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Operation "Gibraltar" and "Grand Slam"

Yazp

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OPERATIONS GIBRALTAR & GRAND SLAM
This is Chapter 3 General Muhammad Musa's Autobiography. I thought you guys would have a good read.

“After the Government finally decided that deep raids should be launched in Indian-held Kashmir, I directed Commander 12 Division, Major-General Akhtar Husain Malik, to prepare a draft plan for the operation, code-named ‘GIBRALTAR’, in consultation with GHQ and within the broad concept we had specified. GHQ approved it after making certain changes in it. With the help of a sand model, he went over the final plan in Murree before it was put into effect on 7 August, 1965 under our overall control. The Supreme Commander and his Military Secretary were present. He also agreed with it. I was accompanied by the CGS (Major-General Sher Bahadur) and the Directors of Military Operations and Intelligence (Brigadiers Gul Hasan and Irshad Ahmed Khan respectively). No civil official attended this briefing.



“Broadly, the plan envisaged, on a short-term basis, sabotage of military targets, disruption of communications, etc and, as a long-term measure, distribution of arms to the people of occupied Kashmir and initiation of a guerilla movement there with a view to starting an uprising in the valley eventually. The push towards Akhnur was not part of it. However, it was considered as one of the likely operations that we might have to undertake, as we felt our activities would have an escalating effect. When Akhtar Malik was pointing out on the sand model the various targets of the raiding parties of Gibraltar, the President did say ‘why don’t you go for Akhnur also?’ Akhtar Malik replied that that, too, could be considered, but it was not raided because no Gibraltar force had been organized for that purpose. Nevertheless, when the Indians started attacking and capturing Azad Kashmir territory in Tithwal and Haji Pir Pass areas, we decided to hold them in these places and retaliate by threatening Akhnur through the Chhamb valley in order to release the pressure in the north.


“The Gibraltar force consisted of approximately 7,000 Mujahidin from Azad Kashmir. Most of it was given some guerilla training within the short time available before it was launched. It was armed with light machine guns and mortars, besides personal weapons, and was equipped with wireless sets. Light and very mobile, it successfully penetrated into the valley on a very wide front and raided means of communication, airfields, dumps etc, in some part of the occupied territory. Generally, although their performance was not altogether disappointing, the main aims for which the hazardous missions were entrusted to them were not accomplished. The freedom fighters returned to Azad Kashmir, mostly, after the cease-fire came into effect.



“It was not due to lack of valour or determination on the part of all those who took part in the operation, or their capacity to sustain great physical hardships nor to faulty planning and ineffective leadership at the various levels of command that the raids eventually petered out. Primarily, the reason was lack of necessary preparations in the valley for the extremely difficult tasks before they were undertaken. GHQ had clearly and repeatedly highlighted this vital aspect of it and their opposition to the Foreign Office proposal was based, mainly, on it.



“We hadn’t even consulted the public leaders across the cease-fire line about our aims and intention, let alone associating them with our planning for the clandestine war. They had to have a proper underground organization in the valley, which should have jointly planned the operation with us and should have remained in touch with us after it was started, so as to coordinate their activities with ours and arrange for the kind of assistance, such as provision of necessary information, guides, food, water, medical help, porters etc, the freedom fighters joining them from Azad Kashmir would have needed. As GHQ had assessed, and the operation proved, the Muslim population there, although, by and large, willing to help were unable to cooperate with us fully. Firstly, because they were not mentally prepared for it and, secondly, due to the presence of nearly five Indian infantry divisions and strong civil armed forces in occupied Kashmir they could not embark on such missions. In the circumstances in which we went in, it was pure wishful thinking on anyone’s part to expect them to risk their lives by trying to give us more than very limited support for a vague purpose in which they had practically no say.


“Because of the haste with which the operation was launched, even Azad Kashmir leaders were not taken into confidence by the advocates of guerilla raids. Helplessly, they remained in the background. Their co-operation was also very necessary and would have been very helpful. They could have assisted the Mujahidin in various ways by themselves and in conjunction with the Kashmiris of the valley.



“Supply of weapons, ammunition, rations, medicines etc, to the far flung areas presented difficult administrative problems. In the few areas where the raiders had penetrated deep into the occupied territory, we resorted to replenishing them by air from West Pakistan. Air drops of these stores and commodities entailed extremely dangerous flights, mostly, at night and in bad weather, in a highly mountainous area. Under such adverse conditions, the freedom fighters could not be properly maintained, although all concerned with this responsibility worked extremely hard and our dedicated and brave pilots took great risks. The raiding parties were thus constrained to make the best of an almost untenable situation and of whatever help they could get from the locals.
The Indian Army of occupation, nearly five times stronger than the force we had in Azad Kashmir, was very vigilant due to the agitation in the valley, and reacted strongly, as we had envisaged. Besides taking on the freedom fighters directly wherever it was possible, they attacked, in certain sectors, our troops on the cease-fire line. In a few places, they even crossed it to a limited extent with the avowed object of capturing ‘bases’ from which ‘raiders’ were launched. Their immediate aim might have been the seizure of these places, but, in order to achieve it, they would have had to try and capture a large part of Azad Kashmir where these launching areas were scattered, even if strategically they might not have liked to get involved in large scale fighting on our side of the cease-fire line. Thus, in our opinion, the Indian moves posed a serious threat to Azad Kashmir, which would have gravely imperiled the security of Pakistan as well. As an immediate measure, therefore, it was decided that elements of Azad Kashmir Regular Force and the local army units that could be spared should be used in support of the Mujahidin on, and across, the cease-fire line."

Battles of Chamb-Jaurian and Sialkot Sector:

19651.png

Here is a reproduction of the battle, Pakistan is Green, Kashmir is marked in Blue, and India is Red.
(Not to scale, nor everything is accurate here)
 
Well, I don't have the time to write down the whole book for you guys :dirol:
You can buy it if you want, It's called "My Version".
does it contain anythng on defence of lahore
 
Well, I don't have the time to write down the whole book for you guys :dirol:
You can buy it if you want, It's called "My Version".

Accha; this is another description of the use of "Non-State Actors" and other Terroristas in order to pursue "State Policies"!
 
OPERATIONS GIBRALTAR & GRAND SLAM
This is Chapter 3 General Muhammad Musa's Autobiography. I thought you guys would have a good read.

“After the Government finally decided that deep raids should be launched in Indian-held Kashmir, I directed Commander 12 Division, Major-General Akhtar Husain Malik, to prepare a draft plan for the operation, code-named ‘GIBRALTAR’, in consultation with GHQ and within the broad concept we had specified. GHQ approved it after making certain changes in it. With the help of a sand model, he went over the final plan in Murree before it was put into effect on 7 August, 1965 under our overall control. The Supreme Commander and his Military Secretary were present. He also agreed with it. I was accompanied by the CGS (Major-General Sher Bahadur) and the Directors of Military Operations and Intelligence (Brigadiers Gul Hasan and Irshad Ahmed Khan respectively). No civil official attended this briefing.



“Broadly, the plan envisaged, on a short-term basis, sabotage of military targets, disruption of communications, etc and, as a long-term measure, distribution of arms to the people of occupied Kashmir and initiation of a guerilla movement there with a view to starting an uprising in the valley eventually. The push towards Akhnur was not part of it. However, it was considered as one of the likely operations that we might have to undertake, as we felt our activities would have an escalating effect. When Akhtar Malik was pointing out on the sand model the various targets of the raiding parties of Gibraltar, the President did say ‘why don’t you go for Akhnur also?’ Akhtar Malik replied that that, too, could be considered, but it was not raided because no Gibraltar force had been organized for that purpose. Nevertheless, when the Indians started attacking and capturing Azad Kashmir territory in Tithwal and Haji Pir Pass areas, we decided to hold them in these places and retaliate by threatening Akhnur through the Chhamb valley in order to release the pressure in the north.


“The Gibraltar force consisted of approximately 7,000 Mujahidin from Azad Kashmir. Most of it was given some guerilla training within the short time available before it was launched. It was armed with light machine guns and mortars, besides personal weapons, and was equipped with wireless sets. Light and very mobile, it successfully penetrated into the valley on a very wide front and raided means of communication, airfields, dumps etc, in some part of the occupied territory. Generally, although their performance was not altogether disappointing, the main aims for which the hazardous missions were entrusted to them were not accomplished. The freedom fighters returned to Azad Kashmir, mostly, after the cease-fire came into effect.



“It was not due to lack of valour or determination on the part of all those who took part in the operation, or their capacity to sustain great physical hardships nor to faulty planning and ineffective leadership at the various levels of command that the raids eventually petered out. Primarily, the reason was lack of necessary preparations in the valley for the extremely difficult tasks before they were undertaken. GHQ had clearly and repeatedly highlighted this vital aspect of it and their opposition to the Foreign Office proposal was based, mainly, on it.



“We hadn’t even consulted the public leaders across the cease-fire line about our aims and intention, let alone associating them with our planning for the clandestine war. They had to have a proper underground organization in the valley, which should have jointly planned the operation with us and should have remained in touch with us after it was started, so as to coordinate their activities with ours and arrange for the kind of assistance, such as provision of necessary information, guides, food, water, medical help, porters etc, the freedom fighters joining them from Azad Kashmir would have needed. As GHQ had assessed, and the operation proved, the Muslim population there, although, by and large, willing to help were unable to cooperate with us fully. Firstly, because they were not mentally prepared for it and, secondly, due to the presence of nearly five Indian infantry divisions and strong civil armed forces in occupied Kashmir they could not embark on such missions. In the circumstances in which we went in, it was pure wishful thinking on anyone’s part to expect them to risk their lives by trying to give us more than very limited support for a vague purpose in which they had practically no say.


“Because of the haste with which the operation was launched, even Azad Kashmir leaders were not taken into confidence by the advocates of guerilla raids. Helplessly, they remained in the background. Their co-operation was also very necessary and would have been very helpful. They could have assisted the Mujahidin in various ways by themselves and in conjunction with the Kashmiris of the valley.



“Supply of weapons, ammunition, rations, medicines etc, to the far flung areas presented difficult administrative problems. In the few areas where the raiders had penetrated deep into the occupied territory, we resorted to replenishing them by air from West Pakistan. Air drops of these stores and commodities entailed extremely dangerous flights, mostly, at night and in bad weather, in a highly mountainous area. Under such adverse conditions, the freedom fighters could not be properly maintained, although all concerned with this responsibility worked extremely hard and our dedicated and brave pilots took great risks. The raiding parties were thus constrained to make the best of an almost untenable situation and of whatever help they could get from the locals.
The Indian Army of occupation, nearly five times stronger than the force we had in Azad Kashmir, was very vigilant due to the agitation in the valley, and reacted strongly, as we had envisaged. Besides taking on the freedom fighters directly wherever it was possible, they attacked, in certain sectors, our troops on the cease-fire line. In a few places, they even crossed it to a limited extent with the avowed object of capturing ‘bases’ from which ‘raiders’ were launched. Their immediate aim might have been the seizure of these places, but, in order to achieve it, they would have had to try and capture a large part of Azad Kashmir where these launching areas were scattered, even if strategically they might not have liked to get involved in large scale fighting on our side of the cease-fire line. Thus, in our opinion, the Indian moves posed a serious threat to Azad Kashmir, which would have gravely imperiled the security of Pakistan as well. As an immediate measure, therefore, it was decided that elements of Azad Kashmir Regular Force and the local army units that could be spared should be used in support of the Mujahidin on, and across, the cease-fire line."

Battles of Chamb-Jaurian and Sialkot Sector:

View attachment 243386


Here is a reproduction of the battle, Pakistan is Green, Kashmir is marked in Blue, and India is Red.
(Not to scale, nor everything is accurate here)

Let's hear from these gentlemen:

Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)



What do you have to say about 1965 war?

If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.

Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ

Cover Story


This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future


Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!


Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities




this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.


Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.

Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “

1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui
 
“The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF (Pakistani Air Force) mainly because the leadership was not as professional. They had planned the ‘Operation Gibralter’ (infiltration into J&K) for self glory rather than in the national interest. It was a wrong war. And they misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victim of Indian aggression.”

Air Marshal (Retd) Nur Khan quoted in ‘Dawn’ – Karachi. 6 Sep, 2005
 
Well, I don't have the time to write down the whole book for you guys :dirol:
You can buy it if you want, It's called "My Version".
Got any pdf version???
 
Let's hear from these gentlemen:

Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)



What do you have to say about 1965 war?

If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.

Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ

Cover Story


This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future


Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!


Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities




this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.


Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.

Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “

1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui

Another "harsh reality" of 1965: a force of 135 SSG Commandos were parachuted to carry out saboteur attacks on IAF airfields at Adampur Halwara and Pathankot. It proved to be an unmitigated disaster. Only 10 of the force returned while the paratroopers could not even make it to the airfield perimeters. They were rounded up by Punjabi farmers and handed over to the local police. The POWs included one of the commanders, Maj. Khalid Butt. After this disaster, the SSG was even disbanded for some time.
 
Got any pdf version???
Nope.

Another "harsh reality" of 1965: a force of 135 SSG Commandos were parachuted to carry out saboteur attacks on IAF airfields at Adampur Halwara and Pathankot. It proved to be an unmitigated disaster. Only 10 of the force returned while the paratroopers could not even make it to the airfield perimeters. They were rounded up by Punjabi farmers and handed over to the local police. The POWs included one of the commanders, Maj. Khalid Butt. After this disaster, the SSG was even disbanded for some time.
You seriously think that 135 Special forces can be rounded up by a bunch of Farmers?
Be realistic mate.

Let's hear from these gentlemen:

Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)



What do you have to say about 1965 war?

If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.

Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ

Cover Story


This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future


Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!


Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities




this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.


Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.

Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “

1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui
I would tell you something that would seriously destroy all of your fake claims, but then again that would be exposing a state secret.

Accha; this is another description of the use of "Non-State Actors" and other Terroristas in order to pursue "State Policies"!

No, This is my Great Grandfathers story, during the 1965 War which we won. If you would have won the war, Pakistan would not exist. Pakistan exists to date, even giving you nosebleeds like Kargil. If India is as powerful as it claims, why don't you try and invade us? We'll see what happens.
 
Nope.


You seriously think that 135 Special forces can be rounded up by a bunch of Farmers?
Be realistic mate.


I would tell you something that would seriously destroy all of your fake claims, but then again that would be exposing a state secret.



No, This is my Great Grandfathers story, during the 1965 War which we won. If you would have won the war, Pakistan would not exist. Pakistan exists to date, even giving you nosebleeds like Kargil. If India is as powerful as it claims, why don't you try and invade us? We'll see what happens.



Bacchoo, you don't know $hit about what happened in 1965, I was around then. Read up on the history of the SSG and you will know what happened. There are even pictures of the 'Paindoos' rounding up the Paras in the cane-fields! There was'nt so much "special" about that lot.

As for the "victory" I'll go with professionals like Maj. A.H.Amin, AM. M.Asghar Khan, AM. Nur Khan, Brig. Saeed Ismat and Col. S.G.Mehdi (Commander of the SSG) than listen to some"great-grandfather's fairy-tales" of imaginary things.

As for invasion.... who wants to invade a place where extremists are doing their damnedest to finish each other off. Nothing left for us to do now..... just get the :pop: and watch.
 
Bacchoo, you don't know $hit about what happened in 1965, I was around then. Read up on the history of the SSG and you will know what happened. There are even pictures of the 'Paindoos' rounding up the Paras in the cane-fields! There was'nt so much "special" about that lot.

As for the "victory" I'll go with professionals like Maj. A.H.Amin, AM. M.Asghar Khan, AM. Nur Khan, Brig. Saeed Ismat and Col. S.G.Mehdi (Commander of the SSG) than listen to some"great-grandfather's fairy-tales" of imaginary things.

As for invasion.... who wants to invade a place where extremists are doing their damnedest to finish each other off. Nothing left for us to do now..... just get the :pop: and watch.
its not important what you did or what you intended to do or what were your objectives once you fail to win what you went to war for

as they say "LARAI HARNE KE BAAD JO MUKKA YAAD AAYE USKO APNE HI MU PER MARNA CHIYE" but they still live in denial that they actualli lost the 1965 war as niether they were able to win back kashmir nor were able to force india for a truce in fact after USA refused to interviene for a "respectable truce for pakistan" both ayub khan and za bhutto went to USSR for the same and signed the "Tashkent Declaration"

Tashkent Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

rest keep talking :coffee:
 
Bacchoo, you don't know $hit about what happened in 1965, I was around then. Read up on the history of the SSG and you will know what happened. There are even pictures of the 'Paindoos' rounding up the Paras in the cane-fields! There was'nt so much "special" about that lot.

As for the "victory" I'll go with professionals like Maj. A.H.Amin, AM. M.Asghar Khan, AM. Nur Khan, Brig. Saeed Ismat and Col. S.G.Mehdi (Commander of the SSG) than listen to some"great-grandfather's fairy-tales" of imaginary things.
I'd suggest you keep a respectable stance with me, I'm not another one of your Subcontinental kin who'll brush it off as a joke. Plus, I was never rude to you nor did I disrespect you. However I do not blame you since obviously, nobody thought you about respect.
@WAJsal , @DESERT FIGHTER , Take a look at this guy.
 
It was completely bull $hit operation and this general is doing complete disservice to his country by white washing it.
 

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