JF-17 THUNDER - Ready To Tear The World Asunder!

Discussion in 'JF-17 Thunder' started by Manticore, Jan 22, 2012.

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  1. Manticore
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    Manticore SENIOR MODERATOR

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    JF-17 THUNDER - Ready To Tear The World Asunder!
    by [ANTIBODY]

    JF-17 is the only modern day lightweight fighter providing world class performance at low operating expenditures . This advanced fighter will be poised as a lower budget alternative for countries gearing up for the 21st century Net Centric Warfare Environment , especially for those who cannot afford the massive price tags of other similarly performing fighters.

    The fourth prototype saw major design upgrades, indicating that the capabilities required by the PAF for a baseline fighter had increased significantly. This prototype emerged as a potent BVR platform capable of undertaking precision strike, escort, interdiction, air patrol, reconnaissance and ant-ship roles. It can operate in dense, hostile electronic warfare environment thus ensuring the provision of deterrence against existing and future threats.

    The JF-17 evolved into a fighter with advanced aerodynamic features such as diverter-less supersonic inlets (DSI). DSI improved the performance, reduced weight and cut down the frontal radar cross section (RCS) of the fighter. Large Leading edge extension provided higher angle of attack and more lift to the mid mounted wings. It has impressive instantaneous and sustained turn rates. The flight control surfaces are operated by a computerised flight control system (FCS).The fighter has digital quad-redundant Fly-by-wire (FBW) system in the pitch axis and dual-redundant FBW system in the roll and yaw axis

    It's enhanced man-machine interface, advanced cockpit layout and good all round field of view reduce the work load of the pilot thus providing greater operational effectiveness. The pilot can access vital cockpit functions and fly the fighter without having to remove his hands from throttle and flight control.

    The cockpit has a smart Heads Up Display with a large field of vision and three large interchangeable smart Multifunctional displays. JF-17's electronics use dual redundant MIL-STD-1553B, MIL-STD-1760 architecture. The dual redundant mission computers are integrated with the MFDs and control one databus each. The pilot also fields a helmet mounted system of speculated Chinese origin.

    The KLJ-7 radar is a long range, multimode pulse doppler radar with look down shoot down capability. It can see forty targets, track ten of them and engage two simultaneously. An expanded electronic warfare equipment is accomodated in the tail fin. The JF-17 has a defensive aids system which incoporates various subsystems including a radar warning reciever, ECM aswell as a missile approach warning system.

    The klimov RD93 with a maximum output of 96kN gives JF-17 a thrust to weight ratio of 1.It is equipped with Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC) system. The engine provides the fighter with high acceleration and an instantaneous response while consuming less fuel. The engine can be replaced at the airbases within few hours with little logistical inconvenience.

    High number of sorties can be generated due to the single point pressure refuelling system, which reduces turn around time. This aspect is particularly important as it allows an airforce with less aircrafts to continuously keep considerably more fighters in the air, when needed. Another key feature is the markedly low operating cost of JF-17 thus ensuring more flying hours on the machine for pilots to hone their skills.

    JF-17 has the capability to operate from motorways, simple road bases and short improvised airfields thus giving another dimension for the PAF to exploit. The fighter can securely datalink to other fighters, ground centre and AWACS thus giving enhanced situational awareness which is of integral importance in modern day warfare.

    JF-17 is in the process of integrating a long list of weapons systems and pods. PAF has shown great confidence in SD-10A and is using it in the frontline , side by side the state-of-the-art US AIM-120C5. Special importance is being given to the standoff precision strike capability.The fighter can effectively carry out it's mission with an endurance of 3.5 hours, more than 4000kg of weapons load and an extended range of 3000km.

    The production and incorporation of upgrades are occurring simultaneously, thanks to the modular design of the fighter. Another aspect often overlooked is the ability to upgrade the initial batches with new technology in the upcoming years to ensure their continued relevance in future conflicts. Full Operational Clearance may be achieved by the end of 2012.

    Later blocks are aligned to be enhanced versions of the 'already in service' JF-17 block-1. Speculations exist about AESA radars; Forward looking infra red cameras along with Infra red search & track for detecting the target without revealing itself. Other features like In-flight refueling is on the cards for longer range, a modified frontal fuselage to further reduce RCS, more powerful mission computers, greater sensor fusion, improved RWR/ECM, satellite link, multiple launch rails, upgraded engine and a greater use of composites. These future blocks might share some core technology with the J-10b. A two seat trainer is also envisioned.

    JF-17 , once considered as a third generation fighter for merely filling in the numbers , now boasts of state of the art capabilities causing serious concern for adversaries and competing vendors alike. The fighter's substantial growth capability as well as the will and funding for its continued growth and enhancements are critical factors for choosing this weapons system from a historically reliable vendor, China.

    JF-17 thus gives the pilot a non-shattering confidence in the face of its more expensive contemporaries and a unique pride to be one of the select few of the ''THUNDER RIDERS''.


    ----
    *hioutong '' Its flight control includes a Type 634 quadruplex digital FBW in pitch axis and a duplex analog FBW in roll axis'' Two enlarged F/A-18 style LERX are thought to offer higher AOA as wel''
    Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force
    The aircraft is powered by a reliable RD-93 engine which is equipped with Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC) system. PAKISTAN AIR FORCE - Official website
    Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra - jf17.html
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  2. Manticore
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    Manticore SENIOR MODERATOR

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    As this was one of the first articles on weapons systems via defence.pk , it needed to be technically proofread aswell as was needed to be made understandable for a layman at the same time.Input was given to me by najam khan, santro, asim aquil and vcheng upon the presentation of my first draft.
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  3. Syed.Ali.Haider
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    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    I think that links to the relevant sections with technical data would be appropriate to take the discussion forward.

    For example, how do the payload/range parameters compare with the Grippen?
  4. AbhimanyuShrivastav
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    AbhimanyuShrivastav FULL MEMBER

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    shouldnt this be in the JF 17 thread?
  5. Syed.Ali.Haider
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    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    I think OpEd pieces get their own thread for discussion.
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  6. Skull and Bones
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    Skull and Bones ELITE MEMBER

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    Any replacement for the radar, 75km for a 3sq m target is pretty small ranged, barely BVR and 35km in look down mode. And Global Security states the maximum thrust of RD-93 at 86 Kn, not 98 kn.

    Regards.
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  7. Aamir Hussain
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    Aamir Hussain PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    The original specs called to meet the Grifo ranges. I believe it was 120 km. Isee no reason why the Chinese supplied radars would not try to meet those specs.
  8. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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    A few points to be noted...

    The old specs confirm that the range is 75km for 3m2 and 105km for 5m2, often misunderstood for a max range.
    The max range I leave it you to speculate, could easily be well above 150km.

    Now since we got this info, apparently, PAC is supposed to have upgraded it, and I quote.. to an extent to which they are 'very satisfied with it'

    It is superior to the AN/APG-66 variants of the F-16 and shares some qualities of the AN/APG-68v(9)

    As for the 98kN claim....

    this poster claims, 98kN range. Though I can't see why some people don't buy it, this alone isn't what caused me to believe in the 98kN figure.

    [​IMG]

    That alone may not be enough to convince you...

    but here are other pieces of info that suggest the 98kN figure to be true....

    • The fact that PAF chose the RD-93 over the existing WS-13.
      Now the WS-13 is very similar to the RD-93, the only big difference is that the RD-93 is slightly larger and heavier, and performance wise the RD-93 was a little more responsive.
    • That got me thinking... why would PAF choose the RD-93 over the WS-13, at first I had assumed that maybe the Chinese don't have WS-13 production line in order and maybe PAF wants it's JF-17s ASAP (This may be the case, I'm not ruling it out).
    • But then we heard from Chinese Think Tanks and Boss' at CDF that the Chinese had asked for the Russians to improve the RD-93's performance, whcih shouldn't at all be surprising since thee RD-33 has some variants with upgraded thrust, and obviously JF-17 would be underpowered if fitted with the RD-93 which had only 84kN Thrust.
    • Then, when I attended Farnborough airshow, I had the privilege of asking one of the PAF representatives, again I can't remember who... who told me that the TWR was around 1, he specifically said a minimum of 0.95.
    • Now Sqn Ldr Hussain Shaheed said that the TWR was more than 1.01.
    • Then we have the Dubai presentation of 249m/s climb which surpasses the Gripen E/F. Now I suppose you could say that you could get more from the wings then the engine thrust, but the other optimal climb rate is when you burn less fuel and rely more on the wings and less on the engine.
    • And now recently we've had the figure of 4,600kg for external stores of the JF-17, from the original 3,800kg figure established many years ago. I suppose that could be explained by the various airframe modifications through the prototype stage.

    regards,
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  9. Manticore
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    Manticore SENIOR MODERATOR

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    my original article was 3x this one-technically that article did pass but to make it blog worthy it had to be cut down-- its was ''more technical'' particularly in the countermeasures / avionics parts for a layman to understand-- it had a lot of specific aspects that we know / talk about on the forum --- but after some discussions with the op. group i thought that all the info that couldnt be supported by links from a reputable site had to go , as this was the first article and we needed to maintain credibilty of the article--- so radar/aoa/maws/countermeasures range,zone/sd10 comparison/ menouverabilty comparison/self diagnostic mechanism/thrust to wt ratio speculations eventhough very much credible by our standards.. etc all had to go --as some of my sources were purely chinese translations [also in the info pool]---- although it was an informative article , probably would be posted as an introduction to jft if needed --- the comments of our shaheed pilot from fanbourough regarding thrust to wt ratio of greater than 1 [posted by tempest2] were also not included -- i've given an idea regarding the max thrust of the engine as foreign members are bent upon qouting the minimum thrust of the engine as the average thrust

    a lot of data poured into this article is from the jft dubai airshow presentation [pics in info pool thread] , paf site , pac site , huitong -- rest is the general information based on design characteristics

    So basically i tried to provide a comprehensive summary of jft without degrading any other fighter along the way
  10. Syed.Ali.Haider
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    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    The poster claims a range of power outputs of 79 to 98 KN, which means up to a 98 KN maximum thrust, without indicating if that is achieved by certain variants or not, and whether those are installed in the JF-17 or not.

    I think a more robust reference, if available, would be in helpful.
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  11. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz MODERATOR

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    It's a poster about the power plant of the FC-1 with reference to the thrust range.
    There is nothing there to suggest the use of the 98kN variant or the use of a variant that offers any less.

    What leads me to believe it is the info that we've heard about the JF-17, the TWR, max payload and the absence of the WS-13 (not guaranteed because of superior thrust of the RD-93).

    It is unlikely that the 84kN variant could have achieved the specs...
    There's more to suggest that the 98kN variant is used on the JF-17.
  12. Syed.Ali.Haider
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    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    I can accept it as a suggestion, to be accepted as a fact would need more proof than a poster, in my book.
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  13. BATMAN
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    BATMAN ELITE MEMBER

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    ^^This is not court of law!

    Take it or leave it
  14. Syed.Ali.Haider
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    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    I am merely pointing out that only those claims that are backed by tangible proof are credible, specially about a technical subject. Otherwise, they remain unproven claims.

    Establishing factual bases for claims is one of the bedrocks of a mature scientific discussion.
  15. BATMAN
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    BATMAN ELITE MEMBER

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    You simply are here to troll.
    Otherwise, I hope you know how to use internet and find your required info.
    Can you not see the official poster in the picture above? and remember we are not talking about the specifications of a mobile phone.

    Features and development

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