signs of degradation under extreme heat as they were bought without air conditioners, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) said in its latest report.

The CAG noted that the tanks were procured without the ACs, ignoring the recommendation of the field trial teams.

Most of these tanks are deployed in the Rajasthan desert and it was felt that air conditioners were not required as Indian commanders preferred to operate their vehicles with open cupolas.

Here is a picture of a the T-90s gunner position. Granted this is a T-90MS but it is a T-90 nevertheless.

I can literally go on mate but keep it for later..

Lastly, none of this offtopic and both tanks were competing in the Saudi MBT tender once.

You can "literally" keep going but you will "literally" keep getting all of your information wrong. The T-90 was never in any Saudi tender and to the best of my knowledge Saudi Arabia has never even inspected a single T-90.

 

[ptldM3]

It was tested by the Army in 2007 and it failed due to the extremely hot weather



View attachment 210014 View attachment 210015

The T-90 operates in hot Indian deserts, T-72s and other Soviet tanks also operate in the middle east, it is not optimized or built for it but it can still operate in hot conditions. Tanks do not just "fail" in the desert, they may have problems with engines but they do not fail at least not every single one.

 

[Dazzler]

Penetration levels are dependent on rod penetrator density, velocity and mass. The T-90 uses munitions with varying factors for the three criteria i have mentioned. There is no set number to how much a projectile should penetrate. There is countless sources claiming Russian 125mm APFSDS munitions having 650mm-750mm penetration at 0 degrees.









So then why claim the Al-Khalid is superior to the T-90 and then mention the T-90s fire control ballistics computer? The two tanks have never competed directly in field trials to come to any conclusion about how good, bad or basic the fire control computers are in terms of hit rate on either platform.









No one know the exact composition of the T-90s armor besides the developers and a handful of other people in their countries respective defense departments. If you can give some detailed specifics about the armor that would be a first.










Again, where did you get to go to sit inside a T-90? The Al-Khalid has a very small turret, its interior room is not much different from a T-90. There is an old rumor that you have to be a midget to fit inside a Russian tank something that Tom Clancy started. The T-90 is not the most roomy tank but the crew can move around just fine. Your other claim about cooling is false, T-90s do have AC units, some T-90s were sold without them upon customer request. I also do not know what you mean by ecs and bms but chances are good that what you said is not true.



CAG report reveals T-90 tanks are vulnerable to heat 'because they ...












Here is a picture of a the T-90s gunner position. Granted this is a T-90MS but it is a T-90 nevertheless.




View attachment 210004










You can "literally" keep going but you will "literally" keep getting all of your information wrong. The T-90 was never in any Saudi tender and to the best of my knowledge Saudi Arabia has never even inspected a single T-90.

I am not in a mood the repeat myself, the interior pic is of a MS isn't it? Isn't that what instated in my post? The t-90 has addressed most of its problems in the MS version.

Regarding cooling and stuff, it is a fact that pre MS versions sold to different countries have serious problems with cooling as there is no standard ac fit in it. The Indian t-90 saga is a test case for that. Also, the peleng and essa sights are good but nothing to write home about.

Regarding the ammo, no one is discussing the anatomy of a penetrator mate but the end result. In fact, each test figures out 25 parameters and failing 15 out of the 25 will rule out the penetrator as a failure.till the bm-44, no Russian penetrator has crossed 600mm mark front on at 0 obliguity from 2000 meters. During tests, Pakistan also tested Ukrainian bm42 improved versions with new tungsten penetrator with 540mm value. Yes the length to diameter ratio is important but so is the material density and released velocity among other issues.

And the t-90 pre MS and M variant are pretty much known mate, and the Indians were even given early t-90s with old composite composition which infuririated them at best. Hence they are replacing them with kanchan inserts.

Regarding tests in Saudi Arabia, your claim is busted...

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

According to the Indian official reports T-90 tanks are vulnerable to heat 'because they don't have air conditioning' while in Al-Khalid air conditioning is standard. The Indians bought T-90 from Russia without air conditioning! The summer in South Asia lasts for nearly 10 months and that gives advantage to Al-Khalid.

 

[ptldM3]

Regarding cooling and stuff, it is a fact that pre MS versions sold to different countries have serious problems with cooling as there is no standard ac fit in it. The Indian t-90 saga is a test case for that. Also, the peleng and essa sights are good but nothing to write home about.

As the link i provided, India requested that their t-90s not come with air conditioning which they end up regretting. Russian T-90s's may not have air conditioning because it is not needed but it is available. The Algerian T-90s have air conditioning:




T-90 Main Battle Tank

The tanks intended for Algeria (designated T-90SA) are mostly similar to the Indian ones, except that the kit includes laser sensors and anti-FLIR smoke grenades of Shtora EOCMDAS, an air conditioner

Regarding the ammo, no one is discussing the anatomy of a penetrator mate but the end result. In fact, each test figures out 25 parameters and failing 15 out of the 25 will rule out the penetrator as a failure.till the bm-44, no Russian penetrator has crossed 600mm mark front on at 0 obliguity from 2000 meters. During tests, Pakistan also tested Ukrainian bm42 improved versions with new tungsten penetrator with 540mm value. Yes the length to diameter ratio is important but so is the material density and released velocity among other issues.

The bm-44 is almost 30 years old. The thing you fail to acknowledge is that not only have Russian APFSDF improved but so has the T-90 cannon. Even T-72's can be upgraded with new T-90 cannons. The new cannon has increased range, with increased range comes higher velocity. With higher velocity you get more penetration. Do you even know what type of cannon the BM-44 was fired from? If the BM-44 was fired out of an old lower velocity 2A46M its penetration values will be lower then then what is possible with modern T-90 cannons.


Even if you ignore the fact that there are sources claim up to 800mm penetration from Russian 125mm munitions it hard do deny that their are newer and better APFSDF rounds that are fired from higher velocity cannons. Your information is out of date.

Regarding tests in Saudi Arabia, your claim is busted...

You busted me. I said that "to the best of my knowledge" Saudi Arabia has never examined the T-90. Implying that it is possible but that to my knowledge if have not heard of it. In any case in do not keep up with what the Saudis test or what their requirements are. I always had my doubts about the T-90 being chosen by the Saudis even if they were to inspect it.

 

[Dazzler]

As the link i provided, India requested that their t-90s not come with air conditioning which they end up regretting. Russian T-90s's may not have air conditioning because it is not needed but it is available. The Algerian T-90s have air conditioning:




T-90 Main Battle Tank












The bm-44 is almost 30 years old. The thing you fail to acknowledge is that not only have Russian APFSDF improved but so has the T-90 cannon. Even T-72's can be upgraded with new T-90 cannons. The new cannon has increased range, with increased range comes higher velocity. With higher velocity you get more penetration. Do you even know what type of cannon the BM-44 was fired from? If the BM-44 was fired out of an old lower velocity 2A46M its penetration values will be lower then then what is possible with modern T-90 cannons.


Even if you ignore the fact that there are sources claim up to 800mm penetration from Russian 125mm munitions it hard do deny that their are newer and better APFSDF rounds that are fired from higher velocity cannons. Your information is out of date.








You busted me. I said that "to the best of my knowledge" Saudi Arabia has never examined the T-90. Implying that it is possible but that to my knowledge if have not heard of it. In any case in do not keep up with what the Saudis test or what their requirements are. I always had my doubts about the T-90 being chosen by the Saudis even if they were to inspect it.

First, i am not going to buy the claim that indians requested to EXCLUDE the AC from the deal, as if they didnt know the temperatures soar up to 55 degrees in summers, didnt they know it? Makes no sense.


The fact is that the Russians excluded several things as they wanted another contract to be signed, which the indians objected. Same was the case with ammo manufacturing for which the indians are paying the higher price now.

And please, there is no shell with 800mm penetration certified value in Russian inventory, including the Svinets. the autoloader is the limiting factor as it does not allow more then 740mm length for a penetrator. yes there were etstes with higher velocity guns but non of those are in service are they? The best is the M5 version on T-90 which is nothing but quality improvement over the previous improvements and higher barrel life reaching 700 EFC in 4*3*3 ration maximum.

 

[ZooZoo]

View attachment 21720
Wel Indian Arjun looks alike like Germen Leopard tank isn't it....???

View attachment 21721

And Brahmos missile.... which Indian clain they made it... can any1 tell me about these please

View attachment 21722

View attachment 21723 \

Anyone know about these cause many Indian claim that those are made in India...

Burn baby Burn...

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Burn baby Burn...

sorry m not Indian who burn LOL

 

[ZooZoo]

sorry m not Indian who burn LOL

One more time Burn